10/20/2007 Demo

[Stevisiov]

It seems taht way to me, although to be fair, I do not go on forza 2 that often these days. Maybe i will have a go again to night, to re-familierize myself, if the red ring of death doesn't try and stop me.

 

[Famine]

well when you are on the track, you can drive differently than on the road. you can push the car more, fighting against g-force and grip. which should put more pressure on steering.

Did I mention that my daily commute is 40 miles on the interstate?

And I have thrown my real-life car through some tight turns at high speeds, making the TCS come on, and driven it over 100mph (open road, no one around, I couldn't resist). Trust me, I know what pushing my car feels like and with the overly smooth electric assist power steering it gives me more road feel than this demo does

I'll grant you that there's not as much FFB as there could be, but I actually took my actual car on track:

Other than the fact that I didn't use more than 180 degrees of turn on the wheel at any point, physically it felt no different than bashing the twisties. Except a little less confined. Note the plates

However, I later took this out:

And it drove exactly like my car does when I've switched the engine off.

Now in GT, the steering feel would be identical between the cars...

 

[RacingFreak2k3]

Here is a nice challenge

• Nissan GT-R

• No aids

• Professional physics

• S2 tires

Now try and win. It's pretty hard and if you can do it you're very good.

I've only managed to do so cleanly just twice now out of many, many attempts.

Actually so far, i myself have been doing the same thing, except with some S1 tires....but it is soooo much fun to drive....even with a dualshock....i haven't gotten myself a wheel yet....and by the looks of it, many of the people here recommend it....i just need a setup tho, not just the wheel, that's what is keeping me from getting a DFP or G25.

 

[Red_Line]

I hate the fact that it even gives people a choice between ARCADE mode and Sim mode, I mean this is "the real drving simulator" right???

Anyways FFB feels good to me, better than GT4 at least, although 180 degrees is not a good idea and kinda wrecked it for me

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

I hate the fact that it even gives people a choice between ARCADE mode and Sim mode, I mean this is "the real drving simulator" right???

Right! Because giving players choices is always a bad thing!!! Booooo PD Booooo! No more choices!!!! We won't stand for such nonsense any longer!!!! Our tiny minds can't handle it.... force us all to play the exact same way each and every time!!!

Down with choices! Down with options! Down with PD!!!!!

[/SARCASM]

 

[kekke2000]

Right! Because giving players choices is always a bad thing!!! Booooo PD Booooo! No more choices!!!! We won't stand for such nonsense any longer!!!! Our tiny minds can't handle it.... force us all to play the exact same way each and every time!!!

Down with choices! Down with options! Down with PD!!!!!

[/SARCASM]

You have a good point but was this really necessary? There are other OPTIONS of expressing the point

 

[Red_Line]

No your entitled to express your view just as well as I am, I just simply hate the fact that there is arcade mode.

Our tiny minds can't handle it.... force us all to play the exact same way each and every time!!!

Down with choices! Down with options! Down with PD!!!!!

[/SARCASM]

Who said because a simulator tries to give you a life-like feeling means your going to play the same exact way every time... In fact sim mode means the physics actually create more variables for someone to deal with.

So it's better than hitting the same boring line over and over again w/o any challenges

Sorry but I cant see your point.

 

[Earth]

Well, I geuss GTR has no right calling itself a sim when it has an arcade mode as well

*sigh* Why do I even bother anymore?

 

[Stevisiov]

I will make it simple for you then. PD felt that a realistic simulations may be to difficult to use for casual players who may buy the game. Some people find games too hard and never play them agains, so PD decided have a realistic mode for the GT fans, and a arcade mode for the casual gamers, bearing in mind casual gamers make up the majority of sales.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Well, I geuss GTR has no right calling itself a sim when it has an arcade mode as well

*sigh* Why do I even bother anymore?

You have a good point but was this really necessary? There are other OPTIONS of expressing the point

But I hate options!

I will make it simple for you then. PD felt that a realistic simulations may be to difficult to use for casual players who may buy the game. Some people find games too hard and never play them agains, so PD decided have a realistic mode for the GT fans, and a arcade mode for the casual gamers, bearing in mind casual gamers make up the majority of sales.

BINGO! Besides, the beauty of options is.... only you are the one that decides which to use. If you don't like an option, don't use it, simple as that really.

 

[Red_Line]

Well, I geuss GTR has no right calling itself a sim when it has an arcade mode as well

*sigh* Why do I even bother anymore?

Now your just twisting my words, I didnt say it wasnt a sim because it had arcade mode, I said I hated the fact that it had arcade mode.

 

[Beerz]

Now your just twisting my words, I didnt say it wasnt a sim because it had arcade mode, I said I hated the fact that it had arcade mode.

you don't have to use it, you know? there are 'options'...

 

[FoolKiller]

Anyways FFB feels good to me, better than GT4 at least, although 180 degrees is not a good idea and kinda wrecked it for me

180 degrees? As in you tried it in 180 degree (200 degree technically) mode or you don't realize that it has a 900 degree mode?

 

[Stevisiov]

BINGO! Besides, the beauty of options is.... only you are the one that decides which to use. If you don't like an option, don't use it, simple as that really.

To true, the best games always seem to have loads of options, thats why they are so succesful, i suppose it can be likened to the fact that people like freedom, I have no idea why this guy would like limited freedom?

 

[Dave A]

I can't see how offering people the choice is a bad thing, it's a no brainer. If someone doesn't want it to be as realistic as the sim mode is, then they choose the arcade physics (though I don't think they're called that).

PD did explain it a few weeks ago, they said that thier fan base was divided into two camps, one camp said it was too difficult to control the cars, the other said it awsn't realistic enough. Well, bingo, here's the answer, give both camps what they want. I don't know about you, but if there's an option in a game that I don't like and I'm not forced to use, I generally don't care, and near enough forget it's there.

 

[Famine]

Someone the other day remarked to me that GT's physics weren't realistic. They then went on to bark about some other game where he was driving the Nuerburgring in the snow. Apparently it looked ace. But his XJ220 was a bit skittish at the tail.

I remarked that:

If you can drive an XJ220 on the 'Ring in snow, the physics are wrong. Walter Rohrl would take one look and tell you to 🤬 off.

Race cars are, for the most part, really, really hard to drive. If we strove for totally realistic physics, most of us wouldn't be able to drive most of the cars at anywhere near the speeds we get them round circuits in GT. The edge has to be taken off for almost all of us mere mortals.

 

[Earth]

That's hilarious Famine

And you are right about racecars as well. If a game were to somehow simulate driving a racecar perfectly then most of us would not be able to get within 5 seconds of an average professional lap.

Heh, even Sebastian Loeb has a hard time staying on pace at Le Mans, what makes you think we could?

 

[JAGUAR1977]

I'd dissagree, racecars are no more difficult to drive than a high performance roadcar.

The difficulty comes when you push the car to it's limits, which is also the case for a humble family car.

With practice any half decent driver could get within 2 seconds of a pro, but the pro is consistent and can put in hot laps when the pressures on, i.e qualifying.

When online racing comes to GT5 we'll soon know those who can put in blistering laps, but aren't consistent, and often crash.

 

[land sea air]

I'd dissagree, racecars are no more difficult to drive than a high performance roadcar.

The difficulty comes when you push the car to it's limits, which is also the case for a humble family car.

it's not that simple, at the very least a road car will have limits that approach more gradually and with more warning than a race car.

 

[Dave A]

I'd dissagree, racecars are no more difficult to drive than a high performance roadcar.

The difficulty comes when you push the car to it's limits, which is also the case for a humble family car.

With practice any half decent driver could get within 2 seconds of a pro, but the pro is consistent and can put in hot laps when the pressures on, i.e qualifying.

When online racing comes to GT5 we'll soon know those who can put in blistering laps, but aren't consistent, and often crash.

No, your wrong. And I don't mean as in, your opinion is wrong. I mean, your wrong.

Pushing a race car and pushing a road car to their limits are two very, very different things. Road cars and race cars are setup nothing like each other. And no, an amature probably couldn't get within 2 seconds of a proefssional lap time, that would put an amature like me in a position good enough to qualify for every Formula 1 race out there. Professionals struggle to get within a second or two of the faster professionals, I have no idea at all where you got that misconcieved notion from.

No offence intended if I sound hostile, I'm not trying to be, but that post of yours is wrong.

 

[ND4SPD]

Saw something weird, I was watching the the Daytona preview vid on the demo and I was watching the cars in the back and I noticed that one of the vipers had made contact with one of the TVR's and the ensuing contact made the viper wobbly then spun to the inside coming into turn one the slid up into the banking and slamming drivers side into the wall. It wasn't really weird, but quite cool. It actually looked like a real crash, sans the damage though.

 

[Mykolas]

So we're going to compare the sounds of RACE CARS to the sounds of a Daihtsu and Luxury cars?

Something tells me that some believe every car, no matter if it is just a economy car, should sound like something out of fast and the furious.

No. No...no. The cars in the demo don't sound different enough from the same cars in Gt4. The racecars wouldn't either given that pattern. If the racecars sounded awesome, it'd mean people would be satisfied with the sedans.

The Nissan sounds only relatively better, that doesn't mean it sounds right. In reality the Nissan would sound cooler then the sedans aswell...

Do a quick search on youtube for a stock bmw 335, you'll see the difference. Moreover its what the sounds in the teaser showed us. Unless Yamauchi is tenderizing us as I said before..

As for the wheel issues, what do you expect when the hand's range is just 100 degrees but the DFP range 900degrees

I expect the wheel to turn 900 degrees in the game, even if that means having the option to remove the hands. Seems reasonable, after all its supposedly a highly incomplete demo..

Regardless, there should be an immediate response. Videos people posted up doesn't seem to show that, there was a significant delay. The car may still respond the way it should which may be why people don't complain, or its an illusion because of the quality of the video. I wanted to know what the case is.

 

[land sea air]

think of it this way, if you are driving a sports car a skidpad and producing 1 G of cornering force that means there is about 1 times the entire vehicles weight pushing sideways against the vehicle, if the sports car starts to break loose at 1 G it will most likely do so rather progressively because of the relatively low G force trying to move the vehicle.

Now you have a 2000 race car going much faster around the same skidpad it could be producing 3gs cornering force meaning the vehicle has 3 times its own weight trying to divert it from it's intended path. When the race car finally does break loose (lets say it happens at 3.5 lateral Gs) instead of the vehicles own weight breaking it loose it will have 3 and a half times its own weight pushing sideways. this will cause a much more rapid loss of control.

(sorry if it's a little confusing but this is the easiest way for me to explain it)

 

[Red_Line]

180 degrees? As in you tried it in 180 degree (200 degree technically) mode or you don't realize that it has a 900 degree mode?

GT5 Prologue doesn't have 900 degrees

 

[JAGUAR1977]

No, your wrong. And I don't mean as in, your opinion is wrong. I mean, your wrong.

Pushing a race car and pushing a road car to their limits are two very, very different things. Road cars and race cars are setup nothing like each other. And no, an amature probably couldn't get within 2 seconds of a proefssional lap time, that would put an amature like me in a position good enough to qualify for every Formula 1 race out there. Professionals struggle to get within a second or two of the faster professionals, I have no idea at all where you got that misconcieved notion from.

No offence intended if I sound hostile, I'm not trying to be, but that post of yours is wrong.

Sorry but amateur, gentlemen drivers, are competing every other weekend in top level series like the ALMS and LMS.

Someone like Mike Newton at RML Lola can lap within 1-1.5 seconds of a top pro driver like Tommy Erdos.

Erdos himself would be no more than a second off the pace of an F1 driver at the top of his game, in any given car.

Newton's pace has increased with experience and tuition, and thats the key, practice.

Another driver is Jonh Field who often puts up comparable performances with top, factory Porsche drivers like Roman Dumas and Sascha Massen.

 

[land sea air]

Sorry but amateur, gentlemen drivers, are competing every other weekend in top level series like the ALMS and LMS.

Someone like Mike Newton at RML Lola can lap within 1-1.5 seconds of a top pro driver like Tommy Erdos.

Erdos himself would be no more than a second off the pace of an F1 driver at the top of his game in any given car.

Newton's pace has increased with experience, and thats the key, practice.

I would imagine that even the "amateur gentleman drivers" competing in ALMS have vastly more experience than any normal driver. You don't just decide "I'm going to pick up a Lola and head over to the track". Like you say "Newton's pace has increased with experience, and thats the key, practice.

 

[JAGUAR1977]

I would imagine that even the "amateur gentleman drivers" competing in ALMS have vastly more experience than any normal driver. You don't just decide "I'm going to pick up a Lola and head over to the track". Like you say "Newton's pace has increased with experience, and thats the key, practice.

Well I thought that would have been obvious.

With a game you can play at home, at any time, there's no reason not to make the sim mode as realistic as possible. Already many have put hours into a simple demo, it takes much longer to rack up that kind of experience in the real world.

 

[Dave A]

Practice isnt the only key, there's natural ability. The vast majority of people probably don't have the skill to be that competetive, it's not a case of drive this car for x hours at this track and you'll be good. Everybody reaches a certain level and that will be as far as they can go, some reach it further a long than others, no one is the same.

I can tell you now, no matter how much practice my mum had, she would never have the ability to race an LMP car (even in her prime, bless) competetively at LeMans. As a kid I was able to jump into a kart and lap a track pretty well for "just someone", my mates couldn't. I'm not a good driver by any means, I just understand racing lines and some basic stuff, and that is stuff that makles me faster than someone who doesn't. But I know that I could have 100 hours a week at a track and my improvment would be slow, and would stop shortly after. I would never be able to compete with the Damon Hills and Kimi Raikonenes of the racing worl no matter how much I tried despite mknowing about racing lines, braking points and to a degree, understanding what a car does when you drive it fast. I don't have the natural ability to do it. I can box, I have the natural ability to do that, but not for professional motosports.

 

[godzilla_GTR]

the force feedback is Great....If your using racing tyres. They give you a great feel and pretty much eliminate the dead zone aswell.

 

[Joey D]

Just played the demo, first impression is that it's quite good, there are a lot of things I like about it. The amount of cars on track is rather impressive as is the game graphically as well.

I still have an issue with how the cars handle though, everything still has way to much understeer to be realistic in my opinion. In high powered rear drive cars the back should step out when you punch it through a turn.

I do like how the body roll is getting towards the more realistic side of things, better then how it was in Forza, but I still do not think it's good enough. I will be curious to drive a car in the game that I've driving in real life to see how it compares.

I know it's just a demo and I'm not going to be real critical of it yet. It's a good start and I can't wait for the finished product.