1.02 Update live!

  • Thread starter alfaphlex
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smskeeter23
If the physics weren't cut so bad in offline as well I'd be inclined to agree with you.

Try knocking AI off their line and tell me they are running the same full on physics as the car you're driving.

Also the GPU isn't making the calculations for the AI, just interpreting what the cell has setup. If it's not creating the AI movements it's interpreting incoming packets. In the end it's just a different algorithm in each case referencing a database of attributes and object models. There shouldn't be a huge difference really.

In addition to that when offline the cell can simply track AI cars in terms of track position and render them when in view. Whatever physics are used are dropped out when they are off screen. However the online packets still come in and the cell has to discard that information (if it can or does) which still creates extra cell process cycles that aren't necessarily there during offline processing. Then compound that with the limited memory to store location data ect. Offline you could store it as a simple grid location based on a closing rate, online it has to be constantly updated from real position data vs a calculated rate.

I really am with @Rallywagon on this. It's just a difference of doing x vs y.



Edit: I may have started to just ramble there a bit, hmmmm.
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Mostly see my above post. But anyway I am sure you must be aware that the CELL and GPU can both handle either graphics or general processing tasks (and often CELL and especially the spus are used for graphical effects). I am not sure what you are getting at by mentioning that. Plus the online data packets are TINY. I recall an average of about 16KB/s in GT5P when I tested, per frame that is... God its 4am.. I am not doing the math but its much less than 1KB of data and considering the delivery method the majority of frames drawn would be drawn without any packets being delivered at that time. CPU and and especially memory overhead are almost nothing.

wumpushunter
@Rallywagon @smskeeter23 @nasanu I don't think the issue is so much a technical one as a gameplay one.

You can already pick a car about 100pp more powerful than the AI at the outset (cf. 600pp limit in the 500pp race), and even with an evenly matched car and the AI's ~30 second head start, it's not difficult to win many of the races by several seconds or more.

Without the artificial challenge/difficulty introduced with the rolling starts, you'd likely be in P1 by the first corner and proceed to leave the AI far, far behind.
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Could be that also considering both the karts and the rb jr cant be upgraded...
 
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nasanu
Not tyre smoke.. I have not experienced a large amount of lag in GT6 yet, usually playing with locals, however in GT5 when someone was either too far away or had saturated their connection it had telling effects on the physics. You could see (especially on the ring) that for one gravity was not simulated for opponent cars as if they experienced packet loss just as they approached a jump the car would keep heading up after the jump. Also you could see cars facing the wrong way but traveling straight. The physics are dumbed down to the point of simply 'keep doing what you are doing till the next update, then head for that location'. Offline the PS3 has to work everything out from the AI instructions to the physics those instructions act on.

I have also had this very discussion at beyond3D where actual racing game devs, not just game devs have confirmed that racing games have no reason to run full physics for online opponents. Now your argument is that pointing a car to a new coordinate is just as complex but really all it is is changing some variables. Update comes in, opponent car is now at x,y traveling at a speed in b direction, change values to match and run minimal physics to make it look right (wheels bounce and such). Computationally its nothing compared to a full car simulation.
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And why do you suppose that it runs that way? I am not arguing that the physics are dumbed down, I am arguing that the algorithm used to place cars between packets uses more resources then its given credit for. Its not just changing some varibles. It's a lot like a physics engine, its tracking where a racer was, is and predicts where he was headed. It calculates a lot more then just x and y. Further, The physics engine doesnt run separately for each car, it is an object of the game itself, one instance of the physics engine is put into place for all cars on the track, not for each car. Only the AI is separated for each car. So the same processing power needed to run the physics engine in single player, will be needed for online as well, since your car will need physics. The physics are slightly turned down for online play, I'll grant that. It's evident when taking a car from an offline race, and racing it online. That isn't because it only has one car to worry about, its because the PS3 can't handle powering the full physics engine, and running the online prediction algorithm as well. ANother reason why, once you get over so many cars on track at once, the room starts to degrade.
As for the far away thing. The further away a car is from you, the less priority its data stream gets. the reason you see them leaving track is because of how the prediction algorithm works. Its not because the physics aren't working way up there on the car thats 5 turns ahead. Its because there is a substanial gap in the packets updating the cars position. Which, like the slightly dumbing down of the physics, is done to compensate for the resources needed to keep closer cars looking smooth on track. This is of course, assuming that everyone on track has a grade A for awesome network connection with little latency and great ping.

Now, with all of that said, the best either of us are doing is speculating. Neither of us worked on GT6, neither of us have access to the source code, and neither of us know any of the developers involved with the GT series.
 
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Guys, I'm having an issue, my PS3 is not letting me download the v1.02 update. The first 2 tries I got and it gave me an error message. Is there something I need to do before downloading it or something?
 
@nasanu you are correct I actually totally forgot to add the spus' into the equation.

Either way both you and @Rallywagon make some good points but I'm gonna bow out now and watch with popcorn in hand to help keep the post count down in here :lol:
 
Rallywagon
And why do you suppose that it runs that way? I am not arguing that the physics are dumbed down, I am arguing that the algorithm used to place cars between packets uses more resources then its given credit for. Its not just changing some varibles. It's a lot like a physics engine, its tracking where a racer was, is and predicts where he was headed. It calculates a lot more then just x and y. Further, The physics engine doesnt run separately for each car, it is an object of the game itself, one instance of the physics engine is put into place for all cars on the track, not for each car. Only the AI is separated for each car. So the same processing power needed to run the physics engine in single player, will be needed for online as well, since your car will need physics. The physics are slightly turned down for online play, I'll grant that. It's evident when taking a car from an offline race, and racing it online. That isn't because it only has one car to worry about, its because the PS3 can't handle powering the full physics engine, and running the online prediction algorithm as well. ANother reason why, once you get over so many cars on track at once, the room starts to degrade.
As for the far away thing. The further away a car is from you, the less priority its data stream gets. the reason you see them leaving track is because of how the prediction algorithm works. Its not because the physics aren't working way up there on the car thats 5 turns ahead. Its because there is a substanial gap in the packets updating the cars position. Which, like the slightly dumbing down of the physics, is done to compensate for the resources needed to keep closer cars looking smooth on track. This is of course, assuming that everyone on track has a grade A for awesome network connection with little latency and great ping.
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Ah I give up. It works nothing like you think it does. Maybe tomorrow I'll dig up the beyond3D thread so you can read it from devs themselves, then you can tell them they programmed their games wrong.

BTW please read what I wrote properly before responding. I said nothing about cars far away and I specifically said what you said about packet loss or late arrival.

Oh and your are totally wrong about dumbed down physics online for your car. They are very much the same and nothing like what I was talking about.
 
RandomCarGuy17
Guys, I'm having an issue, my PS3 is not letting me download the v1.02 update. The first 2 tries I got and it gave me an error message. Is there something I need to do before downloading it or something?
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Happened to me too, seemed a network issue. Just try again.
 
Just updated, and my Mira still shows to have 588hp... I was getting worried here!

Edit: AAAAH! It 'fixes' itself as soon as you change to it :(
 
granturismo2014
Personal music is now working in races. They also added the personal music volume control like gt5.
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I been listening to- and adjusted my personal music from day one v1.00. In the fast option menu at a paused race. That what you talking about?
 
smskeeter23
@nasanu you are correct I actually totally forgot to add the spus' into the equation.

Either way both you and @Rallywagon make some good points but I'm gonna bow out now and watch with popcorn in hand to help keep the post count down in here :lol:
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No need, I'm done with the debate. Only makes sence to go on for so long. He's right(so he says) and I'm wrong (again, so he says) so I'll leave it at that.
 
RandomCarGuy17
Guys, I'm having an issue, my PS3 is not letting me download the v1.02 update. The first 2 tries I got and it gave me an error message. Is there something I need to do before downloading it or something?
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Happened to quite a lot of people, it reset on me too but only once. I´d say keep trying it´s probably what Oelix said ^.
 
redragon95tr
NOOOOOOOOO DAIHATSU MIRA IS GONE :(
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Oh man, I'm going to have to throw some racing softs and do some 'ring runs with mine before updating to 1.02. I did the tuner series with that car with sport hards and no traction control and was laying down rubber every time I accelerated out of a corner. 200 foot burnouts every time. Hilarious stuff.
 
khj94704
Oh man, I'm going to have to throw some racing softs and do some 'ring runs with mine before updating to 1.02. I did the tuner series with that car with sport hards and no traction control and was laying down rubber every time I accelerated out of a corner. 200 foot burnouts every time. Hilarious stuff.
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If yours is white and has no rims changed (or at least some decent ones) please upload a video to youtube!!! :(
 
Morphisor
Just updated, and my Mira still shows to have 588hp... I was getting worried here!

Edit: AAAAH! It 'fixes' itself as soon as you change to it :(
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It changed in the stats listed on the garage main page when I made it my current car. But in the car list, it still says 588 HP for me.

Too bad. I loved my "Weapon of Mass Ridiculousness."
 
Did I read somewhere earlier that the cap is back to $20M? If that is the case and you are over, you should buy until you get to 20M before loading 1.02.
 
Tired Tyres
What do you mean? Previously the timer starts when you cross the line so all AI start before the timer and don't get a first sector time on the first lap. Is this different now?
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The race starts and your laptime starts, too. Before the update your first laptime started when you crossed the line
 
I know this been mentioned that RA function can now be added to driving wheels and controller steering.

But I've tried it and there are two problems: I can't adjust ABS (why?) and the menu isn't visible when HUD is turned off.
 
:lol:

seeing as how most of the update is money related they seem to have gotten the memo that their economy was pretty crap out of the gate.
 

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