◆ SNAIL [Spec] Racing - Join now to win a Digit Racing EDGE Masterclass enrollment!!Open

[Oshawa-Joe]

People seem to be more comfortable with filing reports for everything else except race starts. They rather get out of the way instead of playing chicken.

Think about a race start going into Turn 1 at Monza!
....really, people need to gain a position at the start that bad? You have 40 more corners to get it done!

The rule wouldn't 100% ban passing in the first corner, but simply control it better. It would make it clear we want more that "marginal" overlap going into turn one, otherwise fall back in line if you are in that "grey" area. But hey, if you can actually make the pass before turn in, then go for it. Obviously if someone feels they were wronged in the first corner they would have to file a complaint. Penalties would need to be tripled for first corner incidents in order to give the rule some teeth.

If you think you can make a clean pass on Turn 1, go for it. But it better be found to be clean by the guy you passed, as well as the stewards.

What the heck is wrong with that?

 

[Garagefather]

So you want to make everyone tiptoe through turn one and not make any passes. What happens when the filed gets to turn two and someone gets over aggressive? What about the last turn of the race, drivers often get aggressive there too. Should we look at outlawing passes in the last turn as well?

It's racing. As soon as the green flag drops, you should be looking to improve your position. You should also be doing so in a way that is within the rules. If you can't follow the rules, you should be penalized. The first turn is no different from any other turn and the rules should be enforced just as they are at any other time.

If you want to make a decision to move over and stay out of the way because of what someone might do, then that's your decision and you will give up whatever positions that costs you. We don't need to take away passing in corner one just because of what some guys might do which is already against the rules. Suck it up, hold your line, and if you get moved out of the way, file a complaint.

Although your response may have been directed to others, I can see that my opinion is at odds with your valid and logical argument and that entertaining this proposal is clearly irritating you.

I apologize for possibly exacerbating the seemingly steady stream of negativity on this thread.

My original intent was merely to explain what I knew to be true about the first turn passing rule as it is enforced in turtle.

 

[zer05ive]

Zero or Kcheeb, could you log into D2. Go to my name and download the track I have in share. Then take that track and set it to share on D2. We are planning to use it for the Oval event next month. This will be an easier way to distribute it.

3/8 Left Hand Oval-

all others this track is a lot of fun for kart, drifting, and general time killing. comes highly recommended.

Thank you

zer05ive, can you deal with this? I don't have a Save game for the S.N.A.I.L. accounts on my machine.

Done.

----------------------

I need to get my butt in gear and do something for you all. The signage I spoke with Zero is for sure. Summer coming and ill have longer work hours with kids out of school.

Maybe design add an adapter to your line up. Hmm

May consider doing something as a give away. Just gotta decide what. Maybe some SNAIL key chains from billet aluminum.

Lots to think about. You guys put in so much time and have provided an awesome racing experience. Be a pleasure to kick back showing appreciation.

Anything you come up with would we greatly appreciated, Jeff! I will cover any materials and shipping costs as well. S.N.A.I.L. signs, keychains, etc would be awesome prizes to give out! 👍

Btw, what did you mean by "adapter to your line up"? I wasn't sure what that was.

 

[hillracing]

So you want to make everyone tiptoe through turn one and not make any passes. What happens when the filed gets to turn two and someone gets over aggressive? What about the last turn of the race, drivers often get aggressive there too. Should we look at outlawing passes in the last turn as well?

It's racing. As soon as the green flag drops, you should be looking to improve your position. You should also be doing so in a way that is within the rules. If you can't follow the rules, you should be penalized. The first turn is no different from any other turn and the rules should be enforced just as they are at any other time.

If you want to make a decision to move over and stay out of the way because of what someone might do, then that's your decision and you will give up whatever positions that costs you. We don't need to take away passing in corner one just because of what some guys might do which is already against the rules. Suck it up, hold your line, and if you get moved out of the way, file a complaint.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[Oshawa-Joe]

Although your response may have been directed to others, I can see that my opinion is at odds with your valid and logical argument and that entertaining this proposal is clearly irritating you.

I apologize for possibly exacerbating the seemingly steady stream of negativity on this thread.

My original intent was merely to explain what I knew to be true about the first turn passing rule.

I think it's directed at me. I'm being a pain in the arse in the stewards forum. I probably should have found something more productive to do today when my job was cancelled.

 

[JLBowler]

I don't see the point or anything good coming from having a different set of rules for any one corner during a race. The rules are already in place. If any driver would rather get out of the way than hold their line and then file a complaint if necessary, that is their problem and they should figure out how to deal with it. If that means losing three spots in turn one for fear of getting bumped then so be it. Racing is about risk/reward. If a driver is willing to take a risk in turn one and do so without making contact then they should be rewarded and not have their hands tied by a rule that only exists for one turn.

Posts came in while I was typing. I am arguing the point. I am not arguing with anyone specifically. I can respect your point of view and I would hope that those with a different point of view from me can respect mine. I don't like the idea of telling a driver when and where they can attempt a pass. As long as they can do it cleanly, it should be allowed anywhere anytime.

 

[Oshawa-Joe]

That's what I said, I think. Key word being cleanly. Maybe it's better rephrasing it to "Penalties will be tripled for Turn 1 race start incidents".

I have to say that I have a bit of experience in racing under that rule and there is a big difference in respect for driver position going into turn 1.

It really reinforces this:

SNAIL OLR
H:
The position of other drivers must always be respected.

 

[Luv2Coach]

Can you pass the ones that go wide and blow turn 1?

Or does everyone stack up behind?

Check out the wording at Turtle here at GTP. It will help with that question until y'all get official word on this new rule.

 

[Luv2Coach]

That's what I said, I think. Key word being cleanly. Maybe it's better rephrasing it to "Penalties will be tripled for Turn 1 race start incidents".

I have to say that I have a bit of experience in racing under that rule and there is a big difference in respect for driver position going into turn 1.

It really reinforces this:

SNAIL OLR
H:
The position of other drivers must always be respected.

Makes a big difference. Good rule to have.

 

[JLBowler]

That's what I said, I think. Key word being cleanly. Maybe it's better rephrasing it to "Penalties will be tripled for Turn 1 race start incidents".

I have to say that I have a bit of experience in racing under that rule and there is a big difference in respect for driver position going into turn 1.

It really reinforces this:

SNAIL OLR
H:
The position of other drivers must always be respected.

I'll repeat what I said in the stewards thread. I don't think stiffer penalties are the way to go. I like the consistency of the rules for all corners. I think having a steward watch turn one of each race and being able to assess penalties even if a complaint was not filed would be an acceptable way to go. Ok, so I elaborated on my point from the stewards thread but you get the idea. If we want to make drivers more aware of their actions, we don't need a new rule, we just need to let the drivers know that the stewards will be watching turn one even if complaints are not filed. We, as stewards, already have the ability to assess penalties on incidents where complaints are not filed if we see them while reviewing other incidents. All we have to do is have each steward look at a couple of starts. It shouldn't take more than a couple of minutes to look at the first 20 seconds of a few races. It could even be a job for each division steward to download and watch the first turn for every race in their division and have one thread in the stewards area each week for turn one incidents.

 

[Oshawa-Joe]

Makes a big difference. Good rule to have.

ALL the rules in the OLR are good. I would like to add something about turn 1 to improve on it.

Example:

The First Turn Rule - It is the policy of this league for you to hold your position in turn 1 and not try to improve it unless the following situations occur: 1) The driver directly in front of you is asleep on the start. 2) The driver directly in front of you runs off course with at least 2 wheels off the track. 3) Obvious race incidents that must be avoided. 4) If you are able to fully draft past someone without incident or disruption to the other driver(s) with a reasonable distance before approaching the first turn.

Holding your position in the first turn is limited to the first turn on the first lap. This rule is in place for 2 reason: (1) to effectively avoid incidents in the first turn, and (2) so that drivers who are being careful and doing their part to avoid incidents in the 1st turn of are not taken advantage of. There is no sense in causing an incident in the congestion of the first turn. You can not win the race on the 1st turn or even the 1st lap. If a complaint is filed, the decision we make will be one that promotes an incident free first turn.

 

[Rallywagon]

Rally,

I think im going to ahead and try a touge event for Sunday night. If anyone is interested I will be putting up some details later! Hopefully I can get enough people to have some fun battles.

Go for it fella. I should be back in force in about 3 weeks. Once I am we can get something more serious started.

 

[Oshawa-Joe]

Go for it fella. I should be back in force in about 3 weeks. Once I am we can get something more serious started.

Didn't see any responses about the F1, so I would be interested in this. Add me to the list. I assume it's for 9:30 or 10 PM.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Your Steward Report for the Week​

Division 3

Wolfsatz / Wolfsatz

• Race 4 incident
  Level 2 - 6 points - halved to 3 points for concession made
  2 weeks probation

Division 4

pyxen / GTP_pyxen

• Race 6 , various incidents
  Level 2 – total of 12 points (points from race 6)
  4 weeks probation

Division 5

iroquois / iroquois

• Race 3 incident
  Level 1 - 2 points
  1 week probation

* * * * * * * * * *​

These changes affect the final standings and the prize winners.
zer05ive will be along soon to announce the prize winners.


Full final results can be found here.
***If you were penalized and would like further explanation regarding the incident, just PM your Division Steward and they will let you know what the stewards saw and our opinions on it.***

 

[hillracing]

ALL the rules in the OLR are good. I would like to add something about turn 1 to improve on it.

Example:

The First Turn Rule - It is the policy of this league for you to hold your position in turn 1 and not try to improve it unless the following situations occur: 1) The driver directly in front of you is asleep on the start. 2) The driver directly in front of you runs off course with at least 2 wheels off the track. 3) Obvious race incidents that must be avoided. 4) If you are able to fully draft past someone without incident or disruption to the other driver(s) with a reasonable distance before approaching the first turn.

Holding your position in the first turn is limited to the first turn on the first lap. This rule is in place for 2 reason: (1) to effectively avoid incidents in the first turn, and (2) so that drivers who are being careful and doing their part to avoid incidents in the 1st turn of are not taken advantage of. There is no sense in causing an incident in the congestion of the first turn. You can not win the race on the 1st turn or even the 1st lap. If a complaint is filed, the decision we make will be one that promotes an incident free first turn.

Please give me some facts that give me some reason to put this rule in place. In all the races I've done with SNAIL I can't remember more than one or two times there was a big mess in turn one. How often does this happen that we now need a new rule to prevent it? Also racing is not about never having any contact ever or there never being an accident. It's part of the sport. We are fighting for position on a lap to lap basis. What we should want is respect for each other while racing but don't kill the racing to try to get respect (or racecraft). If you want to start watching starts more and penalize bad judgment fine but don't stop those who are good at making up spots cleanly on the start from doing so. I'm sure I've made bad starts but I've also had plenty of starts where I made up a lot of spots and did it cleanly. Honestly if this rule is put in place I either will leave SNAIL or just ignore it. Flame on.

 

[Oshawa-Joe]

It there any interest in doing SNAIL X Event on Sunday night at 10pm?

There would be no passing in Turn 1 of Lap 1.

I'm thinking 7 laps each at the following tracks:

Tokyo
Daytona Road Course
Spa
Nurb GPF
Indy Road Course

We would do 6 minute Q followed by 7 lap race.
Use SNAIL points system and declare a X Event Champion at the end.

 

[Oshawa-Joe]

Please give me some facts that give me some reason to put this rule in place. In all the races I've done with SNAIL I can't remember more than one or two times there was a big mess in turn one. How often does this happen that we now need a new rule to prevent it? Also racing is not about never having any contact ever or there never being an accident. It's part of the sport. We are fighting for position on a lap to lap basis. What we should want is respect for each other while racing but don't kill the racing to try to get respect (or racecraft). If you want to start watching starts more and penalize bad judgment fine but don't stop those who are good at making up spots cleanly on the start from doing so. I'm sure I've made bad starts but I've also had plenty of starts where I made up a lot of spots and did it cleanly. Honestly if this rule is put in place I either will leave SNAIL or just ignore it. Flame on.

I'm pretty sure I read that passing is actually allowed...if it can be done cleanly. If one of the 4 passing situations didn't happen, there's a good chance it's a dive/push/rub. The rule would simply bring greater awareness to the need for caution and OLR, and not actually changing things a great deal.

 

[dabneyd]

It there any interest in doing SNAIL X Event on Sunday night at 10pm?

There would be no passing in Turn 1 of Lap 1.

I'm thinking 7 laps each at the following tracks:

Tokyo
Daytona Road Course
Spa
Nurb GPF
Indy Road Course

We would do 6 minute Q followed by 7 lap race.
Use SNAIL points system and declare a X Event Champion at the end.

I'm interested.

 

[Oshawa-Joe]

I'm interested.

Tuned or SPEC? I can offer a great high downforce set up that is safe and fast.

 

[IceWarden]

Screw it

 

[Oshawa-Joe]

I'm used to it. I've been in charge of large work groups (150-210) and there will always be the same 5% that resist change and are very vocal about it. The great majority will resist or fear it, but won't say anything. Very few will speak up for it even if they agree.

 

[dabneyd]

Tuned or SPEC? I can offer a great high downforce set up that is safe and fast.

Spec.

 

[Oshawa-Joe]

Screw it

What happened?

Spec.

Awesome...The SNAIL way it is! Hopefully we get more people.

 

[Luv2Coach]

I'm used to it. I've been in charge of large work groups (150-210) and there will always be the same 5% that resist change and are very vocal about it. The great majority will resist or fear it, but won't say anything. Very few will speak up for it even if they agree.

I heard that!

 

[SoCalRacer310]

So you want to make everyone tiptoe through turn one and not make any passes. What happens when the filed gets to turn two and someone gets over aggressive? What about the last turn of the race, drivers often get aggressive there too. Should we look at outlawing passes in the last turn as well?

It's racing. As soon as the green flag drops, you should be looking to improve your position. You should also be doing so in a way that is within the rules. If you can't follow the rules, you should be penalized. The first turn is no different from any other turn and the rules should be enforced just as they are at any other time.

If you want to make a decision to move over and stay out of the way because of what someone might do, then that's your decision and you will give up whatever positions that costs you. We don't need to take away passing in corner one just because of what some guys might do which is already against the rules. Suck it up, hold your line, and if you get moved out of the way, file a complaint.

+1

No passing in turn one is crazy. If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen.

 

[Oshawa-Joe]

Do you guys have selective reading?

@SoCal, if anyone should be agreeing with me, it is you. You even filed a Turn 1 incident report this week:tup:👍👍 but was overturned due to the other driver maybe, kinda, sorta had a little bit of overlap. Your race complaint motivated me to speak up today on this issue.

I think it was you. I better go check.

 

[JLBowler]

ALL the rules in the OLR are good. I would like to add something about turn 1 to improve on it.

Example:

The First Turn Rule - It is the policy of this league for you to hold your position in turn 1 and not try to improve it unless the following situations occur: 1) The driver directly in front of you is asleep on the start. 2) The driver directly in front of you runs off course with at least 2 wheels off the track. 3) Obvious race incidents that must be avoided. 4) If you are able to fully draft past someone without incident or disruption to the other driver(s) with a reasonable distance before approaching the first turn.

Holding your position in the first turn is limited to the first turn on the first lap. This rule is in place for 2 reason: (1) to effectively avoid incidents in the first turn, and (2) so that drivers who are being careful and doing their part to avoid incidents in the 1st turn of are not taken advantage of. There is no sense in causing an incident in the congestion of the first turn. You can not win the race on the 1st turn or even the 1st lap. If a complaint is filed, the decision we make will be one that promotes an incident free first turn.

The rules for making clean passes are already in place. Why is there a need to write in a special rule for turn one of a race? If anyone can give me a good answer to that question, I'm all ears. It seems to me the issue is enforcement and the unwillingness of people to file complaints about the start. Wouldn't the stewards reviewing the starts of the races take care of that? In reading you two reasons, the first is to prevent incidents. We already have rules in place about passing and corner rights. They apply to turn one just like they do anywhere else. The second reason seems to be there to protect they guy that would rather get out of the way than hold his line and possibly have to file a complaint. Isn't that guy the problem that we are dealing with? The guy that won't file a complaint about contact at the start.

To put it simply, don't overwrite the rules to try and cover every possible situation. Use the rules that already exist and apply them to the given situation.

 

[iroquois]

Attention SNAIL Stewards / kcheeb/ zer05ive

Please make your way to the Stewards Forum to vote on a proposed change to SNAIL OLR.

RE: "No passing on Turn 1 of Lap 1"

@drivers
Feel free to comment on this proposed change.

ahhh, keep it positive , and enjoy your day!

please, please, please no passing on turn 1 lap 1

 

[Oshawa-Joe]

Rules sometimes need to be changed...and I'm not big on Status Quo.

 

[JLBowler]

I have made my opinion known. I will no longer beat the horse trying to sell my opinion to anyone else. Whatever decision is made, I will deal with it accordingly when that time comes. That action could be anthing from wholeheartedly embracing the decision to leaving SNAIL. It all depends on which direction the leadership wants to take the league.

So, I'm not done beating the horse. I will not stand by while someone tries to take the racing out of my racing. It's just not the right thing to do.

 

[iroquois]

please, please, please no passing on turn 1 lap 1

unless you are clearly a car length ahead, then of course you can pass