◆ SNAIL [Spec] Racing - Join now to win a Digit Racing EDGE Masterclass enrollment!!Open

[Mrjones]

You host spec rooms often, you should add me I would join.
I'm with you, I would say sports soft maybe for race cars above 550pp and racing hards for 600pp+.

Ya i do usually during the week. Welsh has been there, he knows whats up, lol:tup:. Only have it open to 10 ppl max tho. but ya you should come out some time. I get some of the fastest ppl in N/A showing up, they'll teach you a thing or two. lol, they certainly showed me. Made me the clean fast racer i am today:tup:

 

[IceWarden]

Ya i do usually during the week. Welsh has been there, he knows whats up, lol:tup:. Only have it open to 10 ppl max tho. but ya you should come out some time. I get some of the fastest ppl in N/A showing up, they'll teach you a thing or two. lol, they certainly showed me. Made me the clean fast racer i am today:tup:

I usually show up and school you guys LOL...not

Good rooms though...nice and competitive. And it's hard for you to rage quit when you are the host

 

[Apmaddock]

Sorry to bring back an "old" post, but I have to respond...

I have 200+ break-in miles on each car. Somethings not right there.

You did change the oil after breaking them in, right?

it would have been nice to get more then 1 time around the track for qualifying.

Why did you have one qualifying lap? Did you forget to get on the track? Did you not show up on time?

Races are set to be just over 10 minutes long. Qualifying time is 10 minutes. Therefore, you should be able to get in [Race Laps] - 1 in during qualifying. Subtract one for the out lap and you should have been able to get three hot laps in for the first two rounds and five for the last.

 

[Mrjones]

Do you have links?

After a lot of searching, yes i found one of them. Search "GT5 Game Breaking Online Flaw". Its seems that PD has addressed it somewhat. You have to search pretty deep in the thread but there are discussions about the differences between open lobbies & lounges.

 

[DrKronin]

OK, again what i am saying get some of your friends. Run a 5-6 lap race with 12 or more ppl with mics & wheels in a lounge then do the exact same thing in a open lobby and look at the discrepancies in the lap times.

Ok, I wasn't going to say anything, but you've mentioned this twice, so here it is:

Wheels make exactly zero difference to network performance. They are abstracted in exactly the same way as a controller to an "input device" long before interacting with the network, and except for the tiny amount of device-specific code (usually called a "driver") responsible for this abstraction, nothing in GT5 knows the difference between one input device and another.

 

[Mrjones]

Ok, I wasn't going to say anything, but you've mentioned this twice, so here it is:

Wheels make exactly zero difference to network performance. They are abstracted in exactly the same way as a controller to an "input device" long before interacting with the network, and except for the tiny amount of device-specific code (usually called a "driver") responsible for this abstraction, nothing in GT5 knows the difference between one input device and another.

Well, maybe you should read the thread in my post above.

 

[dabneyd]

After a lot of searching, yes i found one of them. Search "GT5 Game Breaking Online Flaw". Its seems that PD has addressed it somewhat. You have to search pretty deep in the thread but there are discussions about the differences between open lobbies & lounges.

Can you link to it? I did a search for that and your post here is the second result. The first is a thread about Project CARS.

Edit: Found it, but it's old.

 

[DrKronin]

Well, maybe you should read the thread in my post above.

I did read that post, and while it's all a very interesting discussion of a now-resolved issue with mics (additional network traffic, so no surprise there), none of the data presented attempts to separate that variable from wheels. Every time he turns off the wheel, he turns off the mic too, so those two are conflated.

It's also relevant that I've never seen (nor heard reports of, from fellow SNAILs) the frame-rate hiccups that, if the premise of that post is to be believed, must necessarily be associated with the problem. I also see nothing in his data to suggest that lounges are somehow more susceptible to this alleged problem than lobbies. Just like with the alleged wheel problem, it would violate the most basic principles of software design (not to mention common sense) to code lobbies and lounges separately when except for superficial presentation, they are exactly the same thing.

 

[AJKVail]

Prime example of why people cant race clean

Great job by everone in D2 last night. Thanks to tcrash and kcheeb for doing an awesome job hosting.
Speaking of "old post", protest tip of the week, you can always use LAG as an excuse!
I'm just the messenger!

 

[Mrjones]

Can you link to it? I did a search for that and your post here is the second result. The first is a thread about Project CARS.

Edit: Found it, but it's old.

Like i said, its is old but has been updated and it does look like PD is addressing the problem.

 

[dabneyd]

Like i said, its is old but has been updated and it does look like PD is addressing the problem.

Voice chat is disabled in the SPEC lounges, maybe we should try this next week? I'm sure we can have all necessary communications via the text chat.

Re: The video above; That's not lag per se, it's client incompatibility.

 

[Oshawa-Joe]

At Indy my race lap times were consistently 2+ seconds slower compared to qualifying.

 

[Mrjones]

it's client incompatibility.

Dont you just love when your in a lobby & the 2 guys in front of you have this issue. Trying to pass 2 cars that look like they're mating only to have 1 shoot 30 feet in the air, you watch in amazement until you realize its about to land on you, lol happened to me plenty of times.

 

[Mrjones]

At Indy my race lap times were consistently 2+ seconds slower compared to qualifying.

Thats is one of the "symptoms" you could say, as it does not affect free run(Qualifying).

 

[Mrjones]

All im askin is for a serious discussion & maybe some test runs to see what is best for everyone.

 

[Oshawa-Joe]

From experience I have to agree lounges are far less stable than open lobby. Physics are also much different. However, evenings with bad connections have not been too common and the lounge does provide better control and fewer headaches for the Race Director. I think this is important because we are trying to run 6 races in quick fashion instead of 1 long race.

I think D3 was a bit buggy last night as well - possibly more related to evening network traffic? I don't know. Damn it Jim, I'm a driver not a Network Specialist.

 

[Apmaddock]

*weeps*

I hoped that video was lost to the annals of this grand thread.

Indeed, that was not lag, it was network incompatibility. Thankfully I have a much-improved connection now with faster speeds and better NAT type. I also have a wheel… good God I look jerky (literally and figuratively) in that video.

Thanks a lot, Vail! hehehe

 

[Dragonwar233]

At Indy my race lap times were consistently 2+ seconds slower compared to qualifying.

This didnt happen to me First race I qualified 1.11.8 & in rev grid all by myself I was hitting identical laptimes.
Then @ Suzuka I qualified 2.17.0 but in race leading it I ran 2.16.4.
The last combo is irrelevent because I was in traffic all the time.

 

[JLBowler]

The bug that is being spoken of when having more than 12 in a room is not as bad as it once was. It does effect wheel users and controller users differently. It also effects drivers in the pack differently than the lead driver. It does occur in both open lobbies and lounges. This is all from my personal experience and where I have seen it happen.

As for the discussion on tires. Everyone is on the same compound so what is the problem. My opinion is that some have learned to drive by sliding the car around the track which is rewarded in GT5. When these drivers are given more grip, it's harder to slide the car and they wear out their tires trying to slide the car through every corner. Personaly, I like the fact that tires can wear out. If adds another element to the racing and forces each driver to take care of their equipment.

The contact has been mentioned and some have tried to blame too much grip for contact under braking. I find this to be absolutly ridiculous. Once again, everyone is on the same tires so the braking distance isn't any different from car to car. The difference is one is braking early to save tires and the other is driving as normal and late braking.

If the tires are lowered another notch, we will all but remove tire wear from this league. Tire wear is an integral part of racing and should not be removed in my opinion.

 

[Apmaddock]

I felt that once you spin and/or go off the car looses rear grip a lot... even after the tires become to its normal temperature. Does the game simulate "dirt tires"?

I presume that you mean "dirty tires". Yes. Yes it does. In fact, you can even see that your tires are dirty in replay or in an open wheel car. Try driving an F1 car from cockpit view. Drive through the dirt and back on the track. Your tires will look dirty for a few seconds after your excursion.


Also: Good points, Bowler.

All im askin is for a serious discussion & maybe some test runs to see what is best for everyone.

Practice night is run in an open lobby. I've never noticed it being any different from league night.

 

[zer05ive]

Okay, I'm up from my Olympics-induced coma and have caught up on all of the posts from this morning. While it's true that we definitely got hit by the GT5 bug back in January, those issues have largely gone away. If some of you are still experiencing "bug-like" symptoms, then we should of course investigate what the cause it. However, I don't think racing in the open lobby is the answer.

It seems to me that as long as we have a host with a quality connection/ping, the number of connection issues we have are severely reduced. For example, I think D1 had issues last night because we didn't have a Primary Host designated. Before we resort to racing in the Open Lobby, let's identify the D1 driver with the best connection. We can also disable mics in some or all of the SNAIL lounges if necessary (but especially in the divisions that don't have a host with a grade "A" connection).

As for the tire restrictions, I'm all ears on how to improve our current format. It has evolved slowly during the entire existence of the league and I openly accept that it could and should evolve again. One thing that's important to me though is that any new tire guidelines be simple and straight-forward. I want our Prize A and Prize B winners to know exactly what tires will be used on the new cars they select to be added to the lineup. 👍

Now, about the results post.. stay tuned..

 

[tezgm99]

At Indy my race lap times were consistently 2+ seconds slower compared to qualifying.

Mine were as well I think, but I was trying to conserve the tyres in the races and not pushing anywhere near as hard as I did in qualifying :/

 

[Mrjones]

If the tires are lowered another notch, we will all but remove tire wear from this league. Tire wear is an integral part of racing and should not be removed in my opinion.

You mean the crazy unrealistic tire wear?

What car have you ever seen last less then 10 laps on a set of tires on a moderately sized track?(because of tire wear)

 

[Apmaddock]

"Realistically" tire wear should probably be saved for the endurance serieseses.

Of course, if you spin your tires and slide around every corner you're going to end up with less grip at the end of the race no matter how long it is or what grade of tires you're using.

 

[tezgm99]

You mean the crazy unrealistic tire wear?

What car have you ever seen last less then 10 laps on a set of tires on a moderately sized track?(because of tire wear)

How about F1? If Pirelli don't quite match the right tyre compound for the track, they've struggled to make 10 laps both this year and last year.

 

[JLBowler]

You mean the crazy unrealistic tire wear?

What car have you ever seen last less then 10 laps on a set of tires on a moderately sized track?(because of tire wear)

It's realistic enough that there is a difference in how many laps you can get out of a set based on how you drive the car. The other end of wear is just as bad. Put a set of comfort tires on and slide the car through every corner and not put a dent of wear in them. I know some drivers would love this becasue they could pretend they were running a time trial with wear off and it would be right up their alley.

There are already a precious few number of cars where tire wear is even a factor and I would hate to see it disappear all together. The point is, it's spec racing and everyone is on the same tires so the playing field is level on the basis of grip.

 

[Apmaddock]

everyone is on the same tires so the playing field is level on the basis of grip.

…or lack thereof…

 

[Dragonwar233]

It's realistic enough that there is a difference in how many laps you can get out of a set based on how you drive the car. The other end of wear is just as bad. Put a set of comfort tires on and slide the car through every corner and not put a dent of wear in them. I know some drivers would love this becasue they could pretend they were running a time trial with wear off and it would be right up their alley.

There are already a precious few number of cars where tire wear is even a factor and I would hate to see it disappear all together. The point is, it's spec racing and everyone is on the same tires so the playing field is level on the basis of grip.

Yeah its good that its equal playing field its just people dont care about the unrealistic grip. In real life the 458 wouldnt be able to take the turns this fast or create so much gs.

 

[Handlebar]

I was doing good, but I had conection issues at round 2 and I was disconnected from the lounge
Very funny and competitive lounge, I will stay in the league no matter what happen, this is the place to be in sunday nights

We were sorry to see you disconnect, AJHG1000, we'll see you next week, I hope.

 

[Oshawa-Joe]

Yeah its good that its equal playing field its just people dont care about the unrealistic grip. In real life the 458 wouldnt be able to take the turns this fast or create so much gs.

Why don't we use the spec tires?