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[Apmaddock]

When the majority of drivers say racing early is their preference or works for them, what makes you think it doesn't need to be changed?

I believe hill's point is like mine: More people said that an earlier or later time would NOT work (vote 3) than did for 10ET. Changing the time to earlier may have made it more convenient for people who were already racing, but it turned away other racers who were racing. Leaving the time as it was worked at the very least "well enough" for everyone who was racing without kicking any one of them out.

I know it's a little late with the suggestion but why not run at 9ET and again at 11ET.

As I've mentioned a couple of times, there would be few divisions full of racers of more disparate skill. Changing anything changes everything.

 

[kcheeb]

Oh c'mon Kcheeb... Pure humour has to hit the subject straight.... specialy sarcastic humour... i laughed my bum bum off

But the implication is decisions that are made are done arbitrarily, without thought nor reason. That's what I find insulting.

 

[Skills]

Let's change the day we race while we're at it.

 

[JLBowler]

I believe hill's point is like mine: More people said that an earlier or later time would NOT work (vote 3) than did for 10ET. Changing the time to earlier may have made it more convenient for people who were already racing, but it turned away other racers who were racing. Leaving the time as it was worked at the very least "well enough" for everyone who was racing without kicking any one of them out.



JLBowler
I know it's a little late with the suggestion but why not run at 9ET and again at 11ET.


As I've mentioned a couple of times, there would be few divisions full of racers of more disparate skill. Changing anything changes everything.

My though there was how many guys would run twice in a night. I know I would and I'm sure there are some others out there. If there weren't enough guys like me then it wouldn't be worth doing it that way. It would give those that want it more racing and those that need the flexibility would have that as well. I wouldn't suggest implementing any time change until all the ramifications have been analyzed and we're sure it's actually going to add drivers instead of remove them.

 

[Oshawa-Joe]

Run a SNAIL Light session starting 11pm where anyone can join in. Keep the Big Show for points as it is.

I doubt any math will make up for someone like *Worst Driver racing for D1 points (and winning D1???) by racing against D3 drivers.
(*just an example - insert any alien name you like)

(In need of emotional support during this difficult time of change.)

 

[hillracing]

I believe hill's point is like mine: More people said that an earlier or later time would NOT work (vote 3) than did for 10ET. Changing the time to earlier may have made it more convenient for people who were already racing, but it turned away other racers who were racing. Leaving the time as it was worked at the very least "well enough" for everyone who was racing without kicking any one of them out.

This was my point. There seemed to be more people who liked the old time and system than people asking for change. Also by changing we are now losing some of our core racers which is a good indication that it's the wrong thing to do.

But the implication is decisions that are made are done arbitrarily, without thought nor reason. That's what I find insulting.

That wasn't my point and it was also a joke. My point was Zero's solution to starting earlier isn't a good one and is really stretching for a solution to a problem that doesn't have to exist.

 

[zer05ive]

Not sure how much help it will be for a D5 driver to be there, but always gain experience from being around Aliens. Hope the idea increases the activity.

Hey zer0, please add me to the list for second chance grid filler

Thanks guys, I've added to the list. 👍

Drivers who are not able to start at the earlier time, but still want to race Round 1 to complete the lineup:

1. 
   zer05ive
2. [your name here]
3. [your name here]
4. [your name here]
5. [your name here]

Drivers who are willing to help fill the grid for their fellow SNAILs when their division is done racing:

1. dangerzone641
2. jobyone
3. TEX36
4. kcheeb
5. [your name here]

 

[DrKronin]

I believe hill's point is like mine: More people said that an earlier or later time would NOT work (vote 3) than did for 10ET. Changing the time to earlier may have made it more convenient for people who were already racing, but it turned away other racers who were racing. Leaving the time as it was worked at the very least "well enough" for everyone who was racing without kicking any one of them out.

I think this is a key point. It seems the votes have been used to determine what time would be best to start. I think a fair case can be made that it is better to avoid whatever time(s) is worst.

Using my own votes as an example, I voted '1' for the earlier start time, '2' for how we have it now, and '3' for later. The important takeaway (from my vote, anyway) should be that starting later would make it more difficult for me than it currently is. Earlier would be easier, but I'm still going to make just as many races if we leave it alone.

If I had anticipated how the votes would be interpreted, I think I would have voted 2,2,3 instead of 1,2,3. It is true that earlier is easier, but only slightly, and I don't feel that my '1' vote for the earlier time should carry as much weight as someone else's '3' -- especially if that means they cannot race at all at that time.

I really appreciate the effort that is going in to trying to find the best time to start, but I personally feel that the methodology could be improved.

 

[JLBowler]

Run a SNAIL Light session starting 11pm where anyone can join in. Keep the Big Show for points as it is.

I doubt any math will make up for someone like *Worst Driver racing for D1 points (and winning D1???) by racing against D3 drivers.
(*just an example - insert any alien name you like)

(In need of emotional support during this difficult time of change.)

I'm not seeing an effective way of awarding points to drivers racing against different levels of competition. Using the exapmle of a D1 driver racing against a slew of D4 and D5 drivers. The D1 driver is most likely going to win both races. It's not fair to the other D1 drivers to award him 16 pts. per win against lesser competition. At the same time, it's not really fair to the D1 driver racing in the make up room to say there were 8 guys in D1 tonight, so you're going to get 9th place points for those two races becasue you didn't beat any D1 drivers. I can't fathom an amount of math-fu that would make this problem go away or be solved in an equitable manner. There are just too many variables to consider to slap a formula on it and call it good.

I just read DrKronin's post after I posted mine and I agree. Whatever time change had the most votes for 3 should have been ruled out. 1 and 2 were too similiar in nature to really show a difference. Now that we now how many people can't race earlier, we should try and contact any old SNAIL's and ask if they would race if the time was moved. Anyone that is here reading the thread and voting isn't going to leave if the time stays the same. We need to know how many would come back if the time changed instead of changing the time, losing long time drivers, and hoping some drivers come back or it's more appealing. There is an old saying about birds in a bush that comes to mind right now.

 

[zer05ive]

If anyone needs a broken in Corvette RM, let me know since mine will just be sitting in my garage gathering dust unfortunately as I'm out.

I loved battling with the same people all night and with the combined division race for those who can't make the earlier start, I know I won't have as much fun

Tez, if you want to play the sympathy card like like Ap's been doing, then just go ahead and do it. But to say that you're quitting because you won't have as much fun?? Would racing with that likes of me, dangerzone641, jobyone, TEX36, and kcheeb really be that unbearable to you? So unbearable that you couldn't endure it for just one out of the three combos? I suspect that's not the case.

Instead, I'm guessing that you (like Ap) are quitting as a way to protest that you didn't get your way. I don't fault you for putting your own interests above everyone else's (it's human nature after all), but please consider that I'm not asking you or Ap to do anything that I'm not willing to do myself. Or is your enjoyment of S.N.A.I.L. more important than mine?

 

[Wolfsatz]

From my own perspective even though i missed the voting period! The only reason I would be in favor of starting early is because ever since the new and improved qual procedure it usually delays the qual time by much longer than the usual 10.
Add that to the discos and waiting for racers to reconnect.

I prefer the 10 oclock start time if we keep things moving along per the schedule.

 

[JLBowler]

From my own perspective even though i missed the voting period! The only reason I would be in favor of starting early is because ever since the new and improved qual procedure it usually delays the qual time by much longer than the usual 10.
Add that to the discos and waiting for racers to reconnect.

I prefer the 10 oclock start time if we keep things moving along per the schedule.

That's just an issue with the drivers in your room not getting in and getting out on the track and getting moving. D2 has run right on time, if not finishing a little early since we've been using the new qualifying procedure.

 

[Wolfsatz]

Thanks guys, I've added to the list. 👍

Drivers who are not able to start at the earlier time, but still want to race Round 1 to complete the lineup:

1. 
   zer05ive
2. [your name here]
3. [your name here]
4. [your name here]
5. [your name here]

Drivers who are willing to help fill the grid for their fellow SNAILs when their division is done racing:

1. dangerzone641
2. jobyone
3. TEX36
4. kcheeb
5. [your name here]

You can add me as the 5th wheel spare!

 

[jobyone]

Thanks guys, I've added to the list. 👍

Drivers who are not able to start at the earlier time, but still want to race Round 1 to complete the lineup:

1. 
   zer05ive
2. [your name here]
3. [your name here]
4. [your name here]
5. [your name here]

Drivers who are willing to help fill the grid for their fellow SNAILs when their division is done racing:

1. dangerzone641
2. jobyone
3. TEX36
4. kcheeb
5. [your name here]

If I understand this correctly at around 11:30 EST/ 8:30 PST we will all hop in a lobby and run the 1st Combo. I am all for that. Any suggestions for what we do after that? Cruise? Performance Cap? Best of SNAIL? I for one will be able to race for a few hours and would love the company.

 

[Apmaddock]

Tez, if you want to play the sympathy card like like Ap's been doing, then just go ahead and do it. But to say that you're quitting because you won't have as much fun?? Would racing with that likes of me, dangerzone641, jobyone, TEX36, and kcheeb really be that unbearable to you? So unbearable that you couldn't endure it for just one out of the three combos? I suspect that's not the case.

Instead, I'm guessing that you (like Ap) are quitting as a way to protest that you didn't get your way. I don't fault you for putting your own interests above everyone else's (it's human nature after all), but please consider that I'm not asking you or Ap to do anything that I'm not willing to do myself. Or is your enjoyment of S.N.A.I.L. more important than mine?

I'm not quitting as a protest. I'm quitting because I can't make the earlier time happen and I don't want to race as some part of a adapted format.

The ebb and flow of a battle for points (whether it be for first or fifth) over the course of a night is part of the excitement and would be wholly ruined by starting mid-evening and with varied opponents.

The very fact that YOU can't begin racing at 9:30 just proves that this change is for the worse. You're running this league like a business that needs to spend a bunch of capital to try to get ahead, but that's not what this is, zer0. It is (was?) a league full of a bunch of guys that had fun every Sunday night and you're throwing at least two of them under the bus to do what? Try to make new friends? Now all of the voices are saying that this was a bad idea but you've already stuck your neck out. We'll see if you do it twice.

You claim that Tez and I are playing the sympathy card? You sound like you're martyring yourself!

I won't be waiting around until April to see if things go back to how they were.

 

[Oshawa-Joe]

Girls, girls.... You're both pretty.

 

[zer05ive]

You can add me as the 5th wheel spare!

Thanks Wolfsatz! The post-SNAIL grid is getting more and more compelling!

Drivers who are not able to start at the earlier time, but still want to race Round 1 to complete the lineup:

1. 
   zer05ive
2. [your name here]
3. [your name here]

Drivers who are willing to help fill the grid for their fellow SNAILs when their division is done racing:

1. dangerzone641
2. jobyone
3. TEX36
4. kcheeb
5. Wolfsatz
6. [your name here]
7. [your name here]

If I understand this correctly at around 11:30 EST/ 8:30 PST we will all hop in a lobby and run the 1st Combo. I am all for that. Any suggestions for what we do after that? Cruise? Performance Cap? Best of SNAIL? I for one will be able to race for a few hours and would love the company.

That's correct. Unfortunately, I suspect most of us will be hitting the sack after that. After all, the human body's undeniable need for sleep played a significant role in starting this debate in the first place.

 

[Luv2Coach]

I did as asked on an earlier post and listed it below. I have had several PMs in addition to public forgiveness. I ask is it Zer0's decision alone as to whether I can race here again? Forever, temporarily, or what? I am simply asking so I will know what I need to do. If it is for x amount of time, then I will stay up to date as to what is happening in SNAIL-ville and make sure I have cars ready for the green light. Otherwise, I will bid farewell.

I am truly sorry for what I have done and caused here. I think this community is a great community full of caring people. There has been a lot learned here for me, more than what you might think. Thank you for the rebuking.

I ask for forgiveness from the community with a sincere and mourning heart. I am sorry, will you forgive me for what I have done?

John 3:20-21, James 5:16, Luke 17:3

 

[TEX36]

Sad isn't it ....... many enjoyable endeavors, organizations and even political systems meet their demize because of internal difficulties. I hope "we" get thru this and move on. Besides, there truely is, in my experience, no other place to go were the attributes of S.N.A.I.L are found in the GT community of racers. IMHO

 

[Luv2Coach]

I don't know why a time change was even considered in the first place. When someone comes into the league they know the start time. It's not something they didn't know coming in.

 

[zer05ive]

The ebb and flow of a battle for points (whether it be for first or fifth) over the course of a night is part of the excitement and would be wholly ruined by starting mid-evening and with varied opponents.

This coming from the person who just a few days ago said, "Most of the people who race here do so because they love it and the points are way out of their mind."

So which is it, Ap? Do you love the racing or the battle for points?

The very fact that YOU can't begin racing at 9:30 just proves that this change is for the worse. You're running this league like a business that needs to spend a bunch of capital to try to get ahead, but that's not what this is, zer0. It is (was?) a league full of a bunch of guys that had fun every Sunday night and you're throwing at least two of them under the bus to do what? Try to make new friends? Now all of the voices are saying that this was a bad idea but you've already stuck your neck out. We'll see if you do it twice.

What I'm trying to do is find a solution to a problem. GT5 is two and half years old and there simply aren't as many people playing it. What the poll results showed me was that our time slot was was less than ideal for even our own members. That's not to mention all of those who don't even race with us. The fact is that the majority of US and Canada lives in the eastern time zone. Another fact is that most people like to go to bed before midnight when they need to go to work the next day. By not forcing this massive population on the east coast to choose us over sleep, we're.. Ah 🤬 it. Nevermind.

You claim that Tez and I are playing the sympathy card? You sound like you're martyring yourself!

I won't be waiting around until April to see if things go back to how they were.

To be perfectly blunt, I didn't expect this much uproar over a just a 30-minute shift, especially with a plan in place for those of us affected. However, it's clear that you're not willing to compromise on this. Therefore, I'll leave it in your hands. You want to quit? Fine, we'll move the start time as planned. If you want to stay and race with us, we'll keep the start time at 10pm Eastern / 7pm Pacific. It's your call. I'm done with this drama and debate. I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't.

 

[jobyone]

If I had not found SNAIL GT5 would still just be me doing hot laps on my own.

As it is I have met a lot of great people that I enjoy racing. I hate the tone that is going on now in this thread. It can not be easy trying to please nearly 100 people. There is no perfect solution. I think it might make sense for everyone to take a step back and just relax. You can choose to race on Sunday or maybe just take a break and decide what is right for you. This is just a game. And this league is organized by people who do it on their free time. No one is leaving but some people may not race on Sundays anymore. That does not mean we can not all still find a way to enjoy the opportunities that we have through this game and this league.

While I do not see a huge benefit in this change I will choose to make the most of it and give it a chance.

 

[IceWarden]

That's just an issue with the drivers in your room not getting in and getting out on the track and getting moving. D2 has run right on time, if not finishing a little early since we've been using the new qualifying procedure.

Werd!

Not sure how your division runs longer than 10 mins. Even if it takes 2 mins for everyone to get on the track and line up (it takes D2 an average of one minute), you then run 3-4 practice laps depending on the normal lap times. This normally takes no longer than 6-7 mins. You should always be starting the race at less than 10mins elapsed time on the qualifying clock. We usually hit start with 8mins or so on the clock.

I don't remember the last time we ended after midnight EST.

 

[Handlebar]

To me this is just crazy....Unless you get demoted to D5 unless you race in D5 in which case you have to drive with a chicken on your head while singing Mary had a little lamb in Bugs Bunnies voice.

My Bugs Bunny isn't great, I could possibly put up with the chicken... But I can't see a way to DEmoted to D5, so I am outta luck on that situation, hillracing... I was THEEES close!

 

[Handlebar]

A snail with no shell is a slug.

Now... THAT is funny. I am going to crawl into a thicker shell, and maybe hit D1 for some practice in 10 minutes or so.

 

[Oshawa-Joe]

zer0 and ap...

 

[jobyone]

I did as asked on an earlier post and listed it below. I have had several PMs in addition to public forgiveness. I ask is it Zer0's decision alone as to whether I can race here again? Forever, temporarily, or what? I am simply asking so I will know what I need to do. If it is for x amount of time, then I will stay up to date as to what is happening in SNAIL-ville and make sure I have cars ready for the green light. Otherwise, I will bid farewell.

I am all for second chances. For now though you are going to have to prove to others that you have changed.

 

[Luv2Coach]

I am all for second chances. For now though you are going to have to prove to others that you have changed.

I totally agree, but that cannot happen unless I'm on the track. I no longer have access to any room.

 

[Oshawa-Joe]

Your Steward Report for the Week​

Division 2

luv2coach / GT5AddictGt5

• Shortcutting - 5 points - doubled for probation to 10 points
• Level 1- 1 points - halved for concession+doubled for probation to 1 points
• Level 1- 1 points - halved for concession+doubled for probation to 1 points
  Total of 12 points and three week probation remains (pending approval)

JoeW / Ice_Warden

• Level 1- 2 points - halved for concession to 1 point and 1 week probation

Division 4
tommy2dollaz / tommy2dollaz

• Shortcutting - 6 points and 1 week probation

whatbadgerseat / whatbadgerseat

• Level 2- 5 points - halved for concession to2.5 points and 2 week probation

Division 5

Moperlover2 / moperlover

• Shortcutting - 3 points and 1 week probation

LondonDTM / VAG_star

• Shortcutting - 2 points and 1 week probation

* * * * * * * * * *​

These changes did not affect the final standings for the week, but may affect the standings for the season.

Full final results can be found here.

***If you were penalized and would like further explanation regarding the incident, just PM your Division Steward and they will let you know what the stewards saw and our opinions on it.***

 

[IceWarden]

Below are various quotes froms stewards and people who run this league. I would think your answer would have been gleaned already.

In short, spots changed, same leopard.

After having all over SNAIL and the stewards, the flippant, casual manner in which you admit to fabricating a false identity (an identity you created 3 days before your rant, suggesting you had planned to infiltrate under a false identity well ahead of that) so that you could again take advantage of the charity and hospitality of the people you just crapped all over, is frightening.

You do not ever seem to think anything on the track is your fault, even partially. It is apparently inconceivable. That is not learning.

I hope this experience has taught you that your aggressive driving is a problem, no matter which name you use -- and no matter how good you are at the smiley glad-hand act. But I suspect you'll probably find a way to blame this on someone else, too. In my limited experience, people incapable of self-reflection rarely learn it. But I sincerely hope you do. And I hope you find some people to drive with that are a better fit than we are. Good bye and good luck.

I say we call it a parting gift as he rides off into the sunset with his head held low.

I don't know what you hoped to gain from this ploy, but I think the overwhelming negative response shows you haven't acheived it.