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[jbica]

In situations like this, I say we just let the game itself be our guide. For example, the FT-86 G SPORTS Concept comes with sports tires, so I guess PD doesn't consider it a race car. On the other hand, concept cars like the Mazda Furai Concept comes with racing tires, so I interpret that to mean they consider it a race car.

But I can't use this car in Seasonal Events because PD doesn't consider it a Normal car. Just tried it on a 500pp Seasonal Event and it said I can't use this car. Now I can use the 86 GT Concept '09 in that same Season Event, But It really doesn't matter anyway.

 

[jbica]

What ever tires you guys want to run is fine, not a big deal, just that in this situation, I think there is an argument for either or... But it really isn't that big of a deal.

Edit... The car is so fast on RH, and would have been fun!

 

[zer05ive]

I have any extra McLaren MP4-12C '10 if anybody wants it. It's brand new and still needs to be broken-in. I'll send it to whoever claims it first.

 

[JLBowler]

In situations like this, I say we just let the game itself be our guide. For example, the FT-86 G SPORTS Concept comes with sports tires, so I guess PD doesn't consider it a race car. On the other hand, concept cars like the Mazda Furai Concept comes with racing tires, so I interpret that to mean they consider it a race car.

So by this logic, any car that is RM'd that still has sports tires on it after the RM is done would not be a race car? Using a flawed part of the game to make decisions is just flawed.

This car is a tuner car without a doubt. PD just didn't give GSports it's own spot in the dealership.

I don't care what tires go on this thing, as everyone will be on the same stuff, but I would like to see some consistency is how the rules are implemented.

 

[zer05ive]

So by this logic, any car that is RM'd that still has sports tires on it after the RM is done would not be a race car? Using a flawed part of the game to make decisions is just flawed.

This car is a tuner car without a doubt. PD just didn't give GSports it's own spot in the dealership.

I don't care what tires go on this thing, as everyone will be on the same stuff, but I would like to see some consistency is how the rules are implemented.

I didn't say I was using some sort of logic, I said "in situations like this". In other words, determining whether concept cars should be on sports tires or racing tires. Your example of RM'd cars is an entirely different situation, is it not?

 

[jbica]

I didn't say I was using some sort of logic, I said "in situations like this". Your example of RM'd cars is an entirely different situation, is it not?

I think the point was that the G sport is a tuned car, but we are going with normal car tire rules. I too think there should be consistency because when I saw the car selection, I purchased R.H. due to the rules of Tuned/Race cars.

Just Saying....

 

[tensor120]

I think it's more realistic when ALL cars are on sports tires. If you put racing tires on this RX-7 TC and run at Trial Mountain it's like you're controlling a slot car

 

[JLBowler]

My point was letting PD deceide anything by what tires they put on a car would be using flawed logic.

Most of the concept cars in the game are just early versions of production cars. The Furai would be an exception to this statement as it's closer to a race car than a production car. The GSports version of this concept is a tuner version of the other 86 concept that's in the game. I'll post the differences in the two cars in a few minutes after I look it up.

Weather or not it's a concept car doesn't make a difference according to our tire rules. The fact that it's a tuner car would put it in the tuner/race car category.


Quoted from Tensor120:

I think it's more realistic when ALL cars are on sports tires. If you put racing tires on this RX-7 TC and run at Trial Mountain it's like you're controlling a slot car


After watching three hours worth of replays due to complaints, it's painfully obvious to me that quite a few drivers need to be driving a slot car and could use the extra grip.

 

[tensor120]

The fact that it's a tuner car would put it in the tuner/race car category.

:idea:Using this logic, the Nismo GT-R R34 and 350Z are race cars? Tuned cars are street legal race cars, IMO

 

[kcheeb]

After watching three hours worth of replays due to complaints, it's painfully obvious to me that quite a few drivers need to be driving a slot car and could use the extra grip.

At the risk of starting the tire debate again ...

This is a good part of the reason why I argued against the last shift in tire compounds.

 

[DrKronin]

Regardless of how the rules are written, does anybody really want RH tires for a sub-500PP car? It's already hard enough to pass at Tsukuba, so even if the rules we chose dictate otherwise, I would vote that we make an exception and treat this car as a concept.

 

[zer05ive]

:idea:Using this logic, the Nismo GT-R R34 and 350Z are race cars? Tuned cars are street legal race cars, IMO

I was just thinking something similar.. Perhaps it's the lumping of tuner cars with race cars that we need to reconsider..

 

[dabneyd]

I was just thinking something similar.. Perhaps it's the lumping of tuner cars with race cars that we need to reconsider..

Well, I didn't think we had done that, but I agree that tuner cars should not be lumped in with race cars. I think we should be able to figure out the difference if there is any grey area.

 

[hillracing]

If it gets put on race tires I'll ask to change my selection. I picked it because it was a little challenging to drive but not that hard. Putting it on race tires will make it almost boring to drive which I kind of felt the evo was.

 

[dabneyd]

If it gets put on race tires I'll ask to change my selection. I picked it because it was a little challenging to drive but not that hard. Putting it on race tires will make it almost boring to drive which I kind of felt the evo was.

I don't think that's going to happen.

 

[JLBowler]

The differences on the two car are as follows:

GT 86 Concept: 232 hp stock suspension
GT 86 GSports Concept: 305 hp fixed sports suspension

It is a tuner car. This is the first time a tuner car has been selected with the new tire regs and already there is a call for an exception.

Hillracing, you knew the rule when you picked the car. If you wanted to run on sports tires you could have picked the non tuner version of the car. If someone wants to run it on race tires, they can pick the tuner version. This isn't complicated in any way.

I believe every tuner car in the game has a regular version as a counterpart. If someone wants to pick the tuner, they should know it's going on race tires. If they don't want to run on race tires, they should pick the non-tuner version of the same car.

If that's too difficult for everyone to understand, then open up the tire debate over tuner cars again. I'm sure that wouldn't get complicated at all.

 

[zer05ive]

Well, I didn't think we had done that, but I agree that tuner cars should not be lumped in with race cars. I think we should be able to figure out the difference if there is any grey area.

The lumping of tuner and race cars was done here. I readily admit that it was done without a full inspection of any potential "grey area". I chatted with Apmaddock while putting the latest tire restrictions together and I recall that we were just trying to find the right "wording" for the car categories.

Once my McLaren is done with it's break-in, I'll take a closer look at the traditional "tuner cars" in the game and see if I can see a pattern that will help us clarify this matter. Of course, everyone is encouraged to bring forward your own observations or recommendations. 👍

 

[pilmat]

Regardless of how the rules are written, does anybody really want RH tires for a sub-500PP car? It's already hard enough to pass at Tsukuba, so even if the rules we chose dictate otherwise, I would vote that we make an exception and treat this car as a concept.

This.

We need longer braking zones and slower corner speeds so it's fun to race. Driving cars that are on-rails gets a procession that is a bit boring.

 

[zer05ive]

The differences on the two car are as follows:

GT 86 Concept: 232 hp stock suspension
GT 86 GSports Concept: 305 hp fixed sports suspension

It is a tuner car. This is the first time a tuner car has been selected with the new tire regs and already there is a call for an exception.

Hillracing, you knew the rule when you picked the car. If you wanted to run on sports tires you could have picked the non tuner version of the car. If someone wants to run it on race tires, they can pick the tuner version. This isn't complicated in any way.

The reason it's complicated is that most tuner cars in the game aren't purchased from the OEM dealer. This is the first time I've ever noticed this being the case. I completely understand how Hillracing would not consider it a tuner car as it is purchased though Toyota, not G SPORTS.

I believe every tuner car in the game has a regular version as a counterpart. If someone wants to pick the tuner, they should know it's going on race tires. If they don't want to run on race tires, they should pick the non-tuner version of the same car.

I think this is a reasonable suggestion. The only problem is do we really think tuner cars deserve racing tires? After all, tuner cars are street legal cars and are not specifically modded to be raced. This oversight is on me - as it was not considered when creating our latest tire regulations.

 

[JLBowler]

I don't see the point in making another change to the tire regs to accomodate such a small number of cars. If there is a tuner car that doesn't have a stock counterpart, then I can see an exception for that car written in. As long as the tuner car has a stock counterpart, it's up to the driver making the selection as to what he wants to do with it.

 

[DrKronin]

Once my McLaren is done with it's break-in, I'll take a closer look at the traditional "tuner cars" in the game and see if I can see a pattern that will help us clarify this matter. Of course, everyone is encouraged to bring forward your own observations or recommendations. 👍

This is going to sound very wrong at first, but looking through the dealership, it seems to make sense:

In situations where a car is not clearly either a street car or a race car, we should decide based on whether or not it has advertisements on it. If a car is ever intended to actually be raced, it will have ads on it. This is a fiscal truism in the real world. If it's tuned for car shows (like the car we're currently debating), it most likely won't have ads (except for the badges designating the manufacturer, model and trim that most production cars have.)

Edit: I just found the Lexus IS concept, which kinda blows this theory out of the water. It was never actually raced, as far as I know, but was prepared to race in DTM. Uggh.

 

[hillracing]

The differences on the two car are as follows:

GT 86 Concept: 232 hp stock suspension
GT 86 GSports Concept: 305 hp fixed sports suspension

It is a tuner car. This is the first time a tuner car has been selected with the new tire regs and already there is a call for an exception.

Hillracing, you knew the rule when you picked the car. If you wanted to run on sports tires you could have picked the non tuner version of the car. If someone wants to run it on race tires, they can pick the tuner version. This isn't complicated in any way.

I believe every tuner car in the game has a regular version as a counterpart. If someone wants to pick the tuner, they should know it's going on race tires. If they don't want to run on race tires, they should pick the non-tuner version of the same car.

If that's too difficult for everyone to understand, then open up the tire debate over tuner cars again. I'm sure that wouldn't get complicated at all.

I didn't think it was a tuner car because it is bought from Toyota not a tuner. Besides it says concept which is different from a tuner car. I also said in my post that I thought that it wasn't a tuner car.

 

[dabneyd]

The only problem is do we really think tuner cars deserve racing tires? After all, tuner cars are street legal cars and are not specifically modded to be raced. This oversight is on me - as it was not considered when creating our latest tire regulations.

I don't think they should be on race tires. We should treat them like street cars because mostly they are.

 

[jbica]

The lumping of tuner and race cars was done here. I readily admit that it was done without a full inspection of any potential "grey area". I chatted with Apmaddock while putting the latest tire restrictions together and I recall that we were just trying to find the right "wording" for the car categories.

Once my McLaren is done with it's break-in, I'll take a closer look at the traditional "tuner cars" in the game and see if I can see a pattern that will help us clarify this matter. Of course, everyone is encouraged to bring forward your own observations or recommendations. 👍

Then a new tire rule should be made for Stock/production, Concept/Tuner, and Racing/Race Mod. But for now, We need to follow the rules set in place, and those rules call for R.H. Rules are Rules!

 

[dabneyd]

We need to follow the rules set in place, and those rules call for R.H. Rules are Rules!

What? That's absurd. Zer0 has even said that it was an oversight. I really don't see the problem with talking about this and making a change if necessary. Rules can change. We have to keep it fun.

 

[jbica]

What? That's absurd. Zer0 has even said that it was an oversight. I really don't see the problem with talking about this and making a change if necessary. Rules can change. We have to keep it fun.

and why would faster, better cornering cars not be fun... slower cars that can't steer are way better, my bad!

 

[DrKronin]

and why would faster, better cornering cars not be fun... slower cars that can't steer are way better, my bad!

For most people, the fun of racing is being at "the limit." If you use racing tires on a 1000kg car with 300 bhp on a tiny track like Tsukuba, you'll rarely even approach the limit.

 

[hillracing]

and why would faster, better cornering cars not be fun... slower cars that can't steer are way better, my bad!

So you'd prefer the car to be faster but drive itself? On sm tires you have to drive the car, modulate throttle and be smooth. On rh tires it's just point and go.

I think the problem is we don't have a tuner car defined. I think it should be defined as sold by a tuner and not a concept. If you went to the auto show and saw a concept car would you consider that a tuner car? But if you went to the track and saw a time attack car I think that would be a tuner car.

 

[zer05ive]

Then a new tire rule should be made for Stock/production, Concept/Tuner, and Racing/Race Mod. But for now, We need to follow the rules set in place, and those rules call for R.H. Rules are Rules!

Hill racing intended for his pick to be on Sports Medium tires, based on his understanding of the car and tire regulations. Therefore, we're either going to honor that or give him the option to pick another car.

 

[dabneyd]

This is going to sound very wrong at first, but looking through the dealership, it seems to make sense:

In situations where a car is not clearly either a street car or a race car, we should decide based on whether or not it has advertisements on it. If a car is ever intended to actually be raced, it will have ads on it. This is a fiscal truism in the real world. If it's tuned for car shows (like the car we're currently debating), it most likely won't have ads (except for the badges designating the manufacturer, model and trim that most production cars have.)

Edit: I just found the Lexus IS concept, which kinda blows this theory out of the water. It was never actually raced, as far as I know, but was prepared to race in DTM. Uggh.

And then there's the case of RE Amemiya which has the FD3S RX-7. It has sponsors on it, but in the description it says "The Amemiya u Boost up 7 is a street machine created by..."