Seismica
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2012 Malaysian Grand Prix
- Thread starter prisonermonkeys
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dhandeh
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- dhandes
If you watch the YouTube video, Karthikeyan is following exactly the line the Marussia is taking, which is moving slightly away from the edge of the track. He doesnt flick away, just merely coasts.
Vettel tried to take a similar line, but unfortunately didn't clear the HRT. In hindsight, both could have done something to avoid the incident, but neither done it out of spite, in my opinion.
Vettel tried to take a similar line, but unfortunately didn't clear the HRT. In hindsight, both could have done something to avoid the incident, but neither done it out of spite, in my opinion.
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The people who matter determined Karth is at fault and gave him a penalty for it. The rest of you can sit here arguing all you want, but it's already over, he was at fault, deal with it.
With that being said, I think Vettel should receive a fine (monetary) for his behavior after the incident. I probably would have done the same thing, but that kind of behavior just isn't acceptable for F1.
With that being said, I think Vettel should receive a fine (monetary) for his behavior after the incident. I probably would have done the same thing, but that kind of behavior just isn't acceptable for F1.
- 10,373
- Manchester
- Ardius_
May as well throw in my 2p on this one but I consider the Vettel/Karthikeyan incident a racing incident where neither gave each other enough space...though I think that Vettel should probably be a little more careful when navigating cars like he does - this isn't the first time he has driven into a car that has been alongside him.
Reading Karthikeyan's account leads to me to believe he was busy trying to stay on the track when Vettel appeared out of nowhere - hardly the conditions you expect the HRT to be jumping out of the way.
As long as lapped cars do not impede the the race leaders, they have every right to their own space on the race track. The blue flag rule does not mean backmarkers should jump out of the way, they should just allow the car behind to pass. Seeing as there was plenty of track to right, I don't see what right Vettel has to expect the HRT to disappear for him.
Anyway, like I say, I consider it a racing incident, one that doesn't deserve a penalty. Cars that don't give enough respect and space for one another collide, that's racing. Karthikeyan could have been a little more aware but equally Vettel could have been a little more cautious and respectful.
It appears Seb seems to assume cars that are alongside him must submit to his presence on the race track as he had a similar reaction to one Mr M Webber a couple of years ago. Perhaps he would be better served to assume the other car is still there and is going to try and battle him rather than to assume everyone is happy to move completely out of his way.
Reading Karthikeyan's account leads to me to believe he was busy trying to stay on the track when Vettel appeared out of nowhere - hardly the conditions you expect the HRT to be jumping out of the way.
As long as lapped cars do not impede the the race leaders, they have every right to their own space on the race track. The blue flag rule does not mean backmarkers should jump out of the way, they should just allow the car behind to pass. Seeing as there was plenty of track to right, I don't see what right Vettel has to expect the HRT to disappear for him.
Anyway, like I say, I consider it a racing incident, one that doesn't deserve a penalty. Cars that don't give enough respect and space for one another collide, that's racing. Karthikeyan could have been a little more aware but equally Vettel could have been a little more cautious and respectful.
It appears Seb seems to assume cars that are alongside him must submit to his presence on the race track as he had a similar reaction to one Mr M Webber a couple of years ago. Perhaps he would be better served to assume the other car is still there and is going to try and battle him rather than to assume everyone is happy to move completely out of his way.
Tired Tyres
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Stewards are not infallible, you should deal with that. Racing incidents are just that, and nobody's specific fault. Them placing blame is what is wrong here.
Vettel's behaviour is what bothers me. It's not just his inability to accept he has any responsibility to act in a proper and correct way.
It's how he acts as if he owns the track and everybody should get out of his way. It's something I've seen in other drivers when they start to feel bulletproof - It's not long after that when they have a very big accident.
A fine won't mean a thing to him. Being forced to stand down for a race would - that is what he would be doing if I was head of the FIA. Fortunately or unfortunately for him I'm not.
- 2,069
- Japan / Seattle
His behavior did not effect the results of the race, so a racing related penalty would be unfit. A monetary fine is completely appropriate.
A person who is normally at the bottom of the leaderboards due to his driving skills and being in an inferior car SHOULD keep out of the way.
A person who is normally at the bottom of the leaderboards due to his driving skills and being in an inferior car SHOULD keep out of the way.
- 10,373
- Manchester
- Ardius_
Kathikeyan is bottom of the "leaderboard" (its more a championship than a leaderboard...but anyway) because of the car he is in. I'm pretty sure he would be quite a bit higher if was in a McLaren, regardless what you think of his talent.
And its irrelevant anyway - by qualifying for the race and for a super license, the FIA has already deemed Karthikeyan fit to race in F1 so he has every right to his own space on the race track. Blue flags and lapping rules do not state anything about jumping out of the way, but simply state the lapped driver must allow the leading driver to pass safely - thats assuming the leading driver has the ability to complete a safe pass....
Like it or not, HRT are racing in F1. Not driving around making sure Vettel has an empty road.
Its conversations like this which make me start to favour those who ask for blue flags and lapping rules to be abolished. I personally prefer that the battle with the race leaders is allowed to take place without interference from backmarkers..but the way people treat the backmarkers these days as if they have no right to race themselves....ergh.
If this was a sportscar race I'm pretty sure Vettel would have given Karthikeyan more room knowing he would be still racing just as hard. But because of the blue flag rules and the attitude everyone seems to have these days in F1, he seems to lack any respect whatsoever for backmarkers.
And its irrelevant anyway - by qualifying for the race and for a super license, the FIA has already deemed Karthikeyan fit to race in F1 so he has every right to his own space on the race track. Blue flags and lapping rules do not state anything about jumping out of the way, but simply state the lapped driver must allow the leading driver to pass safely - thats assuming the leading driver has the ability to complete a safe pass....
Like it or not, HRT are racing in F1. Not driving around making sure Vettel has an empty road.
Its conversations like this which make me start to favour those who ask for blue flags and lapping rules to be abolished. I personally prefer that the battle with the race leaders is allowed to take place without interference from backmarkers..but the way people treat the backmarkers these days as if they have no right to race themselves....ergh.
If this was a sportscar race I'm pretty sure Vettel would have given Karthikeyan more room knowing he would be still racing just as hard. But because of the blue flag rules and the attitude everyone seems to have these days in F1, he seems to lack any respect whatsoever for backmarkers.
Seismica
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The stewards hand out punishments not based on the causes of an incident, but the consequences.
If two drivers collide and one gets a puncture, 90% of the time it's the driver who didn't get a puncture who gets the penalty.
I don't agree with this method of the stewards because apportioning blame of particular incidents based on the consequences instead of the causes introduces a lot of inconsistency and unfairness, but that is just the way it is.
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Seismica
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It's not a rule, but it is a trend in decisions made over the past 2-3 seasons.
So maybe I should replace the '90%' with 'most of the time'?
They do look at the causes of the incident but they only hand out punishments based on the consequences. Notice how Button wasn't punished for rear-ending Karthikeyan? If Narain had got a puncture and the Mclaren was left unscathed he (Jenson) would have almost certainly got a penalty for it.
Or like how last season Hamilton would always come better off in collisions with Massa hence why he kept getting penalised. The only time he took damage and Massa didn't was in India, and Felipe got the penalty, it's not a coincidence.
- 3,035
- Kingston, Jamaica
- pj-gm
- PJwasHere876
Karthikeyan was following all the rules he is supposed to follow as a car being lapped. He is not required to back off once the car is already enough ahead, and he couldn't brake, because he didn't expect Vettel to suddenly turn back onto his line when the overtake was not yet complete.
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This is almost as bad as American Football fans who will argue a ref's call a week after the game is over. What's done is done, Karth was penalized, Vettel was not, that should tell you enough right there. Move on.
- 23,800
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The same people who decided to invent the "no-re-passing-after-passing-off-the-track-and-slowing-down-to-give-the-place-back-to-the-other-driver-because-gosh-it's-still-unfair-even-if-you've-given-back-the-place" rule in order to penalize Hamilton for his move on Kimi a few years back?
Stewards are, like any other referee in sports, fallible.
As said, over the past few years, they've been giving out penalties partially based on outcomes as well as behavior... leading to some questionable penalties being given out.
Like I've said, this penalty is most likely more to serve as a warning to backmarkers to stay well clear when being lapped rather than to simply penalize Karthikayen for improper driving.
Subscribe to a cable channel that shows F1 races and wait for the replay.
- 108
- Santa Barbara
- dudedo
Nobody's gonna give Vettel any penalty for his hand signal. It's a common form of communication in Formula 1.
As seen here:
And here:
And even this didn't get J.P. Montoya a fine (I think):
VIEWER DISCRETION ADVISED
Well damn. So much for sleeping at a reasonable hour tonight.
*Looks to watch* 0.0 ten past 2!
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- HamiltonMP427
No I agree with you, it was a bit more Vettel's fault.
- 2,435
- Fuji
- NissmanR34
Any idea why Vettel didn't want to finish the race? As I remeber he wanted to pit and finish the race in the last lap but the team woudn't let him.
My guess is he rather not finish the race than finish 11th with no points. He's really not taking well this poor start to the season. Even before the race he was looking like he wants to bite of a piece of his car.
My guess is he rather not finish the race than finish 11th with no points. He's really not taking well this poor start to the season. Even before the race he was looking like he wants to bite of a piece of his car.
Tired Tyres
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It was the team that wanted Vettel to stop, not Vettel. His radio wasn't working so he didn't get the (conflicting) messages.
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- SiiverArrow
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I'm not sure if it's about him being gay or just completely perverted. All his comments are innuendos... Maybe the writer has a thing for him
