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[dsgerbc]

WOW. so far esh and cheeb's setups are SICK. Does anyone play in 3D or have a multiscreen setup? I also have the Sony 3D display but don't use 3D for Sunday. o yea my wheel is on a table and i have a office chair. budget setup.

I tried 3D and it's unplayable online. PSN IDs will try to burn into your subconsciousness. If not for that (and for crappy upscaling of 720 to 1080) I'd be playing in 3D online, depth perception is really nice.

 

[dsgerbc]

Consider this scenario:
There's an incident between me and you in a race. You send me a PM stating such. I respond defending myself. This could dissolve into a shouting match since we both think we're right.

But if we post a video to the thread inviting comments, and everyone agrees with you, then I realize I'm the big tool and maybe others can learn from it, too.

Different people take this differently. Some just take personally every comment that supports the point of view different from their own, quickly get annoyed and quit the league. So what works IRL: a) contact the other driver, if no agreement on who's at fault b) ask steward(s) to review and rule, c) accept the ruling and move on.

 

[Rallywagon]

I actually concur slightly with the whole video idea and have toyed around with doing it, though without a video capture card its not yet feasible. My idea was to do some racing in practice with some traffic, then video what looks clean, and what looks dirty and all that. That way no one is being put out there. I would do actual stuff from our races, and just do black and white so no one is identifiable, but then there are the names to contend with.

 

[Rallywagon]

Hey, thanks everyone who made it out tonight. Had some good fun.

 

[Apmaddock]

Trust me. As one who has been singled out with a video for dirty driving. (It was actually caused by a network issue) You don't want that put on the thread. The video of me unknowingly running through other cars is, to my knowledge, still posted on this thread… twice… and it SUCKS!

I'm not a dirty driver. I just got boned by sub-par internet. I don't know if that makes it suck more or less, but anyone who sees the video and doesn't take time to read the explanation will have a rather biased view of me. Furthermore, waking up Monday, checking the thread, and seeing yourself driving dirtily when you may not have even known it happened, really sucks.

 

[bigbarnesbefast]

Me and DrKronin had sum epic battles last nite in round 3. We were bumper to bumber practically the whole race, it was awsome. But in the first race our braking points entering every corner were waaayy off from one another and i got into his rear end lightly a few times and i apolagize and i told him so last nite after the race. On the second race of round 3 it was me and the DR again running bumber to bumper but we learned eachothers driving styles and braking points and smoothed it all out.. Guess what im trying to say is it was mine and the Dr's first snail race and we learned alot about giving and taking a little bit. Im sorry D3 was aggressive at times handlebar and i totally agree it was. I dont think i was the one causing any of the problems but i Learned AlOT and plan on improving even more next week! But i welcome any constructive critism from any one in SNAIL

 

[M1SS-D3V10US]

Race Stewards Announcement​

There has been protests filed in Div.1, so the final results of the races for 05-13-2012 have been delayed pending the outcome of these protests. The Race Stewards are allowing the drivers a chance to work things out on their own while the Race Stewards have already started to investigate the incidents in question. The Stewards will be ready Tuesday evening to make a final ruling regard the protests in the event the drivers are not able to resolve their differences.

We are working hard to ensure the protests will get resolved quickly so the Div.1 winners will be able to make their prize selections, and then finally, their prize announcements - so all SNAIL members can start to gear up for the races on 05-20-2012. As soon as the incidents have been address the Race Stewards finalize the Race Results and will make a post regarding the incidents and the final outcome.

Thank you for your understanding.

 

[zer05ive]

Consider this scenario:
There's an incident between me and you in a race. You send me a PM stating such. I respond defending myself. This could dissolve into a shouting match since we both think we're right.

But if we post a video to the thread inviting comments, and everyone agrees with you, then I realize I'm the big tool and maybe others can learn from it, too.

Different people take this differently. Some just take personally every comment that supports the point of view different from their own, quickly get annoyed and quit the league. So what works IRL: a) contact the other driver, if no agreement on who's at fault b) ask steward(s) to review and rule, c) accept the ruling and move on.

In my opinion, ^this conversation perfectly encapsulates why following our complaint process is superior to posting a video on the thread and inviting comments.

spooble is 100% correct about the possibility that PM's between two drivers involved in an incident could dissolve into a shouting match. That's exactly why, as sharkie points out in the stewards announcement above, we only allow until Tuesday night for an agreement to be reached between drivers involved in complaint. The whole time the drivers are discussing (or shouting about) the incident, our stewards are busy reviewing and discussing the exact same incident so that they can have a decision ready on Tuesday night.

If the two drivers can't come to an agreement by the deadline, then the stewards will announce their decision and therefore one of the two drivers involved will quickly realize that he's "the big tool". In a nutshell, we get all the benefits of "tool self-awareness" without all of the negative drama associated with a publicly aired war of words for the world to see.

As dsgerbc implied, there's really no way to predict how someone will react to even the most minor level of criticism (especially public criticism). Therefore, it's not a good idea to even allow it. That being said, I openly welcome youtube videos to be posted on the thread to encourage "Let's talk about what went wrong here" learning opportunities. However, the only requirement of such videos is that the driver who posts it has to be the one who's exhibiting the questionable driving! Only under those circumstances could a truly open discussion about the driving occur without the possibility of it escalating into a war of words and competing egos.

 

[dylansan]

The racing was quite fun tonight, I had a blast! (And no connection issues to report, though I didn't last Monday either so it might not mean anything)

But I must say driving the Cobra in the dark on the Nurburgring was an emotional experience. Especially during the free-run when I was alone on the track. It just felt really meaningful, especially since I haven't driven the Cobra much or driven in the dark much.

So, as far as tributes go, tonight was a success.

 

[screaming chief]

Sorry about the no show on sunday night moms day ran over schedule.

 

[spooble]

In a nutshell, we get all the benefits of "tool self-awareness" without all of the negative drama associated with a publicly aired war of words for the world to see.

I understand your point. I'm a "water off a duck's back" kind of guy... not much bothers me, but I know that everyone's not like that. I'm just afraid that "grey area" driving won't get reported, and therefore won't get corrected.

However, the only requirement of such videos is that the driver who posts it has to be the one who's exhibiting the questionable driving!

I think this is good, but I would take it a step further. How about keeping a list of those drivers who seek constructive criticism and allow others to post video of them? Place my name at the top! I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like to be told when I'm toeing the line. If nobody points it out, how will I know when I've done something wrong?

 

[Rallywagon]

Lol. OK. For now on spoobles the fall guy. If someone posts a video, spooble is exhibit a! I kid, I kid. If there was a way to remove names easily, then I would really be all for this. But. I can also attest to how well it doesn't work as well. My second race in the league, bowler and I had a run in with each other. Videow were posted, we argued and nothing really was resolved. Luckily we were adult enough to let it drop and move on to better racing. But it got heated, and I think we both felt like we were treading on egg shells the next race Sunday whenever we were next to each other.

 

[spooble]

So the fact that you both drove more cleanly after video was posted is your evidence that it DOESN'T work??

I do see how it could "go wrong" in public, though, but I do like the idea of being able to post your own dirtiness... and that of those who want it pointed out.

 

[Rallywagon]

No, I mean a lot of heated words were exchanged on the forum and nothing was resolved from it. we both had some hard feelings and we both wanted to take a dig at each other the next race is what I mean. Posting the video didn't accomplish anything outside of that. We just happened to both be mature enough to move past it. I'm not saying its anyone here, but my general experience in life is that a lot of people aren't that mature, add to it the fact that this is a game and online experience and no ones really accountable and everyone's fairly anonymous and posting a call out video can get quite messy on the threads and in the races fast. This is especially true if the called out doesnt feel they were in the wrong. Not everyone eats humble pie.

 

[AJKVail]

Thanks zero.
I vote 1

 

[dsgerbc]

My idea was to do some racing in practice with some traffic, then video what looks clean, and what looks dirty and all that. That way no one is being put out there.

This could be useful. Here's a sample. But then again - it will clutter the OP.

 

[kcheeb]

So the fact that you both drove more cleanly after video was posted is your evidence that it DOESN'T work??

I know you've got the big grin going but, I believe this would have happened anyway and likely been a lot smoother if the complaint process had been in place back then. I do remember the incident.

I do see how it could "go wrong" in public, though, but I do like the idea of being able to posting your own dirtiness... and that of those who want it pointed out.

I prefer the idea of putting together a group of examples of how to do it and how not to do it. I have numerous examples from all three divisions of how to pass and how not to pass and mistakes in general. I have the capability of doing that, it just may take some time for me to get it done.

 

[dvdoughboy]

Just noticed that this thread is about to become the top posted thread (and with posts that are mostly good and not just to get the post count up).

Way to go guys on keeping this league great

 

[spooble]

Those are excellent, dsg! Thanks for the link!

 

[Rallywagon]

I agree for the most part. I think the passing and the bump drafting are perfect examples, except, I have one qualm with the bump draft. after a bit of bump drafting, I'm going to go for the pass. Not like in the example, I wouldn't wait until after the brake point. But All the same. Why would I not? My job isnt to let the other driver get set. its to pass in a clean manner. So probably half way down the straight I would brake off and start attacking up the inside. I wouldnt back off at the corner Like they did. just saying.

 

[dsgerbc]

If you're set on passing on the straight - why bump-draft at all? That negates your speed advantage. I'd rather pass/get passed in the middle of the straight so that both drivers can enter the turn using good line.

I gave the link as an example of non-personal videos that could be useful, every group (and every member within the grould) usually has their own definitions of what's considered acceptable. So I'm saying that the stewards/other willing bodies here could get together and do the version they think is acceptable here and post those for discussion. I could sure benefit from those. I've been driving with people who consider anything that does not violate OLR acceptable (i.e. a dive to the inside from pretty far back is okay as long as you've got substantial overlap at the usual turn-in point) and with groups that informally consider that one only gets the rights to the inside if the overlap is established before the _braking_ point. Would be nice to see what's acceptable here.

 

[kcheeb]

Also, please make sure the driver list is up to date. Some PSN IDs aren't the same as GTPlanet IDs and I'd hate to have PMs sent to the wrong people.

I'm pretty sure the drivers list is up to date with respect to GTP ID's / PSN ID's. At least with respect to the PSN ID the GTP ID has listed.

If there are any that are not correct, pm me and I'll get it sorted.

thanks

 

[Rallywagon]

Not all straights are created equal. on a particularly long straight, you stand the chance of getting repassed if you pass to early. of course bump drafting may not be the best solution. Really, I guess I agree, why even bump draft to begin with if your not racing on an oval.

 

[Apmaddock]

I've been driving with people who consider anything that does not violate OLR acceptable (i.e. a dive to the inside from pretty far back is okay as long as you've got substantial overlap at the usual turn-in point) and with groups that informally consider that one only gets the rights to the inside if the overlap is established before the _braking_ point. Would be nice to see what's acceptable here.

This is one point that I have a hard time with, too. If Driver A is in front but brakes really early, does Driver B, in back and inside, have to wait through the turn?

Dive-bombing is one thing, but if Driver B can hold the inside and keep away from contact by the turn-in point, where's the harm? Especially if Driver A really was braking excessively early.

As of now we go by full GTP OLR to keep things simple.

And good videos, by the way.

 

[esh]

I agree for the most part. I think the passing and the bump drafting are perfect examples, except, I have one qualm with the bump draft. after a bit of bump drafting, I'm going to go for the pass. Not like in the example, I wouldn't wait until after the brake point. But All the same. Why would I not? My job isnt to let the other driver get set. its to pass in a clean manner. So probably half way down the straight I would brake off and start attacking up the inside. I wouldnt back off at the corner Like they did. just saying.

I would. I use the bump draft to separate from the pack, especially if there's points to consider and I need to place in front of someone behind me. It also is easier to focus on the car in front of you when you don't have others breathing down your neck when the time does come to pass. Of course, that doesn't always work out in the long run. It really depends on the driver you have in front of you if you chose to stay behind them.

 

[Rallywagon]

Braking "excessively" early is a bad idea, as in the OLR, it could be considered brake checking. I have to admit though that I struggle with this too, not the braking early, but rather, diving inside if someones brake points are sooner then mine. rally, in the right line, its the only place someone in the back has to go since the lead driver should be on the outside of the corner. I think though it depends on one make point though. if you aren't already in a position to pass (IE. your way back, like a car length at least) then you have no rights, but if your battling for position (bumper to bumper, or there abouts) then it was their mistake to brake to early and it should be an error that can be capitalized on, so long as its done clean and safe. However, if you've already made it to the turn in point and your not a good ways in on the lead driver, then I feel you should concede the corner.

 

[zer05ive]

Sorry about the no show on sunday night moms day ran over schedule.

Thanks for letting us know. Late notice (or in this case really late notice) is always better than no notice at all.

 

[esh]

This is one point that I have a hard time with, too. If Driver A is in front but brakes really early, does Driver B, in back and inside, have to wait through the turn?

Dive-bombing is one thing, but if Driver B can hold the inside and keep away from contact by the turn-in point, where's the harm? Especially if Driver A really was braking excessively early.

As of now we go by full GTP OLR to keep things simple.

And good videos, by the way.

Sure but the odds of the early brake-ee leaving room at turn-in are pretty slim. This has happened to me with a particular driver in D1 multiple times and he/she has been fairly lucky each time and not made contact or very little contact. But I think it really is luck as I don't often miss my braking points. I would even consider it borderline dive-bombing but haven't yet had major reason to complain.

 

[Vol Jbolaz]

I know I'm not a great driver, but there have been times when I will try to bump draft the guy infront of me on a non-oval course. My "rules of engagement" are pretty easy.

• Can I pass this car and make it stick.
• If I were close enough to the next car, do I think I'm fast enough to pass and make it stick.
• Am I too far away from the next car?

Basically, passing this car doesn't do me a lot of good if I have to run down the next car by myself. So I'll bump draft this car until we are both closer, then pass each of them.

I try to only bump at the beginning of the straight. I would hate to bump at the end and have the person approach the corner going way too fast and miss their brake zones. Then I'm back to having to chase down the next car by myself.

 

[dsgerbc]

Dive-bombing is one thing, but if Driver B can hold the inside and keep away from contact by the turn-in point, where's the harm?

Harm is in slowing both down by quite a bit. The corners that are the most inviting for that kind of dash to the inside, even if skillfully done, are slow corners with late braking, wide entry, and very late apex, often followed by flat-out stretches. Leaving 1-2 cars wide space on the inside costs a ton of time.

Anyway, I can see justification for lots of things, especially when I'm doing it , all I'm saying that video clarifying what's acceptable and expected could be useful.