2016 MotoGP/ WSBK/ Road Racing ThreadMotorbikes

[Pillo-san]

I am searching and searching about the 240hp but all I see instead are posts about making motogp smaller in engine size because of bikes having 280hp,

one of the posts I found right now.

http://www.gpone.com/en/20161122371...motogp-bikes-are-too-powerful.html?refresh_ce

about your link, it is the trackday bike that we mere mortals can get our hands on that have 240bhp, and not the race ready prototype. They do not mention anything about what the rest of the prototype motogp field(class) hp make, only the reason why they have watered down the rc16.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I am searching and searching about the 240hp but all I see instead are posts about making motogp smaller in engine size because of bikes having 280hp,

one of the posts I found right now.

http://www.gpone.com/en/20161122371...motogp-bikes-are-too-powerful.html?refresh_ce

about your link, it is the trackday bike that we mere mortals can get our hands on that have 240bhp, and not the race ready prototype. They do not mention anything about what the rest of the prototype motogp field(class) hp make, only the reason why they have watered down the rc16.

No he says in the interview read the link again that the race bike is limited to 240 for reliability reason and the track day bike is 270hp. Also your link gives no official relation to 280hp, it just says that it's predicted or expected that the bikes are around that level of horsepower. Also I never said they talked about the rest of the field, but I did say I can provide sources on the power level for the others.

 

[Pillo-san]

where does it say the prototype they race only have 240hp? the article is about the trakbike being 240bhp for reliability.


We want to be as close to the MotoGP bikes as possible. 270 hp will of course not be, but with 240 hp one must count reliably."

KTM RC16 MotoGP

The KTM RC16 will be limited to around 100 units, while power will be restricted to 240hp from the litre-class V4 high performance engine. In comparison, the MotoGP version of the hyperbike makes 270hp. So, yes, while the power output has been mellowed down on the 'civilian' version of the track only bike, it will still be more than a handful for whoever manages to race it around.

And I gave ya a link where they raised the concerns about the bikes being at the 280hk mark, there is a lot of sites out there with states similar figures. And hearing it from Dylan about the Ducati is also a valid assertion of the bike performance. Even though no one should just blatantly trust anything they hear I do think Dylan from Official Motogp commentator team has a lot of weight behind him. After all the ducati 800cc did output around 250bhp

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

where does it say the prototype they race only have 240hp? the article is about the trakbike being 240bhp for reliability.


We want to be as close to the MotoGP bikes as possible. 270 hp will of course not be, but with 240 hp one must count reliably."

KTM RC16 MotoGP

The KTM RC16 will be limited to around 100 units, while power will be restricted to 240hp from the litre-class V4 high performance engine. In comparison, the MotoGP version of the hyperbike makes 270hp. So, yes, while the power output has been mellowed down on the 'civilian' version of the track only bike, it will still be more than a handful for whoever manages to race it around.

And I gave ya a link where they raised the concerns about the bikes being at the 280hk mark, there is a lot of sites out there with states similar figures. And hearing it from Dylan about the Ducati is also a valid assertion of the bike performance. Even though no one should just blatantly trust anything they hear I do think Dylan from Official Motogp commentator team has a lot of weight behind him. After all the ducati 800cc did output around 250bhp

http://www.yamaha-racing.com/motogp/bike claims 240 official site
http://www.sportrider.com/motogp-2016-ducati-desmosedici-gp#page-4 motorcycle magazine covering the bike claims 245
http://www.ducati.com/racing/motogp/bike/index.do source sportrider seems to have used which happens to be the official racing team's site.
http://world.honda.com/MotoGP/spec/ over 180 kw which is around 240 hp
https://suzuki-racing.com/motogp/machine.aspx?OBJ_ID=52137 over 176 kw
http://www.mcnews.com.au/2016-aprilia-rs-gp-motogp/ over 245hp or 250 cv

http://www.aprilia.com/en_EN/models/motorbikes/road/rsv4/rsv4-fw/ here is the WSBK for comparison

As for the KTM all you've done is confirm that I read it correctly the first time, and my correction was wrong. So from what you can see we're back to square one. I trust the official numbers more than I would a commentator. Sure they could be a lie, but until you can prove that, then one must take them for face value. As I said these bikes from what I've shown and seen over the years have stayed in this ball park. I remember LRC saying that the 2012 bike was over 250 going toward 260 which is why I said 240-260. Now maybe KTM are doing something different others aren't and potentially playing with fire reliability wise, or they need the power to compensate for weak points in the rest of the bike.

The KTM also retired from the shakedown race it came to, with electrical problems, and didn't qualify that great to begin with. So my point is I think the others are running what is claimed because there is no need to run higher than that if the frame is well made. Which brings us back to the original reason I pointed this out, I found it amazing that WSBK bikes running similar numbers of hp on factory production frames did so well. As I said I'm not surprised by the electronics of WSBK being better or on par with the standard ECU Doran has used. The only thing that can make a production race bike on par with the super protos of GP would be electronics to me.

 

[Pillo-san]

No man, those "official" numbers are only are there for a presentation of the bike. The spec of the bike changes quite regularly, and you notice that they write(over) when hp numbers come up. We mere mortals will not know exactly what those monsters are making until they get replaced because teams do not want do divulge to much about their bikes to the competitors. As you know the motogp replicas have up to 240bhp, with less advanced parts. No pneumatic valvesystem or the seamless transmission will find its way onto a replica just yet. So judging by that a real motogp weapon must have way more hp than 240 as stated in those outdated presentations of the bikes.

 

[adamp93]

Which brings us back to the original reason I pointed this out, I found it amazing that WSBK bikes running similar numbers of hp on factory production frames did so well. As I said I'm not surprised by the electronics of WSBK being better or on par with the standard ECU Doran has used. The only thing that can make a production race bike on par with the super protos of GP would be electronics to me.

Tyres as well, we're comparing times at Jerez which was Michelin's 4th race back whereas WSBK have been using Pirelli for about 10 years now. The electronics are the biggest factor, no doubt, but the early front Michelins were notoriously difficult to handle.

What we can all agree on is that 240+bhp is a ****ton of power for something that weighs 150kg dripping wet!

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Tyres as well, we're comparing times at Jerez which was Michelin's 4th race back whereas WSBK have been using Pirelli for about 10 years now. The electronics are the biggest factor, no doubt, but the early front Michelins were notoriously difficult to handle.

What we can all agree on is that 240+bhp is a ****ton of power for something that weighs 150kg dripping wet!

Oh no I agree 240 on something of that size, is quite the weapon. I also forget that Michelin tires have had many struggles this past season and could use this winter sorting that out.

No man, those "official" numbers are only are there for a presentation of the bike. The spec of the bike changes quite regularly, and you notice that they write(over) when hp numbers come up. We mere mortals will not know exactly what those monsters are making until they get replaced because teams do not want do divulge to much about their bikes to the competitors. As you know the motogp replicas have up to 240bhp, with less advanced parts. No pneumatic valvesystem or the seamless transmission will find its way onto a replica just yet. So judging by that a real motogp weapon must have way more hp than 240 as stated in those outdated presentations of the bikes.

Sure keep moving the goal post, as I said I've provided info showing what the bikes run unless you have something that actually disputes this rather than conjecture, feel free to post it. You coming up with a hypothesis on circumstantial evidence isn't really a great basis of proof, also rather than not quoting me just to have the last word and hope this conversation goes away (I have this as a watched thread btw) just quote me.

 

[Pillo-san]

Look for example at the new sbk racer from Aprilia the RSV4 R FW-GP that you can buy if you have the cash.
From the spec sheet:
The starting point is the top of the range RSV4 R FW SBK, but the Aprilia V4 engine, derived from the unit in the RS-GP 15, has 81 mm bore and pneumatic valve timing to guarantee maximum power of more than 250 HP.

it got a old and slow gp engine and yet it is said to produce about 250hp. So if both ktm and aprilia sbk racer have 240-250hk dont you think that the prototype racer bikes must have way higher hp figures?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Look for example at the new sbk racer from Aprilia the RSV4 R FW-GP that you can buy if you have the cash.
From the spec sheet:
The starting point is the top of the range RSV4 R FW SBK, but the Aprilia V4 engine, derived from the unit in the RS-GP 15, has 81 mm bore and pneumatic valve timing to guarantee maximum power of more than 250 HP.

it got a old and slow gp engine and yet it is said to produce about 250hp. So if both ktm and aprilia sbk racer have 240-250hk dont you think that the prototype racer bikes must have way higher hp figures?

Once again, unless you have something other than theory based on circumstance. Then no I don't, all you've claimed is they have to cause they're GP bikes. However, with weaker electronics it could easily be said that the 240-250 hp figure and some lower in moto gp are the best running power levels with the current setups.

Also it's funny how a non moto gp manufacture is beating guys like this who use their old proto bikes make them build to order manufacture bikes and still lose.

 

[Pillo-san]

Once again, unless you have something other than theory based on circumstance. Then no I don't, all you've claimed is they have to cause they're GP bikes. However, with weaker electronics it could easily be said that the 240-250 hp figure and some lower in moto gp are the best running power levels with the current setups.

Also it's funny how a non moto gp manufacture is beating guys like this who use their old proto bikes make them build to order manufacture bikes and still lose.

Merry X-mass, but I do not really follow your last sentence.. explain please

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Merry X-mass, but I do not really follow your last sentence.. explain please

Simple Aprilia uses a former motogp as a platform for WSBK the same could be said for others like Ducati using engineers from the gp side for WSBK and then using developments from ECU, motor and other items into the SBK bikes. You have MV, BMW and Kawa that are not gp teams and yet seem to out perform the guys that should have more experience on the technical end from trickle down.

 

[Pillo-san]

Ah you mean like that, but still you neglect the fact that Motogp have simpler electronics specs package a new brand that is delivering tires and if I remember correctly no top factory team was present at test compared to the SBK paddock. If the Top factory teams where present the results would not be like that.

Like I said, SBK had a more advanced electronics package this year and has been stuck with proven Pirelli bran of tires for years now. Development especially for something critical like the tires take time. Even on street tires you can go seconds faster if they click with ya and your riding style. So in that department there was nothing to trickle down when sbk used a higher spec electronics package and a tottaly different spec tires. After all in a spec tire championship you build or least adapt a bike after/around the tires not the other way around usually so they are totally different machines with different conditions.

If you remember Aprilia raced under the CRT regulations not so long ago and then it was using a tricked out rsv4 engine with pneumatic valves. Later on the motogp eninge would become a evolution of that so it is either the first incarnation or the evoulion engine that Aprilia is packaging in this monster of racer.

 

[Pillo-san]

So it seems Triumph will be the engine provider for the moto2 class starting 2019.
https://motomatters.com/news/2017/01/07/triumph_set_to_become_official_moto2.html

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Yamaha launch their 2017 bike:

http://www.speedcafe.com/2017/01/20/yamaha-launches-2017-motogp-challenger/

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Shouldn't there be a 2017 thread for that type of thing by now?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Fun fact: Dylan the commentator (I forget his last name) also does commentary for the FIS Slopestyle World Cup.

 

[adamp93]

Shouldn't there be a 2017 thread for that type of thing by now?

The thread title just gets changed once a year.

Is anybody else hoping we get exclusive scoops here thanks to @Tom in his new job?

 

[Tom]

Haha, sorry to disappoint you!