2.09 Tire/Suspension Model Changes

[NCRthree]

Looks like the new 2.09 is better both online and offline, that means PD is making changes in the right direction,



If something that was damn hard to control and now can be driven with fun, that is one hell of a great news. I have a tune for Yellowbird on 2.08 which makes it a bit easier to drive, I wonder how that tune will work on 2.09 ... by the way what grainy video you are referring to ?

It's the video of a RUF test driver. Just google Yellowbird Nurburgring-it's right there. No need to stick it in this thread. I just thought it was funny that the first 2 laps I did where I didn't wreck were exactly 8:20. Considering how inconsistent I drive there, that was odd. Then I watched the video again and that's about the RUF drivers time too. Weird coincidence! That time was very easy to beat though after some practice.

Another hard to drive car I compared. Lambo Murcie LP640 stock. 2.08 in a practice mode one make SH tires no aids, I could not keep the front end in line on the Nordschleife. It felt like the front tires were barely connected to the road. I could not drive it. AI left me behind after 3 turns-never finished a lap. I wondered if PD had improperly modeled it.

2.09 same exact race setup: big change- there was front end feedback and grip. No problem keeping up whatsoever. Gradual front grip loss. Now the car is a handful to drive like it should be which is great. Something must have changed offline too, no way my driving ability could have improved that much in 2 weeks.

 

[Deko Wolf-GTPT]

Would this have any dramatic effect in higher class cars? Say...the X1? Would it make the S.Vettel challenge easier to gold?

 

[MOTORTRENDmitch]

Mmm I'm sure I rolled my car online the other day.

I did it as well!!
Going down the hill at the end of the Nurburgring straight, caught the grass, went sideways, and caught grip on pavement whilst still going sideways, rolled twice!

 

[PAPPACLART]

A very interesting read. Just a shame that I can't try out myself being far away from my PS3. It is good that PD are still working on tweaking the physics, I guess GT5 is one big BETA, and what is learned will translate to GT6.

 

[diegorborges]

I did it as well!!
Going down the hill at the end of the Nurburgring straight, caught the grass, went sideways, and caught grip on pavement whilst still going sideways, rolled twice!

This happened using what kind of tires? Slicks?

Sounds like an interesting accident.

 

[Outeke]

I guess GT5 is one big BETA, and what is learned will translate to GT6.

That we thought about GT2, GT3, GT4 and GT5 as well

 

[skazz]

I'm really loving the changes. Finally you can lock up one or both front tyres, modulate the pedal a faction, regain grip and actually still make it round the corner! No more "ice mode" or that bizarre feeling of being penalised for grip loss for a few seconds of unrealistic sliding before the tyres start to grip again.

The most fun change of all is the wheel going properly light when you lock you the fronts, and what you feel when you release the brake a little and grip returns. Try taking a corner normally then slamming the brake: the front wheels lose traction, the steering becomes light, the car plows forwards in the direction of momentum. But then release the brake, feel the car instantly react, grip returns, wheel weight returns, the car starts turning once more.

This update brings GT5's physics model up much much closer to the good PC sims. A total breath of new life for me. ABS off, brake balance at 5:2 on most sports and supercars, now I can finally get some benefit out of my Fanatec Clubsport pedals within GT5

 

[Lock2Lock]

I'm really loving the changes. Finally you can lock up one or both front tyres, modulate the pedal a faction, regain grip and actually still make it round the corner! No more "ice mode" or that bizarre feeling of being penalised for grip loss for a few seconds of unrealistic sliding before the tyres start to grip again.

The most fun change of all is the wheel going properly light when you lock you the fronts, and what you feel when you release the brake a little and grip returns. Try taking a corner normally then slamming the brake: the front wheels lose traction, the steering becomes light, the car plows forwards in the direction of momentum. But then release the brake, feel the car instantly react, grip returns, wheel weight returns, the car starts turning once more.

This update brings GT5's physics model up much much closer to the good PC sims. A total breath of new life for me. ABS off, brake balance at 5:2 on most sports and supercars, now I can finally get some benefit out of my Fanatec Clubsport pedals within GT5

Try a bone stock Enzo with...
Sports hards in the front
Sports medium in the rear
No abs
Brake balance
2-3 in the front
0-1 in the rear

Try it on top gear and let me know what you think

 

[PAPPACLART]

And GT6 will be a BETA for version 7 lol God help us haha

 

[skazz]

Try a bone stock Enzo with...
Sports hards in the front
Sports medium in the rear
No abs
Brake balance
2-3 in the front
0-1 in the rear

Try it on top gear and let me know what you think

To be honest that combo felt a bit artificial. The better rear tyres gave the Enzo a bizarre kind of understeer. I enjoyed it far more with sports hard tyres front and back, since the car had better balance (although it was definitely slower and had more oversteer tendencies).

Brake balance of 5:2 was also preferable to your suggested 3:1: I like full useable braking force on a road car with road tyres to be around 65-70% of pedal travel, that's what my Clubsport ABS effect is set to, and with the current physics a front brake balance of 5 gives me that, whereas with front brake balance of 3 you need to mash the pedal to the floor to get the car stopped... That removes any ability to nuance the pedal and brake as close ad possible to the threshold of traction.

 

[another_jakhole]

And GT6 will be a BETA for version 7 lol God help us haha

When it stops being true, PD will have stopped making GT.



BUMP

Try a bone stock Enzo with...
Sports hards in the front
Sports medium in the rear
No abs
Brake balance
2-3 in the front
0-1 in the rear

Try it on top gear and let me know what you think

To be honest that combo felt a bit artificial. The better rear tyres gave the Enzo a bizarre kind of understeer. I enjoyed it far more with sports hard tyres front and back, since the car had better balance (although it was definitely slower and had more oversteer tendencies).

Brake balance of 5:2 was also preferable to your suggested 3:1: I like full useable braking force on a road car with road tyres to be around 65-70% of pedal travel, that's what my Clubsport ABS effect is set to, and with the current physics a front brake balance of 5 gives me that, whereas with front brake balance of 3 you need to mash the pedal to the floor to get the car stopped... That removes any ability to nuance the pedal and brake as close ad possible to the threshold of traction.

 

[Lock2Lock]

To be honest that combo felt a bit artificial. The better rear tyres gave the Enzo a bizarre kind of understeer. I enjoyed it far more with sports hard tyres front and back, since the car had better balance (although it was definitely slower and had more oversteer tendencies).

Brake balance of 5:2 was also preferable to your suggested 3:1: I like full useable braking force on a road car with road tyres to be around 65-70% of pedal travel, that's what my Clubsport ABS effect is set to, and with the current physics a front brake balance of 5 gives me that, whereas with front brake balance of 3 you need to mash the pedal to the floor to get the car stopped... That removes any ability to nuance the pedal and brake as close ad possible to the threshold of traction.

Hummmm maybe because of the offline physics. I haven't tested it since before update

 

[skazz]

Hummmm maybe because of the offline physics. I haven't tested it since before update

The update finally allows you to lock up a tyre here and there without dramatic consequences, so having a higher brake balance setting is no longer as scary as it was before the update. The whole "penalize you with no grip for a couple of seconds after overloading the tyres" effect from before really is gone now - grip returns just as soon as you would expect it to.

 

[diegorborges]

The update finally allows you to lock up a tyre here and there without dramatic consequences, so having a higher brake balance setting is no longer as scary as it was before the update. The whole "penalize you with no grip for a couple of seconds after overloading the tyres" effect from before really is gone now - grip returns just as soon as you would expect it to.

I'm still getting the hang of braking balance on 2.09... in the beginning I used high brake balance values (I'm an ABS=1 player, only using ABS=0 on old cars) then at some point, too high values didn't worked well anymore, then now you can really feel the difference in a well made brake setup.

And driving with ABS=0 feels a lot smoother and gradual!

 

[amar212]

Try a bone stock Enzo with...
Sports hards in the front
Sports medium in the rear
No abs
Brake balance
2-3 in the front
0-1 in the rear

Try it on top gear and let me know what you think

I raise you with :

Bone stock Enzo
Comfort Soft on both front-rear
no assists
no ABS
6-1 brake balance

Enjoy.

The greatest achievement of this update is the possibility to drive all cars on Comfort compound. And also I do not understand the logic behind having different compounds on axles? Especially having stronger compound on torque-axle. It is like having TCS to 1.

 

[Lock2Lock]

I raise you with :

Bone stock Enzo
Comfort Soft on both front-rear
no assists
no ABS
6-1 brake balance

Enjoy.

The greatest achievement of this update is the possibility to drive all cars on Comfort compound. And also I do not understand the logic behind having different compounds on axles? Especially having stronger compound on torque-axle. It is like having TCS to 1.

Like i said that was before this update. It felt the best like that before.

The reason to have different tires on front and rear (which is only on a select few) is because the tire model was the closest to that. I forget the size of the Enzo's tires. Many people that were helping me with the testing told me that was the closest. The point on the Enzo to do it is to establish the grip level on it because of its narrow tires in the front and huge wide tires in the rear (which does have logic behind it). BUT IT WAS BEFORE LAST UPDATE.

I also was doing this to match the videos and looks of the car in their fastest times. The Enzo was at top gear. Reason the brake balance was set like that because in the video the stig locked up a tire one at a time. It happened a few times. But the way it was set was the closest to real life look. Reason i say look none of us have driven one. Trust me i had studied that video.

I'll probably have to redo my whole note book of this testing which I had about 15 cars left. Oh well i guess

 

[RedBaron]

I really love 2.09 physics changes even with DS3. Few things that I know from my real driving are now in the game.

- Progressivity
- More alive suspension able to work with track surface
- More delicate work with gas and brake pedal

Now it's possible to steer the back of the RWD cars without losing traction by sensitive work with gas pedal the same way as I do with my real and understeering BMW 330d in curves. Everything seems to be less "ON-OFF wooden style" and more controllable without any touch of arcadiness. Track surface is more pronounced while driving and even in replays I can suddenly see the suspension to do its work.

I am looking forward to spend next weekend in our weekend house with G25 wheel, GT5, few friends and new physics.

 

[Lock2Lock]

I really love 2.09 physics changes even with DS3. Few things that I know from my real driving are now in the game.

- Progressivity
- More alive suspension able to work with track surface
- More delicate work with gas and brake pedal

Now it's possible to steer the back of the RWD cars without losing traction by sensitive work with gas pedal the same way as I do with my real and understeering BMW 330d in curves. Everything seems to be less "ON-OFF wooden style" and more controllable without any touch of arcadiness. Track surface is more pronounced while driving and even in replays I can suddenly see the suspension to do its work.

I am looking forward to spend next weekend in our weekend house with G25 wheel, GT5, few friends and new physics.

I am a wheel user but a friend of mine was telling me how much better the ds3 feels. I was really amazed too

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Yeah, try the Camaro SS with CM tires at daytona road, exiting the tight corners at low speed, modulate the throttle and a bit of steering, the rear will slide progressively and controllable with the throttle play, a big change to previous version.

 

[diegorborges]

I am a wheel user but a friend of mine was telling me how much better the ds3 feels. I was really amazed too

DS3 player here too, still amazed after all those days.

 

[Lock2Lock]

DS3 player here too, still amazed after all those days.

The wheel is mind blowing now too

 

[NSX FTW]

2.09 update 🤬 my NSX-R. It now has so much grip that it will rollover is tight corners.

 

[RedBaron]

2.09 update 🤬 my NSX-R. It now has so much grip that it will rollover is tight corners.

Then downgrade your tyres to one of the comfort type.

 

[fifomaniak]

Physics may be the same online and offline now, but there is still something wrong with rollover. I took a VW Samba Transporter to TGTT, equipped it with RS tires and tried to roll it. Car tilts a lot, maybe sometimes over 45*, but then it stops and I'm back on 4 wheels instead of being on side. I keep turning, so centrifugal force should easily flip it, but magic force brings me back to 4 wheels. It feels weird

 

[Lock2Lock]

Physics may be the same online and offline now, but there is still something wrong with rollover. I took a VW Samba Transporter to TGTT, equipped it with RS tires and tried to roll it. Car tilts a lot, maybe sometimes over 45*, but then it stops and I'm back on 4 wheels instead of being on side. I keep turning, so centrifugal force should easily flip it, but magic force brings me back to 4 wheels. It feels weird

Fully mod your VW BUS and put this setup on it (my Endo aka stoppie tune)

Put Skid Recovery Force On (reason just like wheelies you have to have it on).
Go to a flat track.
Put ABS on 1
brake balance on
10 in the front
0 in the rear

Hit about 85 MPH then slam on the brakes which will end up like my profile picture

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

^ You got the BB reversed By the way I posted on the turbo lag fun about the correct definition of turbo lag and turbo boost threshold.

 

[Lock2Lock]

^ You got the BB reversed By the way I posted on the turbo lag fun about the correct definition of turbo lag and turbo boost threshold.

Thanks for noticing that...

So basically what I am stating is the boost threshold not lag? So ready to rip my hair out (though I just got a hair cut hahaha) about that. I have a feeling I am not wording something right on that thread.

 

[fifomaniak]

Thanks, but I don't want to do a stoppie. I want to roll this car over, and clearly some magic force is stopping me from doing that.

 

[Lock2Lock]

Thanks, but I don't want to do a stoppie. I want to roll this car over, and clearly some magic force is stopping me from doing that.

Go offline. Online you can't.

As long if you apply what i posted above it will do a front flip

 

[fifomaniak]

Go offline. Online you can't.

As long if you apply what i posted above it will do a front flip

Problem is I can't do it offline. Try it for yourself, and you'll see. Rollover physics are still weird.