◆ SNAIL [Spec] Racing - Join now to win a Digit Racing EDGE Masterclass enrollment!!Open
- Thread starter zer05ive
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- 1,694
- ontario
- USERID_77a23
- 7,689
- Michigan
- Rallywgn81
Nice bit of kit there DW. Is the wife a gamer to?
- 4,499
- Tampa, Fl
- Ice_Warden
Nice looking rig. I love building new rigs but I don't do it very often because I HATE reinstalling everything and transferring the data.
That being said, I am due but I will definitely build a mATX case instead of the old school towers.
- 2,857
- Brockport
- CoachMK21
Yea, yea, yea.
- 7,689
- Michigan
- Rallywgn81
- 155
- Vienna, Austria
- GamingPete
- 7,689
- Michigan
- Rallywgn81
I'm guessing there is two fans, one to draw in air and one to blow it out.
- 155
- Vienna, Austria
- GamingPete
oh ok, i didnt have one like that yet,
i usually put them in so the cables that come out of the powersupply are in the "background" and not in the "front"
if that makes any sense.
i always thought thats the correct way because that way its a clean and neat cable managment job aswell
Dragonwhisky
Premium
- 6,952
- the land of green, hills, rocks & whiskey
- Dragonwhisky
Not really. We use to play some WoW together several years ago. Her old fire sale Optiplex 745 is dying and she asked if I would build her one. I said sure. Then outsourced the whole project to that friend of mine you see in one of the pictures, gave him a budget, which he busted every so slightly, and asked him to come over and put it all together. I've built more computers for myself and friends than I can easily count and wasn't really interested in building another, so I asked him to come over and put it all together. Hindsight is indicating I should've done the job myself however.
Can't say I'm a fan of rebuilding OSes and software suite installs either. This one is on its second OS install already. Dude went nuts installing all the cool toys he thought are great things to have and it borked on him. So he started the reload and I'm finishing it up and will carry on after that.
I think you may be right. I tried to keep my nose out of it while he was assembling the parts so it didn't occur to me when I did the cable management routing that it might have been ass backwards. I will be taking a closer look at that as soon as this round of Windows Updates finish and can shut the thing down. It would seem that old saw "if you want something done "right"...." might just be more true than anyone really thinks.
So far as I can tell, the PS only has the one fan and if it's pulling air in from right below the MB that seemeth to me incorrect too. Like I said, I'll be putting it back on the bench and opening it up to make adjustments if I think they are called for. Doesn't look like I'll be jumping in to play GT6 after all.
- 155
- Vienna, Austria
- GamingPete
Round 1 picture by @TomMang_68
Round 2 and 3 pictures by @Wolfsatz
i didnt even noticed we crossed 20 weeks with last weeks banners
Round 2 and 3 pictures by @Wolfsatz
i didnt even noticed we crossed 20 weeks with last weeks banners
- 4,499
- Tampa, Fl
- Ice_Warden
@Rallywagon
Lots of really cool stuff for mATX. The mobo are just as powerful except you might lose a couple of usb slots and a couple of internal drive slots due to the smaller size.
@Dragonwhisky
That PS is mounted perfectly. If it faces down the fan can't flow air through the limited space under the case and the power cables would be on the same side as the mobo which might create some cable management and mobo mounting issues.
Lots of really cool stuff for mATX. The mobo are just as powerful except you might lose a couple of usb slots and a couple of internal drive slots due to the smaller size.
@Dragonwhisky
That PS is mounted perfectly. If it faces down the fan can't flow air through the limited space under the case and the power cables would be on the same side as the mobo which might create some cable management and mobo mounting issues.
- 155
- Vienna, Austria
- GamingPete
usually modern cases have rather "big" standoff as seen on his pictures
its one of those cases that has holes in the bottom and a big gap between the floor
modern power supplys usually suck in air and blow them out the back,
the way it is on the pictures the psu sucks in warm air from above (graphicscard, etc)
the only way i would mount it with the fan up is when i put it on a carpet, or something similar with fusses and stuff, as that might create more heat / dirt than sucking from inside the case
but on wood or similar flat and clean surfaces, i would mount it to suck from the bottom
also cable managment is better if the cables come out in the back and not in the front
as its the shortest way to put them trough the cable holes in the Case and hide them
,there should be no conflicts with motherboards as these parts are all standardized
edit:
i just noticed it actually stands on carpet,
maybe not so wrong to have it mounted the way it is after all.
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- 7,689
- Michigan
- Rallywgn81
I nay say that Joe. The reason you pull in from the bottom is fresh air, the ambient temp inside of the case is going the be hotter from the CPU, graphics card and other bits.
Ninja'd! GG Pete.
Anyway, what's going on tonight? About to set up and hop on.
Ninja'd! GG Pete.
Anyway, what's going on tonight? About to set up and hop on.
- 4,499
- Tampa, Fl
- Ice_Warden
There is a big vent and fan that you see and a vent out the back of the PSU. The fan pulls air in and shoots it out the back of the PSU. It pulls warm air out of the case and pushes it out the back.
Edit and did a bit of research. Apparently there is no absolute right way as the fan on the PSU doesn't spin very fast. There are hardcore gamers and overclockers that do it one way and the other.
They say the best way to cool it is to make sure all your fans are blowing the air through the case in the same direction though. This way they don't fight each other. I always have my top case fan blowing down, and the PSU fan mounted upwards towards the CPU. It pulls air downward and out the back of the case.
I have built probably a hundred rigs and have NEVER mounted the PSU where the fan does not assist in cooling the computer. If you mount it with the fan facing down then the PSU fan does nothing for air flow in the case. It would pull the air from the bottom of the case and shoot it out the back...which does nothing.
Edit and did a bit of research. Apparently there is no absolute right way as the fan on the PSU doesn't spin very fast. There are hardcore gamers and overclockers that do it one way and the other.
They say the best way to cool it is to make sure all your fans are blowing the air through the case in the same direction though. This way they don't fight each other. I always have my top case fan blowing down, and the PSU fan mounted upwards towards the CPU. It pulls air downward and out the back of the case.
I have built probably a hundred rigs and have NEVER mounted the PSU where the fan does not assist in cooling the computer. If you mount it with the fan facing down then the PSU fan does nothing for air flow in the case. It would pull the air from the bottom of the case and shoot it out the back...which does nothing.
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- 7,689
- Michigan
- Rallywgn81
The point is to cool the PSU, not pull hot air through it.
- 155
- Vienna, Austria
- GamingPete
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- BustedFoSho
- Han Cholo702
- 4,499
- Tampa, Fl
- Ice_Warden
Ok. Go read some sites like tomshardware or overclockers and you will see experts doing it either way. So arguing here is pointless. I know how I have always done it for years and it works perfectly. Others on these websites agree...but some mount it the other way. So I see no concensus and I like my logic so I will continue mounting it where the fan aids in cooling the case.
If you run the fans properly, the air in the case is not "hot" and the PSU components are not sensitive to heat like the components on the mobo.
- 4,499
- Tampa, Fl
- Ice_Warden
Think about air flow dynamics for a second. Think about what each fan in the computer is doing. All you want is a good flow of air from one side to the other. The CPU fan is pushing down toward the mobo so that doesn't help air flow in a particular direction. The vid card fans blow down toward their respective card so that doesn't help air flow. The top case fan can go either way. The side panel may or may not have a fan. You have a front fan and a back fan which work together easily. And the PSU has a fan.
I prefer to have the fan in the PSU and the top case fan work together to move cool air in, across the system and pulled out the back.
If you do it your way, you have a fan at the top pulling air out but you have no fan at the bottom to help bring cool air in. Your PSU fan isn't bringing air into the case.
Anyways, do it how you want. I've been building for 25 years and I know what works for all the systems I've built.
DesertPenguin09
(Banned)
- 7,398
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- DesertPenguin09
I sure hope you're in Division 6
- 155
- Vienna, Austria
- GamingPete
i actually dont have a fan on my top its just vent holes there, i could mount one there, but its not really neccessary temps wise for me.
my current setups is a 200mm front intake on the bottom and a fan on the upper part of the case that pulls the air out to the back
my psu is mounted with its fan facing to the bottom to get its "own" air flow going,
this way it doesnt interfere with the airflow of the case
(to be specific, with the graphics card)
if i mount the psu with its fan up the psu competes with my GTX970 for air
the psu would suck down air and the card sucks the same air up, that makes no sense to me.
this wouldnt be a problem with something like a obsidian 800 or 900D or even the cheaper HAF X case
but on smaller cases the psu fan would be pretty close to the graphics fan/s
youve been bulding pc´s when i wasnt even born lol, im 24, impressive.
i only built a couple for me and my relatives, but nothing major like a business or anything.
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- 4,499
- Tampa, Fl
- Ice_Warden
I did some more research because this has piqued my interest 
I went on to a few computer enthusiast sites like tomshardware and anandtech to see their official builds (gaming, budget, high end etc). It's almost half and half. It seems more dependent on cable routing than anything. So reading even more and apparently the PSU fan doesn't flow enough air to effectively assist in case cooling either way. The case fans spin faster and blow harder so those guys really do the bulk of the work. Apparently the big plus for having the PSU fan mounted up is that it gets filtered air from inside the case and would therefore not draw dusty air from outside the case into the PSU itself.
So...do what makes you feel good I guess
I went on to a few computer enthusiast sites like tomshardware and anandtech to see their official builds (gaming, budget, high end etc). It's almost half and half. It seems more dependent on cable routing than anything. So reading even more and apparently the PSU fan doesn't flow enough air to effectively assist in case cooling either way. The case fans spin faster and blow harder so those guys really do the bulk of the work. Apparently the big plus for having the PSU fan mounted up is that it gets filtered air from inside the case and would therefore not draw dusty air from outside the case into the PSU itself.So...do what makes you feel good I guess
- 7,689
- Michigan
- Rallywgn81
I have a top mount, one on the top of the back, these two draw out, I have one on the side of the case that blows in on the processor and the graphics card. Fans on both those, and then the PSU. I have room for a couple more to in the case, but don't have a need for that much air flow. I too have been building PC's for years, not 25 but close to 20. I've always pulled up and out. But there are always more than one way to fry an egg.
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- 155
- Vienna, Austria
- GamingPete
Yea, i think aslong as you dont glue your psu onto the cpu, youre gonna be safe either way lol.
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- RacingChamp30
I am hosting an endurance race in CMBeals's room. Racing at Ascari for 2 hours in the Honda CR-Z touring car. Room number is 1472-4711-0038-4892-4828
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- ExoSphere64
The following “story” may be intimidating (read TLDR) to some, so, some words of caution are in order. If you’re addicted to clicking links, be advised, this rabbit hole goes deep and if you don’t carry some rope, or at least some seeds to mark your path, you could very well get lost and be late to Sunday’s racing. You may even have to move forward or go back in the posts to be able to obtain the context in which some of the links take you. If you’re sublimely uninterested in how you came to be in this league, scroll to the bottom and move on.
Three years ago, on this day, at 11:44PM, Eastern Daylight Savings time (-5GMT), this thread, and the Sunday Night America Intermediate League, was opened for business. This post is a tribute to the first year SNAIL breathed and will illustrate how it began as an idea, and much like an infant of any species, grew and evolved, sometimes gracefully, other times painfully. The idea was born of a small group of people wanting a place where they could gather and compete with others of a like mind and similar skill level, to test themselves against each other, using the virtual racing world known as Gran Turismo 5.
A copy of the very first version of the Original Post may have been lost in the smoke of tires and the cloud of dust when the first night’s races were held, 18 December 2011. Here is an example
View attachment 272573
of what that post might have looked like. Those first weeks of racing were held in 1 division as 3 races each, using 3 different combinations of cars and tracks, completed in the space of 2 hours and tuning, while limited in spirit, was allowed. Tires being used were no less than racing grade for all cars.
It wasn’t long before the future Grand Master Data Wizard @kcheeb joined. @Vol Jbolaz and kcheeb authored almost every data collection effort and automated process for that data, we currently use. Less than a month later, a custom of generosity and assistance was began, with the founding father’s saved game data the loss. This habit of generosity would extend to not only catastrophic losses but also to helping those in need of assistance obtaining DLC, passing out cars, paints and gear, instruction on not only driving, but also how to use certain game operations to enhance participation efficiency. During this same time, it was suggested the league go to tuning prohibited races and was embraced in short order. A week later it was decided to implement a multi-divisional structure.
Certain League members were hosting other events during the week and a schedule of those opportunities was published. These events expanded appeal and gave some relief to the more structured Sunday League night. To maintain the balance and core ideals of the league, now with 2 divisions, Promotion and Relegation was created to ensure drivers would be with others of similar skill levels. At practically the same time, a tire specification change was suggested and discussion followed.
As many of you know, the second post of this thread holds the information of what will be raced and where it will be raced. Some of you have also come to realize it’s now regarded as one of the fish slappable questions that can be asked here. How many of you know that question has been asked from almost the very beginning of SNAIL? It’s not the only “fishy” question asked and, one long time member might have been the first to ask one of the others. To be fair, it was really early in development and might still have been unclear what could be done under the new conditions for racing. He still asked it though. He got an answer but I wonder if someone will retroactively toss a fish for that? Who wants to guess how many times either of those questions was asked in the last 3 years? I don’t know. It’s been more than can be conveniently counted though.
It seemed, during the early months of SNAIL, not a week went by without something being changed about how the league operated. Whispers began of needing a 3rd Division. Google docs was chosen to collect race data. The race format was changed to what we enjoy to this day. An early age pole was taken. The “Golden Rule” that guides us all in our on track endeavors was published as policy. Near the end of February, on the bissextile day of the year, the Intermediate part in SNAIL, was changed to reflect the dynamic nature of the league.
The first week of March our founder made the statement, buried amongst other comments on other issues, and could be compared to the legendary, and apparently untrue, prediction of an industry giant regarding computer memory requirements, that we would never need more than 3 divisions. Sweet spot indeed. A differing, and perhaps prophetic, opinion was registered. Our founder is an erstwhile fellow and honestly and tirelessly works to be sure we all have the best racing anywhere, under the Gran Turismo umbrella. He did however seem to have a few blind spots when it comes to just how popular his “child” would become. Some may find this next part just a little offensive but, it’s been written, where, I’ve forgotten, that “God gives the business to people who say “never”.” He also seems to be adamantly opposed to proofing his posts and correcting those small typos that, in most cases were innocuous in nature, but, to the grammatically pedantic, jarring to read . Be that as it may, he continued, with the help of many others, to nurture and adapt the league to improve its appeal and efficiency.
The middle of March saw the first of many results posts and it included a report of penalties assessed and who was promoted and relegated for the following week along with the activation of Division 3. Promotion and relegation was done on a weekly basis and there were no month long season championships at that time. The first race statistics are posted soon after and, who remembers this, at the time containing less than 40 names, soon to become epic, drivers list?
The second half of March saw the introduction of prizes with real world value. Active Stewardship came up and the first volunteer made their intent known and was accepted as such. Prior to this it appeared that OLR infractions were primarily settled by the drivers involved discussing the infraction, with zer05ive and kcheeb as mediators, and accepting full race disqualifications or no penalty. After this, suggestions for setting the in game penalties off and creating a steward corps were made. The end of March was marked by a rebuff to comments expressing opinions on the suitability of a particular winner’s pick. Perhaps someday, SNAIL will grow away from the need for this type of “discussion”. Driver aids were also allowed, in one division, after some discussion. A self proclaimed cyborg comments, in third person, regarding the treatment of deceased equines in the Halls of SNAIL.
April began with a seed that sprouted into the longest running SNAIL series, outside of the Sunday night event. Consistent car color suggestion is put forth and the dibs on colors start rolling in. This effort results in a Car Color “Chart” being produced to help track who picked what color and when. The Saturday SPEC series is launched, and a new “SNAIL” is born a few days later. The formation of the Steward Corps is begun. The first Race Modified car is chosen to race. This is followed quickly by Snails claiming numbers and a policy to keep it from getting nutso. Up to this point Vol Jbolaz and kcheeb have been managing the data fairly comfortably (should they be getting some retroactive $hells?) but, in an effort to foster the “many hands make light work” culture, the Data Specialists Corps starts looking for volunteers. The TEAM SNAIL roster is posted and was edited almost weekly before being folded into a sheet in the main results google doc, where it continues to be edited on a weekly basis. The first time a separate post was made detailing incident reporting instructions. It was edited several times, as Stewards assignments changed, and now rests elsewhere in the thread. Tire rules were changed and published, once again. Vol Jbolaz midwife’s a new points system in, after a round of discussion. The founder cuts the cord and it begins to learn. The crowds go wild and cheer. A question was asked for more data and the OI, not to be confused with AI, popped a circuit board, and another OI said, after a quick fictional google translation, “What? Didn’t look like you were eating that.” Apparently OIs be hungry creatures. April was a busy month and it was ushered out with one more item laid upon the altar of change, weekly Prize Distribution. Before this, prizes were awarded to the top 3 scoring drivers in D1. A remark is made in the middle of all this marveling at how “huge” the thread has become. If @esh thought that was big…
In May the penalties off vote had been settled some time ago but, it was never really settled. Until recently that is. We all know how broken and inconsistent the in game penalty system was in GT5 and GT6 was no different in this regard. It’s taken over 2 years with two game versions, being brought up several times, argued about over and over, until we finally threw one of the worst pieces of coding found in Gran Turismo out and relied solely on our member players to report, and the Steward Corps to determine if a penalty should be assessed. May also brought the introduction of DLC tracks being allowed for prize winners to choose. The list of prizes the winner of Prize C could choose was published. Someone saw fit to remind everyone who the “Dad” is here. Carroll Shelby had passed away and SNAIL hosted a memorial event in his honor. Some reasons why incident discussion is not allowed in this thread, you may have to read back some to gain the full context of the discussion. May was sent off with the opening of a SNAIL banner competition.
June seemed to be a fairly quiet month but many things seem to have been going on “behind the scenes” as it were, and the SNAIL OLR was published as a self contained document. It would be revised almost a year later. The penalty system was rebuilt. Promotion and Relegation practices were revised. A cry was heard however, for a system to help place new drivers in a division more suited to their skill level and a live horse was chased around. Prior to our current system, which began development here, new drivers were all dropped into Division 3 and promoted up, if warranted, after their first week of racing. The prize distribution methods gets a booster shot. Monthly seasons are suggested possibly again, mainly as a way to even out the spikes in P&R cycles.
More major changes are hinted at in July. Was there ever a week then that didn’t have something about SNAIL Racing being changed? A cyborg notices some possible cloning occurring and others take notice. The driver placement Time Trial is developed and put in to production and existing Snails are asked to provide baseline numbers to work with. Those changes hinted at earlier are solidified and enacted. In the meantime, an effort was put forth to expose the legitimate threat of evil track side bunnies, dangerously distracting drivers with their deceptively cute appearances. Oh look, bunnies!
The instructions for completing the Time Trial are posted and one of the Nostradamus impersonators in our midst speaks true. The founder, who once thought 3 divisions would be all SNAIL would ever need, swallows hard and says a 4th is coming. This post was the first to show 4 divisions of drivers and was updated almost daily until January 12, 2014, where it shows 7 divisions and a crazy long list of come and gone players. Shortly after that, whispers of a 5th division were heard and a post showing the current record of Snails raced in one night. Weekly prize distribution is opened, once again, for discussion. A future champion signs up and the most “mature” SNAIL, at the tender age of 71? shortly after. The end of July spots Division 5 raising its head and sniffing for some Snails to nibble on. It doesn’t take long for the olfactory senses to find its prey. In that same post, zer05ive thumbs his nose at the fates and not only says never, but tosses a couple "evers" in there, just for spite. You’d think he’d have learned by now. I think this might have already been mentioned earlier, but it would seem our erstwhile leader is a glutton for punishment. The words “final” and “permanent” seem to have enraged the cosmic forces. Three times man?. You were just asking for it.
August began with another record setting night, where 50 drivers hit the track, across 5 divisions. SNAIL would stabilize at 5 Divisions for some time, at least through the end of its first year anyway. I don’t recall when a sixth division was added but I think it was after GT6 released, over a year later. That was another epically hectic time for SNAIL, which tripled in population from 3 divisions to 9, in less than 3 months, not only smashing the record above, but utterly obliterating it with over 100 drivers on track in one night. Tire specifications were brought up for who counted how many times, and the thread sailed past 10,000 posts, which a troll nabbed from nowhere, but got snatched away after some thread maintenance had been done and a much more deserving post got that coveted number. The tire specification model is re-worked to differentiate between street and race/tuner cars. It would undergo one last modification to define tuner car’s status more precisely. @zer05ive “Your inbox is full”. This became a regular theme, until GTPlanet moved to its current forum software platform. For the first time, Division Season Champions are awarded SNAIL T-shirts.
A Good Race Craft Award is announced in September. That next tire specification modification hits the press and a Technical Director position is called for. September saw the very first public visit of a GTP Moderator. A dubious honor to be sure. Once more, tire specifications are put under the microscope, but nothing of major interest is found.
I would dearly like someone to tell me where the waiting list, this post purports exists, actually is? I’m guessing it never got built and over 60 drivers hit the track the following Sunday. The first recipients of the Good Race Craft awards are announced and shown what they’ve won. A marker for how fast this thread moves was posted. By today’s standard of 100.1 posts a day, annually, that was slow by almost half, at 51.9.
November found the Last Chance List being added to the Penalty Guidelines as an additional deterrent for repeat OLR violators. Strange, how time changes things. Huge doesn’t begin to describe this thread. Another Weekly prize distribution discussion is opened. A staple of our monthly championships has become the Race of Champions. Who remembers when it was first suggested? DLC tracks have been allowed for months by now but DLC cars will now be allowed for Weekly Prize winners to choose.
December was a fairly stable time for SNAIL and the last thing the first year of SNAIL brought was a recurring item throughout the first year and subsequent years. Can anyone guess what it is? Okay, not waiting for all the guesses to be posted. In game penalties are once again asked to be turned off. This time, for Division 1 only. Discussion ensued over the course of the next week or so, as is SNAIL’s habit, and it was eventually decided that now was not the time to shut down the in game penalty system. It would be eventually and, I think, we’re all becoming better drivers for it.
A few fun facts regarding this little corner of the internet Snails call home.
The first year daily post average was 51.9 with 18,949 posts.
The second year daily average was 59.8 covering 21,863 posts.
This third year marks almost double those numbers with a 100.1 daily average with over 36,559 posts.
The GTPlanet Site founder’s first public visit to the room he set aside for us was on October 9th 2014. It only took 71,000+ posts before he stuck his head in the door. Doesn’t mean he hasn’t peered through a window from time to time.
While not possibly fact, I would bet, the number of photo bombs set off in this thread and total number of pictures scattered by those bombs, exceeds the number of pictures posted in almost every other thread, dedicated to pictures, combined.
For those of you who followed my breadcrumbs on this little journey, lift a glass and have a sip. I thank you for taking the time and hope you got to the crossroads where it paused, enlightened in some regard in how SNAIL came to be where it is today.
Sincerely,
Dragonwhisky
Afterword: If anyone discovers any errors and omissions in the above wall of text, I apologize now. This was a monumental task I set myself a few months ago and I let the majority of the research slide until this past week. I may have missed some things. Road on!
Holy 🤬 cow!! Do any of you realize just how awesome this post is? It is one thing to tell the story of SNAIL. It is MUCH more epic when you include over 100 hyperlinks. Every link goes back to the past and illustrates more than just talking about it. Mondays off are usually kind of dull so I am looking forward to clicking every single one. The "old days" were pretty damn cool. I think everyone should follow them all. Witness the history of why we are all here. If you have been here awhile or if you are new. Some need to remember and some need to learn why this group is so special. Very nice work @Dragonwhisky ... Your "forum-fu" would make @zer05ive proud!
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