2011 Brazilian Grand Prix
- Thread starter prisonermonkeys
- 377 comments
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- 2,435
- Fuji
- NissmanR34
I think Bruno might just lose his seat for next season by stupidly making avoidable contact with Michael and ruining his results completly. He had a very good chance to get points at his home track and he blew it!
I would like the Senna name to be in F1 but he'll never be even close to his uncle. Which also makes me think, that maybe it would better that the holy ''SENNA'' name goes in history as it is, and not to expect a new Senna champion, which is not likely to ever happen.
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- 2,012
- Cranbrook, BC
- tezgm99
https://twitter.com/#!/EliGP/status/140849295757819904
"Sebastian Vettel has finished third in the constructors' championship"
and it's true, 392 for Seb vs 375 for Ferrari.
"Sebastian Vettel has finished third in the constructors' championship"
and it's true, 392 for Seb vs 375 for Ferrari.
- 3,509
- Cumberland, BC
- GTP_BlacqueJack
Way to go Mark 👍
It is about time Seb had reliability issues to deal with; good 2nd.
I hope next year's winner is decided on the last race
It is about time Seb had reliability issues to deal with; good 2nd.
I hope next year's winner is decided on the last race
- 717
- FactoryDriver
Couldn't you just insert "Mansell" where it says Vettel or "RB7" where it says "FW14"?
- 270
- United Kingdom
- David_JV
Because of a gearbox issue, which can't really be held against him.
And even if you think he slowed to let Webber win, that says more about Webber's inability to beat Vettel when he's on it.
Edit: http://twitter.com/#!/glenn_autosport/statuses/141087741688557569
Autosport believe it was genuine.
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Very happy to see these two have a smile together. There's competition that's exciting, and then there's the other kind. Hope they get on with it then.
- 3,679
- Warwick Uni
- lbsf1 GTP_lbsf1
- obsmu (my brothers acount)
It was probably Vettel's immaturity that caused the gearbox problems. That immature little kid.
It was probably the fact that even after being told repeated times to short shift he wasn't. The bbc was following him for about 1 and a half laps after his second warning to shortshift and he wasn't, he was still redlining it on every gear.
- 5,196
- Kuala Lumpur
- CHVRCHES_GTP
From what I observed, he did short shift when he got a warning in which Rocky sounded pretty desperate to just, at least let him finish. Instead, after a couple of laps later BAM! Fastest lap
There is something good behind this though. He's the kind of person that doesn't like losing to anybody - like, this is now or never... The spirit he has is good, but at the same time not helping himself and Red Bull either.
There is something good behind this though. He's the kind of person that doesn't like losing to anybody - like, this is now or never... The spirit he has is good, but at the same time not helping himself and Red Bull either.
- 19,685
- Alabamamania
What did he have to lose? Go for it, that's what the great drivers do.
It's not as if Coulthard won any championships for them, and he was pretty good in his prime.
csmeteora9
(Banned)
- 155
Perhaps it was slightly arrogant of Vettel, not to short shift, when he repeatedly being ordered to do so by the team. However, there wasn't much to loose in risking a retirement. Vettel had already secured the title, so had Red Bull. Also it isn't as if engines and gearboxes are carried through to the following season. So why not throw caution to the wind?
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- 5,196
- Kuala Lumpur
- CHVRCHES_GTP
See, in that race if he short shift and not setting those fastest laps Button might have caught him before the end of the race or maybe dropped even further down if Alonso managed to get him in the early stint. He doesn't like losing, or perhaps did you see how frustrated he was when he was forced to retire in Abu Dhabi? It's as if he's trying to make the dissapointment all on his own. I think he'd rather going home with a trophy rather than a faulty gearbox...
Great drivers always go for it definitely, but when you know you have a serious problem - you can think what's sensible and what's sensible to do so save it.
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That's what I'd do myself if I'm on Vettel's shoes. Drive as fast as possible but do short shift as been told by Rocky. On the last race of the season, doing so good throughout the weekend, started on pole only to have retired for not taking care of the sick gearbox, I'd be gutted for myself even if I have secured my Championship and RB secured the constructors. They obvously want a result and not a ''Oh that's fine, we have the championship backed up anyway so bla bla bla...''.
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The Outlaw
Premium
- 3,042
- Bay Area, California
- GTP_timeattack
It certainly is a bit arrogant of him to not obey the team orders, but then again what truly great driver hasn't had a good level arrogance.
I think you are certainly right that Vettel absolutely hates losing and tends to get flustered from time to time when he is in such a situation (at least from what we saw last year, when he had legitimate competition), so it will certainly be interesting to see how he deals with things once (or if) the competition catch up. For me I would get quite a kick out of seeing how he deals with flubbing around in say the 3rd best car on the grid in the near future. I don't want him to straight up fail for the remainder of his carreer, but I rather see him REALLY have to work for it...like Alonso has been doing for the past 5 years
I agree to an extent, but I'm not sure we fully understand what a team has on their mind in such a situation. For example, maybe RBR were trying to prevent a catrostrophic failure from happening, so they could have better evidence for examination after the race? Of course this faulty gearbox (but not completely blown to oblivion) would then give them a better example to work from, allowing them to fix or at least improve the noted weakness going into the next season. I'm not saying this was their intention, but the truth is - we truly don't know exactly what their reasoning was.
- 5,196
- Kuala Lumpur
- CHVRCHES_GTP
True that. What we're hearing during the race was just the word ''Gearbox problem..'' and we thought that it's just a gearbox problem, think it will last and just remind the driver once or twice and that's it. But the thing is, what made Rocky so serious about the problem is not just because he wanted to save their race, Vettel being a bit arrogant but also other things that might be more serious than the gearbox itself. Who the heck of us knew what the parameters were showing back there in the telemetry?
- 19,685
- Alabamamania
He held back a little, and probably drove at "98%" and still finished 2nd.
At the 1994 Spanish Grand Prix, Michael Schmuacher's Benetton had a gearbox problem where he lost two gears and still managed finished in 2nd place, after losing the lead.
At the 1991 Belgian Grand Prix, Ayrton Senna lost a gear — literally found himself with a "box full of neutrals" for a couple of moments — and about 20 seconds on one lap, and still managed to win that race (although, he was lucky that de Cesaris didn't catch him, and nearly every other worthy challenger retired).
The great ones generally press on.
I think Red Bull's principles are "we are a racing team" is first and foremost in their mind; had they been on the verge of losing the Constructor's title because they lost a few points, maybe they would chide Vettel for dirving in the way he did.
As it was he finished in second place, so this is all wasted breath.
- 5,196
- Kuala Lumpur
- CHVRCHES_GTP
I think losing 2 gears is different than having what's claimed by RBR as having a gearbox running out of oil and had a massive overheating (also which Steve Slater said could explode)? Right?
I think finally I'd say it's up to the drivers. If he wanted to push, keep on pushing. If he wanted to conserve his car and finish the race, let him do it barring what the team says...
- 10,373
- Manchester
- Ardius_
Perhaps because Red Bull wanted a 1-2 finish? Because Red Bull wanted the best possible result?
Finishing the year with Vettel's car blowing its gearbox to bits isn't exactly a great image. I'm not sure why Vettel would want this either, sure he would want the win, but he's got a choice between pushing the gearbox to its limit and potentially not finishing or preserving the gearbox and potentially winning anyway if Webber fell into trouble.
I doubt anyone in Red Bull's position would have done it differently. I don't know why people don't understand the team ordering Vettel not to blow his gearbox up. Its pretty much common sense.
Tired Tyres
Premium
- 12,592
- West Yorkshire
- Tired_Tyres
- Tired Tyres
I don't accept the Vettel had a gearbox issue for one second. You don't set fastest laps after being told about it if you have a problem.
To me this was Red Bull gifting a win to Mark Webber.
I have no issue with that, but I think they are they are simply too two-faced to say so and have to pretend Vettel had an issue.
To me this was Red Bull gifting a win to Mark Webber.
I have no issue with that, but I think they are they are simply too two-faced to say so and have to pretend Vettel had an issue.
- 24,628
- Anoka, MN
Or they didn't feel like being fined.💡
I'm highly skeptical as well, but at least they were more cunning than Ferrari was with their team orders.
Tired Tyres
Premium
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- Tired_Tyres
- Tired Tyres
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- Anoka, MN
Forgot about that, my bad.
Just because they aren't banned anymore doesn't mean the fanbase suddenly think they are ok.
- 5,379
- Yokohama
- F1fan1
You obviously have a short memory. Cast your mind back to Barcelona 2010. Vettel was managing a brake problem but was still on the radio asking about the fastest lap time. Likewise, Canada 2010 Vettel had a gearbox issue, and the team's response was "Don't even think about it".
