- 4,455
- São Paulo / Bra
- diegorborges82
Hi all... there's some discussion about these on some other threads but often they go a bit more general, then I decided to do this thread to talk about what 2.09 update may have changed regarding tire and suspension behavior.
First of all, I consider myself a "bit above the average player", not a "pro" but I can say that I play GT5 a lot, since day 1... I use the DS3 (not much spare cash to buy a proper rig) with only ABS on 1... in some older cars I use no-ABS (even knowing that no-ABS driving means more than only the anti-lock system).
My feelings are that the tire model may be a bit (I said A BIT) more complex, or PD just made some parameters more progressive... the way the car gain/loses traction feels less "on/off", one of the problems I think GT5 always had. Plus, related by some, the cars are keeping more momentum, you feel more the weight transfers leading to understeer if you don't plan a good corner entrance. Weight is easier to feel on bigger cars and the impact on tuned vs. stock suspensions are more noticeable.
Last night I spent some hours racing a bone stock MP4-12C in the Supercar Festival seasonal and found it harder to extract the full potential of it... had some unexpected understeer on some moments and I was struggling to keep up with the AI using the stock Sports Hard tires. Changed to Sports Soft, things went a bit better (as the AI was using SS too) but the Sports tires in general feel less grippy on corners but more grippy on straight line accelerations.
Again, I'm not a pro and I have basic knowledge on tire behavior, so please, all of you that have proper rig/setups and the proper knowledge on the subject, give your opinions on what have changed (of course, feedback from everyone is welcome! )...
Sorry if I may be exagerating on some aspects (placebo sometimes hits GT5 users hard, you know) but I would like to see some more detailed comments about it by those who really are interested in this subject.
Below, I'm quoting an awesome input by Amar that looks a lot more accurate than what I felt about it (hope there's no problem using your words, Amar)
Some other inputs I extracted from other threads:
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First of all, I consider myself a "bit above the average player", not a "pro" but I can say that I play GT5 a lot, since day 1... I use the DS3 (not much spare cash to buy a proper rig) with only ABS on 1... in some older cars I use no-ABS (even knowing that no-ABS driving means more than only the anti-lock system).
My feelings are that the tire model may be a bit (I said A BIT) more complex, or PD just made some parameters more progressive... the way the car gain/loses traction feels less "on/off", one of the problems I think GT5 always had. Plus, related by some, the cars are keeping more momentum, you feel more the weight transfers leading to understeer if you don't plan a good corner entrance. Weight is easier to feel on bigger cars and the impact on tuned vs. stock suspensions are more noticeable.
Last night I spent some hours racing a bone stock MP4-12C in the Supercar Festival seasonal and found it harder to extract the full potential of it... had some unexpected understeer on some moments and I was struggling to keep up with the AI using the stock Sports Hard tires. Changed to Sports Soft, things went a bit better (as the AI was using SS too) but the Sports tires in general feel less grippy on corners but more grippy on straight line accelerations.
Again, I'm not a pro and I have basic knowledge on tire behavior, so please, all of you that have proper rig/setups and the proper knowledge on the subject, give your opinions on what have changed (of course, feedback from everyone is welcome! )...
Sorry if I may be exagerating on some aspects (placebo sometimes hits GT5 users hard, you know) but I would like to see some more detailed comments about it by those who really are interested in this subject.
Below, I'm quoting an awesome input by Amar that looks a lot more accurate than what I felt about it (hope there's no problem using your words, Amar)
After testing the 2.09 physics in my usual GTPElitist™ environment (proper wheel, pedals, no assists, no ABS, track properties set to Real, usage of low-grade tyre compounds, full stock vehicles, etc..), I have to conclude how this update is nothing less then great.
The complete sensation of driving in online is now more believable. Ice Effect™ is almost no more, you can clearly feel the grip-thereshold on the wheel, you can partially recover from high-speed skidding by proper modulation of acceleration/straight-line-braking and my favorite part - braking distances are finally moved towards Realm of Reality™, where you need to start braking very, very, very early on Comfort tyres in order to actually manage to slow down prior to apex.
But my favorite part is this: finally you can drive super-sports cars on Comfort tyres without nasty Ice Effect™ (it was possible before, but not without serious wheelspins and such, which was challenging, but not very realistic). I tested F40, MC4-12C, Enzo and Yellowbird (all cars full stock) on Comfort Soft compound and each and every one of them drives like a charm. Of course, you have to take into account elevations of the corners, track elevations, bumps, kerbs and speed of approach while braking, but feel of driving those beasts on proper compound - without ned to go into semi-slick territory - is great.
I love the new property of more pronounced loss the FFB effect if you lose the grip (red tyres). There is no retain of control, car just goes straight until grip is back. Great.
To conclude, I really appreciate what they've done with this update. Main control now lays in your accelerator pedal where gentle modulations of pressure affects the mechanical grip much more then before. New properties of tyres (where grip levels have definitely been balanced towards more realistic) allows for normal driving of high-powered cars on compound that should be usual if driving them in stock conditions (Comfort). Grip of tyres is more realistic, they absorb lateral and longitudinal movements of the chassis more naturally, resulting with more believable sensation of driving.
I also welcome the new addition of more "loose" model of barycenter which finally allowed the suspension to lift-off the wheels from the ground.
Od course, there are many things that should be improved further (low speed physics would dramatically improve if effects of torque-rev in 1st and 2nd gears would be made less dramatic and more realistic - which would also result with actual standing start getting variable grip more dependable of acceleration modulation, influencing development of grip-property for tyres while cold), but when I look back to times of Prologue and GT5 V1.0 - this is one of the greatest physics update for this game so far IMO.
Some other inputs I extracted from other threads:
I'm not sure if I was imagining things, but after the last online handling update all of my cars started understeering violently, after changing the nose height I managed to fix most of them but the feeling was still there.
I'm just updating GT5 now so I'm really hyped to see how it's changed
I'll edit this once I've played around a bit, as if anyone cares what I think ^_^
Edit: My cars are understeering less than before, the physics feel more like how offline felt which is a massively welcome change. Now to change all of my settings again T_T
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I remember that the 86/FR-S/BRZ would violently oversteer at the Foxhole whenever I would drive the Ring online. I can confirm that it has now been fixed!
The offline and online physics are much much closer now than ever before. Thank you for this surprise update PD
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Wow, nice surprise PD, now I can drive cars with comfort hard tires with less worry of easily losing grip This is perfect for 400pp races.
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Well, after all afternoon testing, I have some good news to report!
The online physics are most certainly different, but not actually too much worse, let me explain. There is slightly less oversteer, only a little, & there is slightly more understeer, again only a little. Practice mode now feels exactly the same as My Lounge/online Lobby.
Also, the offline physics feel slightly different too, but in reverse. There's slightly more oversteer, & slightly less understeer. What I think they've done is to meet offline & online physics in the middle, & I have to admit to my supprise that they both feel ok now. I can put in pretty much the exact same times in Practice Mode & Online that I could before the update in only Online mode. The back end tends to kick out in 2nd gear a little aswell with ABS on 1, it used to only do this with ABS 0.
I will miss the really oversteery online physics prior to 2.09, but it's not as much as a game killer as I was fearing.
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The weight transfer in my 86 with 0 ABS felt pretty spot on last night, but it was the only car I drove without ABS in that session so I can't say for sure.
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From what I've seen from racing today, the cars' main bodys seem to carry momentum MUCH more than before. If you go too fast into a corner (was experiencing this on Trial mountain at the end of the North West straight) the back will start to slide and swing out even without throttle. The weight transfer through even a minor 's' bend is noticeable a good distance after the corner and you have to be much more careful about mixing weight transfers, crests, dips and breaking zones. Do a few grip laps around Trial mountain and see what you think. I was experiencing strong effects in an Amuse S2000 with Sports Soft tyres.
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I raced online tonight for the first time since the update.
I liked it!
425pp, RS tires, SRF
I think the car felt more connected to the road, though some of the tracks seemed rougher.
A few of my friends were complaining that their cars were about to flip over. One of mine kept getting up on two wheels.
It was a fun night!
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So, as i see this, they dont have just changed the online to the offline physics, no, they completely changed both! I feel they changed the whole suspension thing, when you drive around the nürburgring with a car with a very hard setup you see the car heavily bouncing off the track because of the bumps. Looks definitly more realistic to me in replay mode!!
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the only difference i noticed is that the tyre walls seem to flex which i hadn't noticed before the update, and i think tank-slappers are more likely. But, i'm not sure.
As for VBR's post, i think part one of the video looks more true to life. the other videos, all the oversteer there is coming from fancy moves like flicks, handbrake and dumping the clutch.
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Just did a few nice races in the open lobby with complete strangers (yes people, that's possible) with a number of different cars in the 500/550PP range (Sports tyres) and I found the new physics to be an improvement so far but they're far less forgiving.
You really have to work for it again (using a DS3 by the way) and small mistakes have bigger consequences I found out.
Also went into another room with ABS disabled and whilst I normally can handle a lot of cars without ABS if I tinker with the brake balance, now I found it almost impossible with my DS3.
Just my first impressions so far.
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There is definitely way more emphasis on weight shifting. Try driving around an old, stock american car now, without aids...
Just a basic suspension upgrade makes a giant difference now, as it will reduce weight shift significantly.
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The car now feels more "real", which I know is completely subjective.
Then I grabbed a GT-R and ran the seasonal. I was surprised to find the car had less understeer than before the patch. The understeer of 4WD cars (in offline mode) has always seemed excessive to me. Feels more right now.
I rate this as the best patch as far as physics goes.
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