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By your logic, the GT-R is indeed a supercar. The GT-R is faster than both the Vette and the NSX. Ignorance and false logic ftl.
2009 Nissan GT-R - Zero tolerance for asshattery
- Thread starter emad
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By your logic, the GT-R is indeed a supercar. The GT-R is faster than both the Vette and the NSX. Ignorance and false logic ftl.
Leonidae
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that speed can be safely achieved under track conditions only or on german autobahn, and even then it's risky. and give me a link to a place that says that supercars MUST do 200mph. 20 years ago, 300bhp and 150mph was supercar territory. and now, I'd say that Bugatti Veyron, Koenigsegg CCR etc are supercars, thus, all these precious Ferraris and McLarens fall short of 240mph and thus, they aren't supercars by your ratings..
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Leonidae
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McLaren F1 is practical supercar that had room for 3 people and some luggage. Ferrari 575 was a supercar with 4 seats, Lamborghini Espada had 4 seats etc.. heck, even Porche has 2+2, 200mph capable model.
GT-R also fills most of the criteria needed, the top speed is the only thing that is missing.
GT-R also fills most of the criteria needed, the top speed is the only thing that is missing.
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- MP-Omnis
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Not exactly. The GT-R's capabilities is what makes people mistake it for a supercar. I'm talking about the large capacity engines, very high horsepower numbers, the low, wide sleek look.
The GT-R had 2.6 liters, 300hp, and a more or less "normal" body style.
The newer NSX is faster around a track than the gt-r.
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I want to say that I posted about it a while ago, but I seem to recall the EVO model being "Japan-only" and the V-Spec will be available nearly everywhere. It has been my estimate for some time that the 'Ring times we keep hearing about were in fact done by an EVO, not the standard GT-R. With that version of the GT-R, I personally find 7:38 more believable...
===
Re: GT-R = Supercar?
No, no and no. First of all, consider this: The boys at Nissan have been calling the GT-R a "muscle car" as well, so first and foremost they need to decide what the hell it is before saying both. They are drastically different ends of the performance spectrum, and IMO, the GT-R fits neither mold.
The GT-R is what it is, a luxury sports car. Sure, it wears a Nissan badge, but that has no effect on my personal stance. Quite simply, the speed, the looks, and the price keep it out of the supercar club in much the same way that the Corvette and Viper have both been shut-out. Sure, there is a level of badge-snobbery required when deciding that one car is a supercar and that one is not, but simply put, the GT-R is in a completely different class by comparison to say a Lamborghini LP640 or a Maserati MC12.
Its a fast car, its a nice car, but its not a supercar. Never has been, never will be. So, for now, it gets to pick on the big kids just like the Corvette, it just won't receive the same respect. Unfortunate, yes, but I've had to deal with it for decades...
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oh really..? this is from 911 '05:
On the other hand, GT-R will probably have stripped out, bare bones trackday version on the way as well, so just wait and the 2-seater-requirement will be filled.
a basic level 911 isnt a 200mph 911,the gt2 is porsche 200mph 911 and that doesnt have rear seats.
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Leonidae
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amount of the cylinders is irrelevant. it's the performance that counts, and GT-R fills the requirements of acceleration, latelar G's, braking, aerodynamics. and 480bhp is at the net power at wheels. power at the crank, without any accessories is well above 500. and jaguar XJ220 has SMALLER V6 twinturbo than GT-R has, and it's a supercar. Noble's have twinturbo V6s as well, and they're classed as supercars.
Joey D
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What an arrogant post 👎.
How can my OPINION be wrong? I don't classify the current Z06 as a super car, I did at one time but upon closer examination it is not. I do love the Z06 but even I know it's no supercar. Put it up against a real supercar like an Enzo and it doesn't stand a snow balls chance in hell of beating it.
You can think the Corvette is a supercar, you are entitled to your opinions and you aren't wrong for them. Just because I don't classify something as a supercar doesn't make it not one and just because you do classify it as one does not make it true either.
And I don't care for the Nissan brand, I find them generic. I didn't say they were a pile of crap, I said they were like Chevy's (a brand I do like). They have their fast sports car, the GT-R compared to the Z06, the mid-range sports car, 350Z compared to the upcoming Camaro, etc. you get the point. I love how you just assumed what I meant with out even asking.
I personally would not waste my money on a Nissan when I could get a BMW, Porsche, or any number of other cars that I like more.
And if you must resort to calling me ignorant then feel free.
McLaren
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This is a supercar.
This is not.
Let's review why.
Supercar:
A supercar is usually defined by more than performance. It is defined by price, power, rarity, & build quality on the usual basis. You could even consider the customer service on a long end. But a supercar includes all of these.
Price:
Your typical supercar sells for over $250,000-$275,000 these days. There are many cars beyond this point new, but price does not define the category alone.
Power:
Supercars perform at a level beyond most. 600Bhp has now become the new standard in the current. These cars are usually at the top of leaderboards as well. But like before, power & times alone do not define.
Rarity:
If there is 1 thing a supercar has, it's rarity. Although this does heavily depend on location, take note of how many examples are made of said supercar per year which is typically under 1,000. Look at today's current, or just slightly older supercars.
1,270 Carrera GT's = 635 cars per year.
3,500 total SLR's = 835 per year if it stopped now. However, there are not 3,500 SLR's built.
Murcielago 6.2 = 400 units per year leading to 1,600.
Murcielago 6.5 = 350 units per year leading to 700. A little higher though.
Enzo = 400 produced.
Zonda F = 25 produced according to factory.
Koenigsegg CCR = Under 50 units per year.
Veyron = 300 expected.
Notice how rarity is a huge similarity between supercars.
Build Quality
Yes, build quality is something in all supercars. Look at a 911 Carrera, and then look at a Carrera GT. The CGT just has so much more time invested in its building process. These supercars are built to the highest degree. Even if companies such as Ferrari & Porsche do it for all their models, you notice it's still higher in the Enzo or CGT. These cars are hand built, and put into conditions that push the car in every way. These cars are tested in the factory, out on the track, and back in the factory. If the car doesn't meet a standard though, it's back to see why. These cars are built this way to make sure you get your $300,000 worth. Having a car just do a break-ins means nothing as every manufacturer will do this for certain cars. It's to generally make sure they work properly. Supercars just go another level.
There is a reason is a supercar is a supercar. You have to look at the things all supercars share. You can't just have a car be equal in price, and claim it's a supercar. You can't just have the car be built in numbers of 20 limited editions. And you certainly can't just have a car set an equal lap time, and call it a supercar. A supercar hits all of these and more. Want proof? Go look at an Enzo or a Zonda. Notice how both cars have the same traits, not just 1 or 2.
Yes, there are many cars that could be questionably called supercars such as the Ultima or the SSC, and yes, I've also let out other traits such as presence.
The point is though, the GT-R is not a supercar, and never will be. Supercars are a class of their own. They all have certain traits that make them that. The only thing a GT-R has in common is a performance time. It still does not have build time, rarity or presence any of the cars I listed above have.
If the GT-R is a supercar, it is a Japanese supercar. Outside of Japan though, it's nothing more than a high-performance sports car.
This is not.
Let's review why.
Supercar:
A supercar is usually defined by more than performance. It is defined by price, power, rarity, & build quality on the usual basis. You could even consider the customer service on a long end. But a supercar includes all of these.
Price:
Your typical supercar sells for over $250,000-$275,000 these days. There are many cars beyond this point new, but price does not define the category alone.
Power:
Supercars perform at a level beyond most. 600Bhp has now become the new standard in the current. These cars are usually at the top of leaderboards as well. But like before, power & times alone do not define.
Rarity:
If there is 1 thing a supercar has, it's rarity. Although this does heavily depend on location, take note of how many examples are made of said supercar per year which is typically under 1,000. Look at today's current, or just slightly older supercars.
1,270 Carrera GT's = 635 cars per year.
3,500 total SLR's = 835 per year if it stopped now. However, there are not 3,500 SLR's built.
Murcielago 6.2 = 400 units per year leading to 1,600.
Murcielago 6.5 = 350 units per year leading to 700. A little higher though.
Enzo = 400 produced.
Zonda F = 25 produced according to factory.
Koenigsegg CCR = Under 50 units per year.
Veyron = 300 expected.
Notice how rarity is a huge similarity between supercars.
Build Quality
Yes, build quality is something in all supercars. Look at a 911 Carrera, and then look at a Carrera GT. The CGT just has so much more time invested in its building process. These supercars are built to the highest degree. Even if companies such as Ferrari & Porsche do it for all their models, you notice it's still higher in the Enzo or CGT. These cars are hand built, and put into conditions that push the car in every way. These cars are tested in the factory, out on the track, and back in the factory. If the car doesn't meet a standard though, it's back to see why. These cars are built this way to make sure you get your $300,000 worth. Having a car just do a break-ins means nothing as every manufacturer will do this for certain cars. It's to generally make sure they work properly. Supercars just go another level.
There is a reason is a supercar is a supercar. You have to look at the things all supercars share. You can't just have a car be equal in price, and claim it's a supercar. You can't just have the car be built in numbers of 20 limited editions. And you certainly can't just have a car set an equal lap time, and call it a supercar. A supercar hits all of these and more. Want proof? Go look at an Enzo or a Zonda. Notice how both cars have the same traits, not just 1 or 2.
Yes, there are many cars that could be questionably called supercars such as the Ultima or the SSC, and yes, I've also let out other traits such as presence.
The point is though, the GT-R is not a supercar, and never will be. Supercars are a class of their own. They all have certain traits that make them that. The only thing a GT-R has in common is a performance time. It still does not have build time, rarity or presence any of the cars I listed above have.
If the GT-R is a supercar, it is a Japanese supercar. Outside of Japan though, it's nothing more than a high-performance sports car.
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Eh, is this entire debate down to one single thing now?
Can't the GT-R be a supercar just because it's made by Nissan and doesn't cost a fortune?
If so, I see a lot of people blinded by brands here. The car performs like a supercar, has some of the most advanced technology in the automotive world, and has every right to be called a supercar. But it's getting shot down because it's a Nissan? Does it really matter that much who built it?
Can't the GT-R be a supercar just because it's made by Nissan and doesn't cost a fortune?
If so, I see a lot of people blinded by brands here. The car performs like a supercar, has some of the most advanced technology in the automotive world, and has every right to be called a supercar. But it's getting shot down because it's a Nissan? Does it really matter that much who built it?
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But XJ220 nullifies your statement about big cubes and gazillion cylinders.
still doesnt null my statement that it isnt a supercar,it was still a 2 seater,it was still hugely expensive,it still had huge power and was still rare.
so if i can get a vauxhall nova to perform like a supercar then it will be?
McLaren
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But XJ220 nullifies your statement about big cubes and gazillion cylinders.
Even though the XJ220 was going to be a V12, your point holds true. Cylinder output does not define a supercar. Today, it is a coincidence they are all V12's or V10's, or even a W16.
The R390, as Joey posted, exactly fits the bill. Look at what Nissan did to it make it a supercar, and what they've done to the GT-R. Then again, the R390 did start out as a race car, and I don't know if the R390 was officially sold to the public.
- 38,930
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- MP-Omnis
This is a supercar.
This is not.
Let's review why.
Supercar:
A supercar is usually defined by more than performance. It is defined by price, power, rarity, & build quality on the usual basis. You could even consider the customer service on a long end. But a supercar includes all of these.
Price:
Your typical supercar sells for over $250,000-$275,000 these days. There are many cars beyond this point new, but price does not define the category alone.
Power:
Supercars perform at a level beyond most. 600Bhp has now become the new standard in the current. These cars are usually at the top of leaderboards as well. But like before, power & times alone do not define.
Rarity:
If there is 1 thing a supercar has, it's rarity. Although this does heavily depend on location, take note of how many examples are made of said supercar per year which is typically under 1,000. Look at today's current, or just slightly older supercars.
1,270 Carrera GT's = 635 cars per year.
3,500 total SLR's = 835 per year if it stopped now. However, there are not 3,500 SLR's built.
Murcielago 6.2 = 400 units per year leading to 1,600.
Murcielago 6.5 = 350 units per year leading to 700. A little higher though.
Enzo = 400 produced.
Zonda F = 25 produced according to factory.
Koenigsegg CCR = Under 50 units per year.
Veyron = 300 expected.
Notice how rarity is a huge similarity between supercars.
Build Quality
Yes, build quality is something in all supercars. Look at a 911 Carrera, and then look at a Carrera GT. The CGT just has so much more time invested in its building process. These supercars are built to the highest degree. Even if companies such as Ferrari & Porsche do it for all their models, you notice it's still higher in the Enzo or CGT. These cars are hand built, and put into conditions that push the car in every way. These cars are tested in the factory, out on the track, and back in the factory. If the car doesn't meet a standard though, it's back to see why. These cars are built this way to make sure you get your $300,000 worth. Having a car just do a break-ins means nothing as every manufacturer will do this for certain cars. It's to generally make sure they work properly. Supercars just go another level.
There is a reason is a supercar is a supercar. You have to look at the things all supercars share. You can't just have a car be equal in price, and claim it's a supercar. You can't just have the car be built in numbers of 20 limited editions. And you certainly can't just have a car set an equal lap time, and call it a supercar. A supercar hits all of these and more. Want proof? Go look at an Enzo or a Zonda. Notice how both cars have the same traits, not just 1 or 2.
Yes, there are many cars that could be questionably called supercars such as the Ultima or the SSC, and yes, I've also let out other traits such as presence.
The point is though, the GT-R is not a supercar, and never will be. Supercars are a class of their own. They all have certain traits that make them that. The only thing a GT-R has in common is a performance time. It still does not have build time, rarity or presence any of the cars I listed above have.
If the GT-R is a supercar, it is a Japanese supercar. Outside of Japan though, it's nothing more than a high-performance sports car.
You're defining an EXOTIC as a Supercar! The criterion for Supercar is how fast it can get around a track. That's it.
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McLaren
Premium
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No, it's not. Being an Exotic is only part of a supercar. A supercar is NOT defined by track performance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercar
Exotic, though, defines as anything from a foreign land. Guess what. None of the cars I listed are from the US, therefore, here, they would be exotic. In Germany, all of those minus the Carrera GT, SLR, & Veyron would be exotic.
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Since when did they start calling Nobles Supercars? They always have been sports cars, just the same with TVR as well. Sure, they attempted to make the M15 a supercar, but it just isn't it.
Sports Cars:
Nissan GT-R, Porsche 911, Ferrari F430, Corvette Z06, Viper SRT-10, Lamborghini Gallardo, Audi R8, Aston Martin V8 Vantage, etc.
Supercars:
Nissan R390, McLaren F1, Porsche Carrera GT, Ferrari Enzo/FXX, Maserati MC12, Lamborghini LP640, Pagani Zonda, Koooeingsssseggggg CCX, Gumbert Apollo, SSC Ultimate Aero, Bugatti Veyron, etc.
