10/20/2007 Demo

[FoolKiller]

GT5 Prologue doesn't have 900 degrees

My DFP works in full 900 degree mode, even if the animation stops at 200 degrees.

I bet you havent set 'professional' physics. Set to professional (check the translation thread if you are unsure which setting it is) and take out the IS-F, gun it out of a bend and the rear will step out plenty.

And make sure to get off the R series of tires.

But without the English demo it's almost like PD is ignoring it's customer base in Europe, North American, Australia, and New Zealand, which I assume is a rather large market for them. Everyone I know with a PS2 has a copy of GT4. I just think they are shooting themselves in the foot by not catering to more people.

Well, judging by the choice of cars, the timing, the unveiling, etc I would assume this was really just meant as a Tokyo Motor Show tie-in. It would be cool if they did the same for one of the big shows in the US, like New York, LA, or Detroit and then had a list of cars showing in the US racing on Laguna Seca or something.

 

[Jay]

And make sure to get off the R series of tires.

Oh yes that too, I forgot as I never use the R tyres.

 

[FoolKiller]

Oh yes that too, I forgot as I never use the R tyres.

Before I had the translations I was on R3s since they are default. Now I try to do S2 or S3, but occasionally kick in the R1s on the Lexus.


Tonight I think I might hook my PS3 to my tuner card on my PC and capture some videos. I will most likely use R3s then just to increase my chances of getting a clean lap on the first try.





And I will be finished before the scheduled Warhawk game tonight

 

[Joey D]

Well, judging by the choice of cars, the timing, the unveiling, etc I would assume this was really just meant as a Tokyo Motor Show tie-in. It would be cool if they did the same for one of the big shows in the US, like New York, LA, or Detroit and then had a list of cars showing in the US racing on Laguna Seca or something.

Good point, I forgot about the Tokyo Motor Show is going on right now. Having American cars and tracks really isn't a big issue for me, if we get them fine, if not I'm not really going to complain. But once again you are right, it would be really cool to see different releases for different auto shows.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

I have read all the posts, and I got the general feeling Kamus moved on from your intial discussions only to be harrased by you and others whilst chatting about a different discussion.

Well seeing as how one's feelings are their own, I suppose we will have to agree to disagree.

As far as these "gross exagerations" as you say go,maybe your confusing it with Kamus's passion on the particular subject (physics/AI etc)

There is no confusing "passion" with "gross exaggerations". One can most certainly be passionate about something and still remain unbiased and truthful. I have no problem with anyone being passionate, in fact, that's a good thing. What isn't a good thing is when they post gross exaggerations, misleading information, and untruths. Wouldn't you at least agree with that?

He is probably less tactful in his approach than others (not referring to those that think things need attention in GT and are too scared to upset PD by pointing them out)

Who has shown any fear in upsetting PD? If anything, it has been quite the opposite, with many reasonable and unreasonable criticisms of PD's games. There are countess threads on the subject thorughout the GTP forums including several on this demo alone.

Geez... this is exactly what I'm talking about. Instead of having a reasonable discussion, some people have to throw in such ridiculous assumptions in a fairly obvious attempt to put down those that have a different opinion then themselves.

In closing, I dont want to be here defending people,I want to learn more about GT....without the needless posts that say "your stupid,you suck yada,yada"

Well, that's the rub then... because that's exactly what you did when you jumped in, called Earth and I out as being childish and posting crap.. and defending Kamus... so unless someone had a gun to your head and forced you to make that post, it's fairly clear that while perhaps you may not want to be here defending people and not have to read posts that say "your stupid,you suck yada,yada"... you apparently don't mind doing the things you don't want others to do yourself. I believe there is a word that accurately describes that, but HERE is a polite and appropriate one.


Now when you are ready to stop defending people, and making needless posts that say "your posts are crap and you are being childish", and instead you, Kamus, or anyone else wants to have a calm, reasonable, and intelligent discussion without having to resort to gross exaggerations and or disguising personal subjective opinions as unquestionable object facts, then by all means I will look forward to everything you, Kamus, and everyone else has to say, even if we might not agree with each other's personal opinions. 👍

 

[turbomp301]

Well, well, well, I've been gone for a couple days and Kamus goes off the deep end.

Kamus, I'm sorry, but i really think your an idiot.

You can have your opinions and what not, more power to you, but know that your opinions are in the minority for a reason, THEY ARE INNACCURATE AND DUMB.

Again, sorry, I'm not going to write a novel explaining myself. I'm just going to skip to the last page and it says "Kamus is an idiot. The End."

 

[Jedi2016]

Can we get this back into a discussion about the demo, please?

 

[turbomp301]

Can we get this back into a discussion about the demo, please?

its a great start to a great game.

what else needs to be said?

 

[Tenacious D]

After playing this for two days now I feel very good about the physics engine. The developers have done a fantastic job improving on GT4. I can't even play GT4 the same anymore after playing this! I don't want to play GT4 after this!

Serious.

GT4 had good fundamentals, I'm not bashing it, just using it for comparision. I still have love for that game too, but GT5 Prologue Demo has definitely improved on the driving dynamics in regards to braking, tire grip and feel, understeer to oversteer transitions, countersteering and throttle steering control. With only having two days playing time, by playing the game with the Logitech G25 wheel with simulation mode and all driving aids off, I can immediately feel the improved physics.

This is uncanny. I fired up GT4 to check out the improvements and to do some photos of the Ford GT LeMans car. Man... the differences in driving dynamics are both subtle and dramatic at the same time. GT4 does have some very good essentials as far as driving dynamics, but somehow the Prologue demo makes it feel... primitive in comparison. I'm particularly struck by the fact that as good as Forza 2 is in certain areas, it didn't do that for me.

If Kazunori-dono gives me a proper livery editor and racing modification, I'll never look Microsoft's way ever again. Now, back to racing!

 

[V1P3R]

Can't seem to d/l the newest GT TV vid. The Tokyo motor show vid.

 

[Earth]

Can't seem to d/l the newest GT TV vid. The Tokyo motor show vid.

That's what I thought at first because the download screen does not look the same, but it's just a real long download, 500+mbs

This demo is 720mbs

The previews of the 2 other tracks included in this demo are not simple videos, they are the actual tracks in replay mode, so this leads me to believe Daytona and Fuji are included in the 720mb download but are of course undriveable. Many unplayable cars are in the demo as well, so they must be modeled and inside the 720mb download

So 720mbs includes 3 tracks and I'm guessing around 25 different cars.

There isn't a high definition intro video, that is around 100mbs right there

GT:HD - 1 track + 10 cars MINUS intro video = 520mbs

GT5 Demo - 3 tracks + 25 cars = 720mbs

My geuss is the GT5 downloadable game will not exceed 2 GBs

 

[kekke2000]

That's what I thought at first because the download screen does not look the same, but it's just a real long download, 500+mbs

This demo is 720mbs

The previews of the 2 other tracks included in this demo are not simple videos, they are the actual tracks in replay mode, so this leads me to believe Daytona and Fuji are included in the 720mb download but are of course undriveable. Many unplayable cars are in the demo as well, so they must be modeled and inside the 720mb download

So 720mbs includes 3 tracks and I'm guessing around 25 different cars.

There isn't a high definition intro video, that is around 100mbs right there

GT:HD - 1 track + 10 cars MINUS intro video = 520mbs

GT5 Demo - 3 tracks + 25 cars = 720mbs

My geuss is the GT5 downloadable game will not exceed 2 GBs

I never thought of it that way. But you're right! But most cars don't have interior e.t.c. Still feels weird that over 50% of GT5 Prologue is in the demo one way or another.

 

[Mykolas]

Here we go again with the old "go listen to it on YouTube" excuse.

• Please, tell me this, how do you know for sure if a car on a YouTube video has been modified in any way?
• How do you know for sure if it has not been tuned in any way other than stock?
• How do you know for sure the car is right off the assembly line?
• Are you aware that a car over time can, and usually do experience changes in their "sound"?
• Are you aware that even two cars of the exact same model can and often do sound slightly different?
• How do you know for sure what the RPMs were at?
• Are you aware that cars will sound differently depending on the acoustics of the area they are in, the ambient temperatures, the condition of the engine, etc, etc etc?
• How do you know for sure where exactly the microphone was placed to record the sound? With zoom lenses, and seperate mics, it could be any where, right?
• Are you aware that the type of recording equipment used to "capture" the sound will effect how it sounds when played back?
• How do you know for sure the exact type of recording equipment that was used?
• How do you know for sure if the audio has at all been modified on a YouTube video?
• Are you aware that YouTube uses compression schemes that can and does lower the quality of the audio, and especially the video?

There are more variables as well... but I seriously hope any number of these should be ample evidence that comparing what you hear from some internet video is in no conceivable way a reasonable comparison for what a car "should sound like".

We got it... you have a strong personal opinion/preference for a particular kind of sound... perhaps you want all cars to sound like YouTube videos... but please do not continue to suggest that this is in any way an accurate way of determining whether a recorded car sound is the same as the real thing. There are simply far too many variables for it to be anything but a subjective opinion.

Details details details...you are paying attention to unnecessary details. Sift through the clutter and find clarity mate. You should see that it is quite plain. The bottom line is determined by ear, plain and simple.

What I say is based upon dozens of videos I watch on YouTube of cars. Even if a particular video has a modified car, why is it that there is never a situation where a car can sound like that in Gt4? or if a video has a bias towards any of the points you mentioned for that matter. The demo is no different, there isn't even any violent rush of noise as a full grid of cars passes by, just like Gt4. And I definetly shouldn't need some elaborate audio system to hear an improvement like that. It should be evident on a very mediocre TV for it to be a legitimate next-gen improvement, since you'd hear the proper essence of the sound on a televised racing event on the same mediocre TV.

The teasers are all you need, it should seem plain to you. You actually hear the violent scream as the cars drive by. Thanks to PD, teasers are very much a tease.

 

[Robin]

This exactly like GT4 prologue containing alot of other part playable tracks and cars if it was hacked (like Hong Kong, Las Vegas and also the version of SSR5 that never was included in the final release)...... The only problem this time is that its a download not a disc to harder to unlock...

However, full prologue will be on disc so maybe people will be able to mess around with that. PD always put easter eggs in their releases!

Robin

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Details details details...you are paying attention to unnecessary details. Sift through the clutter and find clarity mate. You should see that it is quite plain.

I guess some people think facts are unnecessary, don't deserve any attention, and only get in the way of a steadfast personal opinion.

What was it that Dobie said…

“Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.”

Oh well... by all means keep enjoying the sonic qualities and accuracies of those gloriously highly compressed YouTube videos from who knows where and by who knows how. I bet they are even better in 7.1 surround sound played through some B&W Nautilus speakers huh?

Hopefully you won't also plan on using YouTube videos to show how real lap times are nothing like GT5, and like the sounds, proves PD screwed up and GT5 isn't at all close to being realistic.

Regardless of that, one thing is clear, and that is that at this point the only reasonable choice we have at this point is to agree to disagree... and I'm all to happy to let the evidence that has already been presented in this thread support my position.

 

[Mykolas]

“Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.”

Yeah well the best story obviously is that PD is just bottom line amazing no matter what it does.

Your steadfast fanboyish spirit prevents you from seeing the obvious faults. And all you have to back you up is a thread with many other fanboyish spirits.

Hopefully you won't also plan on using YouTube videos to show how real lap times are nothing like GT5, and like the sounds, proves PD screwed up and GT5 isn't at all close to being realistic.

What a pathetic oversimplification.

and I'm all to happy to let the evidence that has already been presented in this thread support my position.

Yet you ignore the most basic evidence of all. You heard proper sounds from the earlier teasers that we all hoped we'd see. Continue to enjoy cars that gracefully hum by you. No need to agree to disagree, you should simply agree, and if you were honest with your senses, you would.

 

[oruji]

Regarding the sound, it seems like the sound of cars passing by when you're in the pit are quite good. Also, the sound of other cars around you seems to be better too.

 

[land sea air]

heres an idea, how about everyone stops with the accusations, name calling, and baiting ok? this is a video game that EVERYONE is going to feel differently about as far as how it should be so enough already.

 

[Quattro20v]

Your steadfast fanboyish spirit prevents you from seeing the obvious faults. And all you have to back you up is a thread with many other fanboyish spirits.

I have to agree.

 

[gargleblaster]

I bet they are even better in 7.1 surround sound played through some B&W Nautilus speakers huh?

No wonder... if you think B&W will reveal the full fidelity of YouTube, you're seriously mistaken.

3 years ago, I spent about $120k building the following setup, which is now dedicated to critical listening of YouTube engine tones:

Audio Research pre-amp;
1 pr. VTL mono-bloc power amps
Wilson Grand Slam loudspeakers
Cardas cables

I used to religiously attend the Formula One race at Indy along with a few ALMS races around the country. After building the system above, I can't attend live motor racing events anymore, as the live events don't hold a candle to the sounds that come from the highly compressed YouTube vids piped through a 6-figure audiophile system. Heck, my Cardas cables alone cost more than your $12k B&W speakers.

Amateur.

 

[Earth]

Go to chase view, press L2 to look behind you, then run into a barrier. Look at your driver's head.

 

[Tenacious D]

Mykolas, there are some graphical issues with the demo too. But instead of throwing a fit, why don't you hold off until we get some solid news of how Gran Turismo 5 itself is going to sound, look and feel. For that matter, what if Prologue is entirely different in sound from the downloadable demo. Will you come on and apologize profusely?

This game is showing very nice improvement in several areas, such as the AI which several people insisted was still going to suck. And for pete's sake, Kazunori-dono owns a Ford GT and a Porsche 911 or two. He hangs out routinely with automakers and has driven many of their cars personally. He knows what a real car sounds like.

But you have to understand that every game gets reality "compressed" so that it looses something in the translation. Forza 2 has some very good sound samples, but the source samples they gave out at their website are even better. Unfortunately when you want to make a game, you have to have things like sounds which serve a wide range of conditions and blend seamlessly as possible with related samples. This inevitably means a lack of realism to one extent or another. As a hobbyist sound designer, I can tell you that matching samples with related samples is as challenging as modeling a car, and often you have to fudge something.

The demo is a work in progress. By definition, that means some elements are far from finished. Try and keep that in mind. That to you other naysayers too.

 

[Earth]

And the reason you don't see "Work in Progress" plastered everywhere like most demos is because they don't want to detour you from buying Prologue

If GT5 was a couple of weeks away and this was the demo there would be legetimate reasons to be concerned

Anybody think/HOPE their is the possibility they could release this demo in the US Playstation store but this time with the Daytona track?

 

[gt3killer]

I have no problems with people critizing the game I think it's interesting to hear ppl's thoughts with this demo. I'm going about with the attitude that this game is a work in progress. For free demo its really good so their is no doubt in my mind that this game will be great come DEC and even better when the finally ver of GT5 is released.

Sony will probably release a US demo when the JPN ver of GT5P drops haha...

 

[godzilla_GTR]

Thanks for the thread link 👍.

But without the English demo it's almost like PD is ignoring it's customer base in Europe, North American, Australia, and New Zealand, which I assume is a rather large market for them. Everyone I know with a PS2 has a copy of GT4. I just think they are shooting themselves in the foot by not catering to more people.

And no this doesn't detract from the game play (I know someone will accuse me of hating on GT5 or something), I mean I honestly think it's going to be an awesome game based on the demo. I just wish I could some what read it.

I don't feel abandoned by PD down here in NZ as im pretty sure we were one of(if not thee) 1st non NTSC/J country to get GT4, so im very confident in getting GT5 over. I will still however get it of the japanese store on the 11-13th of december, if my visa will work(should do, it work's for ebay on paypal etc). Then i will buy it with the box etc when it comes out over here.

 

[Mykolas]

[QUOTE-"Tenacious D"]For that matter, what if Prologue is entirely different in sound from the downloadable demo. Will you come on and apologize profusely?[/QUOTE]

No. But I wouldn't be surprised if the sound improved. Kazunori may have purposely held back on this demo to reward all the fanboy faithfulness, so that they can "Aha!" the naysayers. But the naysayers were logical all along. All I have to do is keep a possibility open in the back of my mind, which I do.

The ole "this is a work in progress, wait till fill Prologue demo or final version" excuse can't cut it for so long on a basic element like this.

He hangs out routinely with automakers and has driven many of their cars personally. He knows what a real car sounds like.

Thats what really keeps my faith alive. But the fact remains, the teaser's sound was perfect. Demo till now is crap.

I've had my fill.

 

[Tenacious D]

I went back to Forza 2 tonight, and... darn, if now it doesn't feel primitive too. Some of you guys obviously feel differently, but I'm really aching to get my hands on Prologue.

Gran Turismo on the PS3 feels so strange to me now. It's the same sort of effect that I felt when Final Fantasy went to the Playstation. It didn't seem like Final Fantasy any more, but some whole new creature. Not entirely for the good necessarily, but it moved forward. Gran Turismo however seems like some weird "quantum leap" game. I just wish I could wake up and see the game next to my PS3.

 

[oruji]

GT improves its physics every time they release a new one. Enough improvement or not is debatable. What is funny, though, is that, when the last one was out, I felt like "Wow! This is pretty good! I wonder how they'd improve next time.". And sure enough, they did. And it becomes very obvious when you go back and play the previous one. As much as I'd like to, I cannot go back and play it. It doesn't feel right anymore.

 

[kekke2000]

GT improves its physics every time they release a new one. Enough improvement or not is debatable. What is funny, though, is that, when the last one was out, I felt like "Wow! This is pretty good! I wonder how they'd improve next time.". And sure enough, they did. And it becomes very obvious when you go back and play the previous one. As much as I'd like to, I cannot go back and play it. It doesn't feel right anymore.

I know, it hurts to break up with GT4 when it's over a year left until GT5. What will i do this time?

 

[Skid Mark 33]

In fact I do, but nevermind that.

For someone who is so proud and keen to stress his own education-degree in his signature, you're just a bit too lazy my friend .

No hard feelings though .

You talk more than one language, cool. I'm one of the boring one's. The only language I can talk is English, but it's ok because I live in a country that almost everyone talks English, and guess what country that is...