2005 Le Mans entry list.

[wee_man]

Well entry submissions have already been made to the ACO now for the 2005 race. They now have to plough through the 78 entries made this year, that's one up on last year. They've already 15 etry's based on pre set conditions, and these are the ones they've announced so far.

ENTRANTS NAT. CAT. CARS SELECTED BY
PROTOTYPE "LM" P1
CHAMPION RACING USA LMP1 - LMP 900 AUDI ALMS

PROTOTYPE "LM" P2
COURAGE COMPETITION FRA LMP2 COURAGE LMES
INTERSPORT RACING USA LMP2 LOLA AER ALMS
INTERSPORT RACING USA LMP2 COURAGE JUDD "24 Heures du Mans"
MIRACLE MOTORSPORTS USA LMP2 COURAGE ALMS
PIERRE BRUNEAU FRA LMP2 PILBEAM LMES
RACHEL WELTER FRA LMP2 WR "24 Heures du Mans"

GRAND TOURISME ("LM" GT1)
ACEMCO MOTORSPORTS USA LM GT1 SALEEN S7R ALMS
BMS SCUDERIA ITALIA ITA LM GT1 FERRARI 550 MARANELLO FIA
CORVETTE RACING USA LM GT1 CORVETTE C6 R "24 Heures du Mans"
CORVETTE RACING USA LM GT1 CORVETTE C6 R Petit Le Mans
LARBRE COMPETITION FRA LM GT1 FERRARI 550 MARANELLO LMES

GRAND TOURISME ("LM" GT2)
WHITE LIGHTNING RACING USA LM GT2 PORSCHE 911 GT3 RS "24 Heures du Mans"
FLYING LIZARD MOTORSPORTS USA LM GT2 PORSCHE 911 GT3 RS ALMS
SEBAH AUTOMOTIVE LTD GBR LM GT2 PORSCHE 911 GT3 RS LMES

intersting there's so many LMP 2's already allowed to enter, yet on one pre selected LMP1. I'm glad to see there's a Saleen in there with the Vette's and Ferrari this year, though from what I've heard they're only allowing 7 GT1's in this year, and they've already allowed 5 in. They say they're hoping to get the Aston Martin's in, and I'm presuming they'd want to race a two car team . Personally I find the GT1 class the best class, as I think it has the greatest diversity. I mean look at the potential GT1 entries, You could have Aston DB9R's, Vette C6R's, Saleen S7's, Ferrari 550's and 575GT's, Maserati's, Lambo and I dunno if the Listers and Vipers are still legal, along with the Zonda as well. The ACO have potential for bringing back GT racing like it was in the 90's with this class, alll they need is more encouragement for it. I don't care too much for the open top LMP's as they look all the same to me, especially if Audi run away with it again. GT2 also just bores me with 99% of the field being 911's, with the odd Ferrari, and TVR and Morgan poncing around in the background. Again if they were to expand that class and encourage more entries from other manufacturer's that would be a great class.
I've always seen Le Mans as kind of the World Cup of motorsport. There tends to be a team from each country, so a nation can get stuck behind it. For example in the late 80's when you had Jaguar flying the flag for britain, against, Prosche and Mercedes for germany, and Toyota, Mazda and Nissan for Japan, Pergeout for France etc etc. But now...it doesn't seem that special anymore, or is it just me?

Anyway my rant over, bring on Le Mans!

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Sucks to see that the R8 isn't being ran anymore. But I got told they are working on a faster car. But i don't think that would be needed.

 

[wee_man]

Privateers are still using the R8, or did you mean it sucks to see that the manufactured backed R8's aren't in any more?
The Champion Audi which has been automatically selected is in. I dunno, kinda glad to see Audi not run away with it anymore, even though they are the class act of the field, and still as you said don't really need a new car.
Although if Zytek can get their act together and make their car reliable, some of the races I saw this year of the ELMS and ALMS, they were giving the audi's a run for their money. Be it the most noticable was Silverstone where the Zyteks had the pace by miles over the Audi's but not teh reliability or luck .
Most of the manufacturers seem to be concentrating on GT1 now which I'm personally glad to see. Also if you think about it, now that Audi own's Lamborghini, and be it there isn't an official Lamborghini GT squad the cars are manufacturers backed and so Audi will be putting some funding and effort into that for the time being.

 

[kensei]

Question for you Lemans and sportscar fans. Why would a team build a LMP1 car open (audi R8) vs. closed seater (Bentley)? Is there an advantage of one over the other? I would think a closed car like the Bentley would have an areo and stiffness advantage...

 

[The359]

intersting there's so many LMP 2's already allowed to enter, yet on one pre selected LMP1. I'm glad to see there's a Saleen in there with the Vette's and Ferrari this year, though from what I've heard they're only allowing 7 GT1's in this year, and they've already allowed 5 in. They say they're hoping to get the Aston Martin's in, and I'm presuming they'd want to race a two car team . Personally I find the GT1 class the best class, as I think it has the greatest diversity. I mean look at the potential GT1 entries, You could have Aston DB9R's, Vette C6R's, Saleen S7's, Ferrari 550's and 575GT's, Maserati's, Lambo and I dunno if the Listers and Vipers are still legal, along with the Zonda as well. The ACO have potential for bringing back GT racing like it was in the 90's with this class, alll they need is more encouragement for it. I don't care too much for the open top LMP's as they look all the same to me, especially if Audi run away with it again. GT2 also just bores me with 99% of the field being 911's, with the odd Ferrari, and TVR and Morgan poncing around in the background. Again if they were to expand that class and encourage more entries from other manufacturer's that would be a great class.
I've always seen Le Mans as kind of the World Cup of motorsport. There tends to be a team from each country, so a nation can get stuck behind it. For example in the late 80's when you had Jaguar flying the flag for britain, against, Prosche and Mercedes for germany, and Toyota, Mazda and Nissan for Japan, Pergeout for France etc etc. But now...it doesn't seem that special anymore, or is it just me?

Anyway my rant over, bring on Le Mans!

There is a lack of LMP1s because the teams that gained the automatic entries (Audi Sport UK Team Veloqx, Audi Sport Japan Team Goh) have dropped out of the sport, so they can't pick up the automatic entries. The ACO doesn't merely go down the line to whoever can pickit up next. Champion gained theirs by winning the Petit LeMans. Champion will also likely gain a 2nd entry, and Audi Sport France Team Oreca will likely run 2 as well.

There is no limit on how many GT1s will be entered. We're likely to see some Ferraris and Saleens added as well as possibly a customer Corvette C5-R.

GT1s wont get back to the days of the old GT1 class in the 90s because they were too extreme, they were too easily bending the rules, and the prototypes are meant to be the top class. There's nothing stopping teams from making closed cockpit prototypes, but they obviously don't think they're necessary.

Be aware that whoever wins each specific class at Sebring in March will gain automatic entry to LeMans.

 

[cardude2004]

When is the race?

 

[The359]

June 18th and 19th

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Hmmm, 8 days after my birthday.

 

[GilesGuthrie]

Question for you Lemans and sportscar fans. Why would a team build a LMP1 car open (audi R8) vs. closed seater (Bentley)? Is there an advantage of one over the other? I would think a closed car like the Bentley would have an areo and stiffness advantage...

There is a rules difference between the two types. Off the top of my head, the open cars have larger tyres and larger brakes, but less power. I think that there's a fuel tank size implication too, but I'm not sure, and I don't have time to look.

 

[kensei]

There is a rules difference between the two types. Off the top of my head, the open cars have larger tyres and larger brakes, but less power. I think that there's a fuel tank size implication too, but I'm not sure, and I don't have time to look.

So it's a trade off over longer tire life and fuel stints over power and raw speed why a team would choose open or closed seater?

 

[GT Freak!]

I am not to keen on the LMP classes however they are amazing acheivments. Why open vs closed LMP cars? Well the closed cars get very, very hot, and when it rains, water seaps in and life can be uncomfortable in your 3 odd hour stints. Which means the open class is favourable. However, when things hairy and verticle and cars stop crashing and flying (think 1999 le man with the clr) the closed cars have obvious safety advantages.

The GT1 class is my favourite and from waht i have read it looks like it going to be a great feild. Recently it was a case of Vettes VS 575 and Vettes ending up with a 1,2 victory. However with the introduction of the ever improving Saleen S7 and one of the greatest looking GT cars every the DBR9 i hope they will mix it up a bit.

Will Motors TV and/or Eurosport have coverage of the Le Man 24hour? This is UK TV!

 

[Layla's Keeper]

I'll hope the Dyson Lola-Judd's get an invite, as those cars were the only LMP's taking the fight to Champion Audi last year in ALMS.

And I do mean only. Last year's entire LMP1 field in ALMS was one Champion Audi and two Dyson Lola-Judds. The Audi was guaranteed the victory if the Lolas weren't driven on qualifying laps each and every lap. And the Lolas needed the Audi to have problems to get any sort of comfortable lead. Usually, though, the Dyson cars broke.

Still, they're the Lola chassis that was formerly the MG EX257 so they get my favor. Catch the Octagon Spirit!

 

[The359]

I'll hope the Dyson Lola-Judd's get an invite, as those cars were the only LMP's taking the fight to Champion Audi last year in ALMS.

And I do mean only. Last year's entire LMP1 field in ALMS was one Champion Audi and two Dyson Lola-Judds. The Audi was guaranteed the victory if the Lolas weren't driven on qualifying laps each and every lap. And the Lolas needed the Audi to have problems to get any sort of comfortable lead. Usually, though, the Dyson cars broke.

Still, they're the Lola chassis that was formerly the MG EX257 so they get my favor. Catch the Octagon Spirit!

You're forgetting Intersport's Lola B160-Judd as well as the 2nd Champion Audi. Also the AutoCon Rikey & Scott MkIIIC that ran Petit LeMans.

 

[Layla's Keeper]

Yeah, I did forget those. Can you blame me? I mean, no matter how much Atherton kool-aid you drink the ALMS was damned dull this year. I don't like the Audi R8. Hell, at least the Porsche 917 had Ferrari 512's and Lola T-70's to contend with.

I have no respect for what Audi has done. The only truly competitive car they ever raced against was the BMW V12LMR. In the years the ALMS has existed, the Audi R8 has been in competition every year except 1999. That's 1 year without Audi.

Here's the total list of races not won by an Audi R8 (skipping 1999)

Charlotte 2000 - BMW V12LMR
(out of 6 events)
Mid-Ohio 2001 - Panoz LMP1
(out of 5 events)
Washington 2002 - Panoz LMP2
(out of 8 events)
(undefeated in 5 events in 2003)
Mosport 2004 - Dyson MG EX257
(out of 7 events)

So in 31 races in the history of the ALMS the Audi R8 has lost a grand total of 4 times. And people wonder why folks say there's no racing in the ALMS.

You know what I say? Screw the ACO (albatross around the neck of American road racing, as always) and let's relive the GTP days with IMSA giving prototypes their own rules. OUR own rules. Look at some of the cars that have been shelved because of the Audi juggernaught.

Lola B2K/10

Panoz LMP07

Riley & Scott MkIII

Ascari KZ1

Reynard 2KQ

Ferrari 333SP (alternatively powered by Judd V10's or the Ferrari V12)

Crawford SSC

Kudzu DLY

Norma M2000

Dallara LMP #DO-001

Now, think about this. That's 10 cars and all of those cars were in competition in 2002 in the Grand Am SRP class (save the Panoz LMP07). Each of those ten cars had a teammate. Some had tons of chassismates too (particularly the Ferraris and the R&S's). So figure there's at least 20-25 competition quality LMP chassis out there THAT ARE NOT RACING. And why? Because Atherton and the ALMS would rather kiss the ACO's ass than come up with a rulebook that keeps these cars racing.

There is no good damn reason why we couldn't have slapped inlet restrictors on the Audis two years ago. There's no good damn reason why ex-WSC chassis like the 333SP and Riley & Scott MkIII can't get weight breaks. There's no good damn reason why the Judd V10 - the privateer's engine of choice - has to run with air inlet restrictions (ask Doran Lista about that) and the list of idiocy goes on and on.

**** the ACO and their Euro-centric rulebook. IMSA should be for IMSA, and we can't afford to lose our prototype racing series because IMSA wants to be for the ACO.

 

[The359]

...All those cars were horribly uncompetitive or are ungodly outdated. The only exceptions are the Dallara LMP01, and all of those are owned by British teams (1 of which IS running Sebring with 2 Dallaras) and the Riley & Scott MkIIIC, which AutoCon Racing will use at Sebring and other races.

The LMP07 was crap from the start, the B2K/10 is uneeded with totady's B160s and upcoming B05/40s, the Ascari LMP simply because Ascari dropped out, the Reynard 2KQ isn't even in the class anymore, the Ferrari 333SP is nearly a decade old, the Crawford was never competitive, Kudzu I believe folded (and Mazda is working on their own effort), the Norma is relegated to the back of the pack in LMP2s.

Also, the Doran Lista Dallara LMP was running under Grand Am rules, the Audi R8 does not run in Grand Am and thus you're comparing apples to oranges.

The entire POINT of the ALMS is to allow ACO LeMans cars to have their own truely competitive series outside of FIA Sportscar (now defunct) and FIA GT. IMSA wasn't even with the ALMS at the beginning, IMSA jumped in to help the ALMS because they knew it was a good thing.

I should also point out that the ALMS is NOT following ACO rules, and in fact is doing quite well as pissing the ACO off. ALMS is allowed to run older LMP900/LMP675 cars for one more year while LeMans and LMES are required to have full LMP1/LMP2/Hybrids.

Also the ALMS is allowing the Maserati MC12 to run at Sebring, which could have dire consequences on the outcome of automatic entries in GT1 class for LeMans.

 

[Layla's Keeper]

Yes, the Rollcentre Dallara. I'm aware of the car. However, you're obviously not aware of the fact that Lista Doran competed with their Dallara/Judd in several ALMS events.

Lista/Doran results

- 2002 Sebring 12 hours - 10th on the grid, finished 54th when involved in a multi-car accident
- 2003 Sebring 12 hours - 8th on the grid, finished 7th
- 2003 Road Atlanta - 4th on the grid, finished 5th

The reason they pulled out was because they couldn't get a Le Mans invite, which was the only way they could keep the team financially viable. On top of that, the Judd engine was saddled with heavy intake restrictions in the ALMS that compromised the straightline speed of the car.

Interestingly enough, in 2002 (the same year that Lista Doran dominated Daytona with their Dallara/Judd) Oreca converted their remaining Dallaras (as Lista/Doran only bought one from the team, and they had three cars) from Chrysler to Judd power and moved up considerably in the Le Mans standings as a team with the team cars finishing 5th and 6th after starting 7th and 4th respectively.

The whole reason that the ALMS is allowing the LMP900/LMP675 cars to continue this year is because not ONE American team has the sponsor capital or team resources to update their car or purchase an all new LMP1 chassis. Champion Porsche/Audi is a large Porsche/Audi dealership that gets favorable prices and treatment from Porsche and Audi. Dyson is a privateer struggling to keep his now 4 year old MG fours to hold together for 3 hours, let alone 12 or 24.

The newest ALMS chassis on the grid for Sebring this year will be the Miracle Courage C65. The Zyteks won't be running the full ALMS season, nor the Rollcentre Dallaras.

The ALMS needs the old chassis to be dusted off so that our LMP grids are something more than a handful of cars. Grand Am can pull in sponsors and teams enough for 30 Daytona Prototypes, and most of them from outside of endurance racing. But the reason they can do that is because if the rules favor one car too much in Grand Am, they'll balance things out by allowing an engine to make more power or adding ballast to a chassis.

Ballast the Audis. Slap boost restrictions on them. Whittle them down until they need a helping hand. Sponsor dollars go to the teams that get the most exposure, and it's hard to entice sponsors if all anyone ever sees is your car getting lapped by the Audi one more time.

And, for the record, the Crawford SSC was the first chassis Crawford had ever built for themselves (before that, their greatest accomplishment was constructing the GTP chassis Mazda used). It had "Allard J2X syndrome". It produced tons and tons of downforce, but had a low top end. In Grand Am SRP competition, it was the only car in striking distance of the Dallara-Judd thanks to continued development. When SRP was dissolved, the car was simply shelved because Crawford was a Daytona Prototype constructor and had little interest in fighting the uphill battle in ALMS against Audi-favoring rules.

You might also be interested to know that Dyson owns a Crawford SSC and his team scored a win in Grand Am SRP competition over the Dallara/Judd by 25seconds at the 2002 Virginia 500.

 

[The359]

The ACO has added more cars to the list. The following 34 cars will be allowed to test in June:

LMP1:
Team Nasamax - Nasamax DM139-Judd
Courage Competition - Courage C60H-Judd
Pescarolo Sport - Pescarolo C60-Judd
Champion Racing - Audi R8
Rollcentre Racing - Dallara LMP01-Judd
Racing For Holland - Dome S101-Judd
Creation Autosportif - Zytek DBA4-03S-Judd
Team Jota-Zytek - Zytek DBA4-03S-Judd

LMP2:
Miracle Motorsports - Courage C65-AER
Intersport Racing - Lola B160(?)-Judd
Intersport Racing - Courage C65-Judd (?)
Pierre Bruneau - Pilbeam MP93-JPX
Courage Competition - Courage C65-CG
G-Force Racing - Courage C65-Judd
Lucchini Engineering - Lucchini-Judd
Paul Belmondo Racing - Courage C65-Ford
Rachel Welter - WR04-Peugeot

GT1:
BMS Scuderia Italia - Ferrari 550-GTS Maranello
ACEMCO Motorsports - Saleen S7R
Larbre Competition - Ferrari 550-GTS Maranello
Corvette Racing - Chevrolet Corvette C6-R
Corvette Racing - Chevrolet Corvette C6-R
JMB Racing - Ferrari 575GTC
Cirtek Racing - Ferrari 550-GTS Maranello

GT2:
Flying Lizard Motorsports - Porsche 911 GT3-RSR
White Lightning/Peterson Motorsports - Porsche 911 GT3-RSR
Sebah Automotive - Porsche 911 GT3-RSR
Scuderia Ecosse - Ferrari 360 Modena
Seikel Motorsports - Porsche 911 GT3-RSR
Cirtek Motorsports - Ferrari 360GTC Modena
Racesport Peninsula - TVR Tuscan T400R
Panoz Motorsport - Panoz Esperante GT-LM
Luc Alphand Aventures - Porsche 911 GT3-RSR
Alex Job Racing - Porsche 911 GT3-RSR

 

[jenson09]

Isnt Aston Martin meantto be running a DBR9 this year? or is that not confirmed yet? Its good to see Saleen in the GT1 catagory. I think the GT sections could do with some more competition. I know TVR, Morgan etc take part but their not great are they?!?

 

[JAGUAR]

The GT1 class is pretty much at its peak at the moment. Pretty much all of the expected contenters will be hitting the track in 2005.

The real growth area is now in LMP1 and LMP2.

The new prototype regs came out in 2004 and after a slow start LMP2 is booming in the LMES in Europe, while LMP1 is just starting to get a head of steam, with new cars from Audi, Porsche, Peugeot, Lola, Courage, Lister, NASAMAX and some other unknown major manufactuers expected in the next 12 months.

These new cars are starting to appear in the LMES, and will appear in the ALMS from 2006 onwards, due to that series running to the old prototype regs for a couple of years longer than the LMES.

 

[JAGUAR]

Regarding closed LMP1 cars, the new 2004 regs mean that open and closed LMP1s will have exactly the same engine, tire, weight, cockpit size etc. regs and so their is no performance reason why a manufactuer should choose one over the other.

The old LMGTP closed cars, such as the Bentley EXP Speed 8 and Mercedes CLR had slightly different regs to the open LMP900s, like the Audi R8 and BMW V12 LMR, because in 1999 GT1 was renamed LMPGTP and the production car requirment of GT1 dropped completly.

 

[jenson09]

The new prototype regs came out in 2004 and after a slow start LMP2 is booming in the LMES in Europe, while LMP1 is just starting to get a head of steam, with new cars from Audi, Porsche, Peugeot, Lola, Courage, Lister, NASAMAX and some other unknown major manufactuers expected in the next 12 months.

QUOTE]

Wow didnt know porche was entering. Is it their own car or are they just supplying engines? Oh and whens the new Audi meant to start being used? Im guessing its not this year

 

[JAGUAR]

The new prototype regs came out in 2004 and after a slow start LMP2 is booming in the LMES in Europe, while LMP1 is just starting to get a head of steam, with new cars from Audi, Porsche, Peugeot, Lola, Courage, Lister, NASAMAX and some other unknown major manufactuers expected in the next 12 months.

QUOTE]

Wow didnt know porche was entering. Is it their own car or are they just supplying engines? Oh and whens the new Audi meant to start being used? Im guessing its not this year

Porsche will apparently enter a six cylinder LMP2 car at the end of 2005, which will become a customer car, before a new LMP1 arrives in 2006.

Audi R9/10 will debut in 2006.

 

[The359]

Peugeot isn't entering LMPs...

 

[jenson09]

Has Audi had to mod the R8 in order to meet the new regs? Ie the new cockit shape, rear wings etc?

 

[JAGUAR]

Peugeot isn't entering LMPs...

They are evaluating an LMP1 design at this time.

 

[JAGUAR]

Has Audi had to mod the R8 in order to meet the new regs? Ie the new cockit shape, rear wings etc?

In the LMES and at Le Mans the R8s have minor mods in order to continue racing until the end of 2006.

The new Audi will be an all new design.

 

[The359]

They are evaluating an LMP1 design at this time.

That's a big no. The whole reason Pescarolo had to switch to Judd engines was because Peugeot pulled their backing of the project. They aren't likely to jump right back in, with even more money, 2 years later.

They're also dropping out of WRC to concentrate on selling road cars, so they aren't likely to suddenly jump into LeMans either.

 

[dbartucci]

Official List is out now.



http://www.lemans.org/univers_sport/24hauto/live/pages/liste_jtest_gb.html

 

[Pink_the_Floyd]

Question for you Lemans and sportscar fans. Why would a team build a LMP1 car open (audi R8) vs. closed seater (Bentley)? Is there an advantage of one over the other? I would think a closed car like the Bentley would have an areo and stiffness advantage...

Click this link for more information:

Mulsannecorner


It's about the flip that the Merc. CLR made in 1999 and the aerodynamics produced by a closed or LMP car.

 

[Blake]

Interesting read, simple principles but I never really thought of the lift generated by the "top edge" of those cars.

Blake