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[Neovre]

I don't think your point was directed in my direction (maybe it was) but IMO reverse grid the whole point is for the faster drivers in back to make the pass, not for the slower drivers to open up a gap and let others pass. Slower drivers start up front and do what they can (legally) to stay in front for as long as they can. And if you truly expect a slower driver to allow a pass to someone 3-4 seconds faster per lap, they will be out of sight in no time. I can see how a faster driver would be frustrated not being "allowed" to make a pass, but a few laps of defensive driving is very beneficial as well. The problem is when the faster drivers are bumping you through the corners and spinning you out (not directed at you).

I agree with most of what you said, but I did not specifically mean to leave a gap for the faster drivers, I'd like to see some dicing too. But some times enough is enough. What is the point when after defending 2 laps you spin off or run off track on your own? Not directed at you but at that point the defending driver would seem like an idiot to the faster driver and that is where the frustration would come for me at least. If you can keep someone3-4 secs faster behind until the checkered flag so be it. Shame on him for not finding a way to pass.

I think I should rephrase "slower driver" as "unsafe driver" in my first reply to wolf.
Just a bit more respect and less ego between all drivers in general would be nice.

 

[Wolfsatz]

Just a bit more respect and less ego between all drivers in general would be nice.

This is what we need! 👍

 

[intoflatlines]

I agree with most of what you said, but I did not specifically mean to leave a gap for the faster drivers, I'd like to see some dicing too. But some times enough is enough. What is the point when after defending 2 laps you spin off or run off track on your own? Not directed at you but at that point the defending driver would seem like an idiot to the faster driver and that is where the frustration would come for me at least. If you can keep someone3-4 secs faster behind until the checkered flag so be it. Shame on him for not finding a way to pass.

I think I should rephrase "slower driver" as "unsafe driver" in my first reply to wolf.
Just a bit more respect and less ego between all drivers in general would be nice.

Fair enough! Definitely, if you end up crashing out, it was not worth it and you seem like an idiot to both the faster driver and yourself. I have firsthand experience from plenty of nights, last night included (although a couple of the crashes were due to contact by aggressive faster drivers)

 

[CCraft]

I agree with most of what you said, but I did not specifically mean to leave a gap for the faster drivers, I'd like to see some dicing too. But some times enough is enough. What is the point when after defending 2 laps you spin off or run off track on your own? Not directed at you but at that point the defending driver would seem like an idiot to the faster driver and that is where the frustration would come for me at least. If you can keep someone3-4 secs faster behind until the checkered flag so be it. Shame on him for not finding a way to pass.

I think I should rephrase "slower driver" as "unsafe driver" in my first reply to wolf.
Just a bit more respect and less ego between all drivers in general would be nice.

I agree with the respect part but me personally on race day I'm gonna defend my position legally of course and if I spin it's because I couldn't handle the pressure I was under or whatever I don't believe it's disrespectful to defend my spot to as best I can I believe it makes me better now if I'm driving unsafe and cause the faster driver to spin out with me not that I try to drive unsafe just a for instance I also believe that's part of racing the other driver should be able to recognize that and decide then to either be patient and wait for the screw up or take the chance too pass and risk me screwing up while he's passing is this wrong to race this way?
EDIT even if I do look like an idiot to some I know I drove to the best of my abilities and am usually happy with myself for trying and not just giving away my position

 

[Mark II]

This should clear it all up: It is the responsibility of the overtaking driver, meaning the car that is attempting to execute the pass, to make sure that the pass is made cleanly and incident free.

 

[CCraft]

Sry for dble post but on the same note I have raced with some of the faster guys in practice and more than a few sometimes seem to race the line they want no matter what even if they know I'm ahead and slower and they may not take into account I may not be as experienced as they are and don't realize what I'm doing is unsafe or that I don't know the braking points just right and when they are being impatient and bumping me entering or exiting a corner intentional or not it screws me up and all I think is wow that was an a hole move so yeah respect for the other drivers for sure but not just the slower guys respecting the faster guys but the other way around too not directed at anyone in particular just something I've noticed a few times

 

[CCraft]

This should clear it all up: It is the responsibility of the overtaking driver, meaning the car that is attempting to execute the pass, to make sure that the pass is made cleanly and incident free.

Yeah what he said lol

 

[CoachMK21]

Just watched this video of a Miata at Sebring and I think it pertains perfectly to our current discussion, especially about the reverse grid start.

 

[intoflatlines]

Just watched this video of a Miata at Sebring and I think it pertains perfectly to our current discussion, especially about the reverse grid start.

Nice video. Is that almost a divebomb at 1:42 though?

 

[chuyler1]

Also be mindful of the draft. It will play head games with faster and slower drivers.

If a driver is behind you, and you aren't following closely behind someone else, that driver behind you can afford to make more mistakes than you and they'll be able to recover and stay on your bumper. If you try to drive away from them by braking later than usual or taking more risks, it will only end poorly for you. Instead, just run your race line or place your car on the track so the other driver must attempt an outside pass instead of running up your inside. If you keep your laps clean, chances are they will make enough mistakes that they cannot set up for the dreaded draft pass.

If you are following someone in their draft and you think you are faster, that may not be the case. You may just be getting that draft bonus allowing you to stay close. Don't assume that a little bit of draft gives you the right to take advantage of another driver. Remember, if you're traveling faster in the draft as you approach a braking point, you probably have to brake earlier to compensate for that additional speed. If you wait for your opponent to brake you'll rear end them if you don't first match speed.

 

[Rallywagon]

First off, if you start a post apologizing for double posting, your doing it wrong...

Mark had it exactly right with the golden rule. It's the passers job to pass and pass clean, not the passies, if you will, job to allow you to pass. Sorry to say it, but that slower gut has every right to defend his position. If you can't cleanl pass, and they aren't being unsafe, then they are defending right. No one as to move for you. Ask a fella we call coach how well that mentality worked for him. In the end, its a competition and people want to win. If you are working on passing a guy for a few laps and you can't pass, good on him, if he loses it and careens off the track, good on you for having the patience to wait them out. But absolutely no one is obligated to make room for you, regardless of your speed compared to theirs. That's part of racing. Period.

 

[CCraft]

Just watched this video of a Miata at Sebring and I think it pertains perfectly to our current discussion, especially about the reverse grid start.

Ooooo some scary traffic there that's pretty cool

 

[turnupdaheat]

From 2002, this is still my favourite "carving through the field" video!

 

[chuyler1]

Speaking of videos, how about a similar lap around Ascari. This will help you identify apexes and fast lines. I haven't driven this weeks car yet but the lines are pretty close to last week's car.

 

[CCraft]

First off, if you start a post apologizing for double posting, your doing it wrong...

Mark had it exactly right with the golden rule. It's the passers job to pass and pass clean, not the passies, if you will, job to allow you to pass. Sorry to say it, but that slower gut has every right to defend his position. If you can't cleanl pass, and they aren't being unsafe, then they are defending right. No one as to move for you. Ask a fella we call coach how well that mentality worked for him. In the end, its a competition and people want to win. If you are working on passing a guy for a few laps and you can't pass, good on him, if he loses it and careens off the track, good on you for having the patience to wait them out. But absolutely no one is obligated to make room for you, regardless of your speed compared to theirs. That's part of racing. Period.

Rally I don't know how to edit and then quote a different post that's what I was gonna do

 

[CoachMK21]

First off, if you start a post apologizing for double posting, your doing it wrong...

Mark had it exactly right with the golden rule. It's the passers job to pass and pass clean, not the passies, if you will, job to allow you to pass. Sorry to say it, but that slower gut has every right to defend his position. If you can't cleanl pass, and they aren't being unsafe, then they are defending right. No one as to move for you. Ask a fella we call coach how well that mentality worked for him. In the end, its a competition and people want to win. If you are working on passing a guy for a few laps and you can't pass, good on him, if he loses it and careens off the track, good on you for having the patience to wait them out. But absolutely no one is obligated to make room for you, regardless of your speed compared to theirs. That's part of racing. Period.

Rally I don't know how to edit and then quote a different post that's what I was gonna do

To edit, press the "Edit" button.

To quote multiple posts, press "Reply" on the first post to reply to, then cut that text. Press "Reply" on the second post to reply to, then paste in the first reply in the text box.

 

[CCraft]

Technologically challenged sry

To edit, press the "Edit" button.

To quote multiple posts, press "Reply" on the first post to reply to, then cut that text. Press "Reply" on the second post to reply to, then paste in the first reply in the text box.

Wow what a pain on mobile lol

 

[Troggy]

From 2002, this is still my favourite "carving through the field" video!

RIP headphone users. Cool video tho.

 

[deaconblues82]

I'm wondering if any of you fast guy's can help me with the break balance on the Honda? Right now it feels like I'm trying to race a Styrofoam packing peanut around a bathtub.

 

[Dragonwhisky]

I'm wondering if any of you fast guy's can help me with the break balance on the Honda? Right now it feels like I'm trying to race a Styrofoam packing peanut around a bathtub.

Keep shifting the brake power to the back. If you're running 5/5 make it 4/6 or 3/7 or 2/8 or 1/9 etc. I've heard some folks will use less overall brake power so they can use more pedal, or more overall brake power so they can use less pedal. Either way, in the case of the Honda, more on the back, a lot more, will help the back end step out and get the stupid thing to rotate.

 

[Wolfsatz]

I'm wondering if any of you fast guy's can help me with the break balance on the Honda? Right now it feels like I'm trying to race a Styrofoam packing peanut around a bathtub.

Break earlier that you are doing now and listen to the tires; try to avoid excessive tire noise. Heavy Throttle will cause the tires to spin without having the desired traction.

IMO, I don't think you get much by changing the BB on this one. You get a lot more by adjusting your racing habits... and leave the rabbits on the field.

I went from high 15s to consistent 10s by just listening to the tips provided HERE and HERE

 

[turnupdaheat]

RIP headphone users.

I suppose I should have put in a warning!

 

[Dragonwhisky]

As Wolf says, throttle control is almost everything in a FWD car. Thing is, if you loose the braking battle going in, your throttle control is fighting that lost battle as well. Get it slowed down, pointed the direction you want it to go, then let that FWD do what it does, which will be rocketing out of corners. Heavy steering + heavy braking or + heavy throttle input = lost time.

 

[deaconblues82]

Thanks @Dragonwhisky and @Wolfsatz. Good advice definitely. I know there's no magical set up that will make up for it feeling like there's no dampening and the front springs seeming weak. More brake in the back, absolutely. And like wolf said, brake early. I do tend to drive it like a slow LMP car and brake in a straight line because the front drops out radically enough on turn in. It doesn't need any more weight on the outside front tire that's for sure. I was wondering if guy's were turning the front brake all the way down or something. I may have to end up putting on my Ayerton Senna race suit and self report right now...

 

[mopar440]

what are good lap times for this week's combos

 

[joe_diben]

Thought this may be relevant. Seems to be a part of our ORL that often gets overlooked.

You must establish substantial overlap with the car ahead before they reach the corner’s turn-in point to have the right to drive up their inside, or to expect them to leave inside room for you. At least the front of your car should be up to the driver’s position in the ahead car. The ahead driver has the right to be fully committed to the racing line of their choice without any interference if there was no substantial overlap before he turned in. The ahead driver must not abruptly change their line through a corner for any reason.

In my experience this point is often overlooked by defending drivers. While I agree that it is totally up to the passing driver to make a clean pass, the defending driver should have the courtesy of realizing when the battle is lost.

 

[Zii1993]

Thought this may be relevant. Seems to be a part of our ORL that often gets overlooked.

You must establish substantial overlap with the car ahead before they reach the corner’s turn-in point to have the right to drive up their inside, or to expect them to leave inside room for you. At least the front of your car should be up to the driver’s position in the ahead car. The ahead driver has the right to be fully committed to the racing line of their choice without any interference if there was no substantial overlap before he turned in. The ahead driver must not abruptly change their line through a corner for any reason.

In my experience this point is often overlooked by defending drivers. While I agree that it is totally up to the passing driver to make a clean pass, the defending driver should have the courtesy of realizing when the battle is lost.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[chuyler1]

what are good lap times for this week's combos

2:10 for Ascari based on comments above (I haven't driven it yet)
2:25 for Spa (based on last week)
2:46 for Cape Ring (based on my own practice session)

 

[Mark II]

quick question- do I need to send a specific host a psn friend request to participate sunday? Just looked at the driver list and didnt see one for d4.

 

[jobyone]

I would love to see people compare there laptimes with stock brake balance and with their modified brake balance.

My bet is the difference would not be large.

I think focusing on getting braking points, entry speed and throttle control would be time better spent. I remember one time when @JazzNine came in to a practice lap when I was running laps at Monza. He saw my time. Laughed and then set a time 10 seconds quicker on his first lap. He then walked me through his lap showing me braking points, what gear to be in and the like. I picked up 6 seconds on my next lap. This was helpful. Would I have gained much time by adjusting my BB? Probably not.

My personal opinion is adjusting the BB is great to pick up those last few tenths. If you are not running consistently fast laps focus on your driving not trying to "fix" the equipment.