2017 F1 Constructor technical info/developmentFormula 1

[LeGeNd-1]

Racing is pretty rational, it's probably one of the best ways to stress test designs that later go on to other potential road based machines. I'd say there is irrational racing that is purely sport and entertainment, but F1 for decades has been something other than just sport, and so has top level sports car racing. I mean if you heard the cars after 2005 (ignore STR) you'd have come to the same realization. People complained when V12 were gone, people complained when DFV were no longer a thing, the when V10s went, when the power of the turbos first time around were no more, and then the last gen v8s. I mean people know these engines aren't ever lasting the sooner you get over that the sooner you can enjoy the sport more so, then living a nostalgic dream. Enjoying them is one thing, but each passing year wishing to seem them comeback is a whole other argument.

I imagine if it sounded more like it does in a test people would love them.

Yeah, I know we gotta move on with the times. It's just hard when I've been watching F1 for 10 years with V10 and then now it sounds quieter than GP2 cars. Something just doesn't feel right, even after a few years with these turbo engines. I mean I spoke to alot of my friends who watch F1 casually and they all say the sound is what they miss most from the current era. Trickle down technology is good, but let's face it WEC and GT racing is more relevant to road cars than Formula cars (unless you're daily driving an Ariel Atom lol).

That test video sounds good though. Why does it sound so different compared to when it's running in a car?

 

[TenEightyOne]

Yeah, I know we gotta move on with the times. It's just hard when I've been watching F1 for 10 years with V10 and then now it sounds quieter than GP2 cars. Something just doesn't feel right, even after a few years with these turbo engines. I mean I spoke to alot of my friends who watch F1 casually and they all say the sound is what they miss most from the current era. Trickle down technology is good, but let's face it WEC and GT racing is more relevant to road cars than Formula cars (unless you're daily driving an Ariel Atom lol).

That test video sounds good though. Why does it sound so different compared to when it's running in a car?

If your friends watch it casually then I suspect they're not at the track... so they hear it through the TV mics. That seems to be a problem, the TV companies haven't found a good way to get the balance right.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

If your friends watch it casually then I suspect they're not at the track... so they hear it through the TV mics. That seems to be a problem, the TV companies haven't found a good way to get the balance right.

Nah here in Melbourne I've got friends who live close by Albert Park and they hear it every year. Same issue - it just doesn't sound as visceral as the cars of old anymore. No amount if TV mixing can fix the current sounds.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Yeah, I know we gotta move on with the times. It's just hard when I've been watching F1 for 10 years with V10 and then now it sounds quieter than GP2 cars. Something just doesn't feel right, even after a few years with these turbo engines. I mean I spoke to alot of my friends who watch F1 casually and they all say the sound is what they miss most from the current era. Trickle down technology is good, but let's face it WEC and GT racing is more relevant to road cars than Formula cars (unless you're daily driving an Ariel Atom lol).

That test video sounds good though. Why does it sound so different compared to when it's running in a car?

What? V10s ended back in 2005, so unless you time warped to this season from there, I'm not sure what to tell you. The last time you heard a V10 was most likely 2006, it's been 10 years since. GP2 is louder cause it's a pretty simplistic V8 that you could find in a GTE car of similar 4 liter background. I mean hell I've enjoyed the sound from the Mercedes emergency vehicle for the past 20 years than I have the actual high pitch air raid siren called an F1 engine. Doesn't mean I can't enjoy the sport still.

It has nothing to do with feel, the energy is going else where which is why the cars are more quite, and still more powerful and faster.

Also you and others seem to not get the point of F1 for the past several years. Transmission technology, suspension technology and even aero, have all had benefits to road vehicles. Just cause an atom sort of looks the part doesn't mean that's the only place it's gone, there are many cars that benefit from it. Now the easiest place to see it is in high end vehicles but with the technology used currently it's more so done to be useful in common vehicles as well.

As for GT racing...what benefit is there to the road cars for GT? GTE perhaps, GT3...no. When the car is built first then the race equivalent is built, shows there isn't an relevance from track to road. Manufactures have already said the benefits to the new engines have already come through to road cars, and WEC is the same. People think the car has to actually look like a road car to be relevant, but that's not at all true, and somewhat simplistic in thought.

A Porsche P1 doesn't look anything like we'll see on the road for some time, but I guarantee you the technology from coupling a V4 turbo with hybrid systems, will encourage many manufactures over to figure out how to do it, or get help from VAG.

Also here is an article on why the nosecones are used.
http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/f1/aesthetics-formula-1-nose

 

[ukfan758]

If your friends watch it casually then I suspect they're not at the track... so they hear it through the TV mics. That seems to be a problem, the TV companies haven't found a good way to get the balance right.

To add, there's probably a long list of groups that get the audio/video feed before your brain processes the sound. You could have:

1. The cars themselves and their exhaust systems (which may output different sounds at varying volumes)
2. Microphone (location and type yield different results)
3. Audio cables
4. FOM world feed (Includes reception of audio, adjustments, and final product)
5. Transmission via satellite or cables
6. Reception and adjusting by the broadcasting networks (ex: Sky, C4, NBC, TEN) (*Commentary audio priority may lower or muffle car audio*)
7. Transmission via satellite or cables
8. Reception and adjusting by the TV Providers (ex: Direct TV, DISH, Comcast)
9. Transmission to customers
10. Cable or Satellite Box
11. Television or sound system (*large variances in audio quality*)
12. Volume setting
13. Ear
14. Brain

 

[LeGeNd-1]

What? V10s ended back in 2005, so unless you time warped to this season from there, I'm not sure what to tell you. The last time you heard a V10 was most likely 2006, it's been 10 years since. GP2 is louder cause it's a pretty simplistic V8 that you could find in a GTE car of similar 4 liter background. I mean hell I've enjoyed the sound from the Mercedes emergency vehicle for the past 20 years than I have the actual high pitch air raid siren called an F1 engine. Doesn't mean I can't enjoy the sport still.

It has nothing to do with feel, the energy is going else where which is why the cars are more quite, and still more powerful and faster.

Also you and others seem to not get the point of F1 for the past several years. Transmission technology, suspension technology and even aero, have all had benefits to road vehicles. Just cause an atom sort of looks the part doesn't mean that's the only place it's gone, there are many cars that benefit from it. Now the easiest place to see it is in high end vehicles but with the technology used currently it's more so done to be useful in common vehicles as well.

As for GT racing...what benefit is there to the road cars for GT? GTE perhaps, GT3...no. When the car is built first then the race equivalent is built, shows there isn't an relevance from track to road. Manufactures have already said the benefits to the new engines have already come through to road cars, and WEC is the same. People think the car has to actually look like a road car to be relevant, but that's not at all true, and somewhat simplistic in thought.

A Porsche P1 doesn't look anything like we'll see on the road for some time, but I guarantee you the technology from coupling a V4 turbo with hybrid systems, will encourage many manufactures over to figure out how to do it, or get help from VAG.

Also here is an article on why the nosecones are used.
http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/f1/aesthetics-formula-1-nose

I'm aware V10s ended in 2005, but the replacement V8 still sounded high pitched too. Not as good, but still recognisably F1. I started watching F1 in early 2000s so from then until the end of V8s (2013) is around 10 years or so of hearing screaming 18,000 rpm NA engines. People who have watched F1 longer, who have heard DFV V8s and the turbos from the 1980s might be more tolerant of engine sound changes. Unfortunately my brain is conditioned to only expect a high pitched noise coming from a Formula shaped car. And until I've watched 10+ seasons with the current V6T engines, I don't think that is going to change. Probably never will either because whenever I drive F1 in games I tend to pick older cars with screamy engines.

I get all the other parts of technology will trickle down and I'm grateful for that. But F1 in my mind should always be the fastest, best looking, most dramatic and passionate racing cars on this planet. There are lots of other motorsport branches that can experiment with different power unit configurations without sacrificing their core identity. I'm sorry, but the current V6T just doesn't do it for me. I recognise it's much more advanced technologically and environmentally, but it's just lacking soul. Happy with all other innovations, but Formula 1 cars need to SCREAM

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I'm aware V10s ended in 2005, but the replacement V8 still sounded high pitched too. Not as good, but still recognisably F1. I started watching F1 in early 2000s so from then until the end of V8s (2013) is around 10 years or so of hearing screaming 18,000 rpm NA engines. People who have watched F1 longer, who have heard DFV V8s and the turbos from the 1980s might be more tolerant of engine sound changes. Unfortunately my brain is conditioned to only expect a high pitched noise coming from a Formula shaped car. And until I've watched 10+ seasons with the current V6T engines, I don't think that is going to change. Probably never will either because whenever I drive F1 in games I tend to pick older cars with screamy engines.

They're all high pitch for the configuration they run. Once again it's been explained why they don't sound as loud as they could or did back in the 80s.

I get all the other parts of technology will trickle down and I'm grateful for that. But F1 in my mind should always be the fastest, best looking, most dramatic and passionate racing cars on this planet. There are lots of other motorsport branches that can experiment with different power unit configurations without sacrificing their core identity. I'm sorry, but the current V6T just doesn't do it for me. I recognise it's much more advanced technologically and environmentally, but it's just lacking soul. Happy with all other innovations, but Formula 1 cars need to SCREAM

It is the fastest for one, and is faster than it has been in some time. As for the best looking that is always going to be subjective, the racing is quite passionate and does have plenty of drama. Nothing has been sacrificed. Trying to stretch the fact that sound is missing into something more is really pushing the goal post. Also lacking soul? What is with the existentialist arguments, cars don't need to scream to be fast or create the excitement of F1, there is so much more to it than that, and to basically base that on primarily sound is silly.

 

[PeterJB]

There's even an image of it going around. I have no idea where it's from though, looks like a video game (F1 2017 beta?)

Looks like someone put the Williams in the washing machine with the Ferrari by accident.

 

[Touring Mars]

Looks like someone put the Williams in the washing machine with the Ferrari by accident.

I like it - I think they needed to stand out more and this will certainly do the trick...

 

[05XR8]

For Australian viewers with Foxtel. Fox Sports will be showing Formula One, 24/7 from March 20-26.

 

[C-ZETA]

Tell you what, that new Force India livery does very well to distract how dreadful the actual car looks. The livery they needed to have.

 

[Northstar]

Tell you what, that new Force India livery does very well to distract how dreadful the actual car looks. The livery they needed to have.

I just like how butthurt comment sections are getting over the fact there will be a pink racecar on the grid. I'd hate/love to see their reaction to an itasha F1 car.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

For Australian viewers with Foxtel. Fox Sports will be showing Formula One, 24/7 from March 20-26.

It's more than that - FOX Sports 5 is becoming a dedicated Formula 1 channel. Every session will be broadcast on channel 506 (sometimes practice sessions and re-runs are shown on 503 and 504 if there is other live sport on), plus content from previous seasons, like what they did after Abu Dhabi.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/...insight---the-secrets-to-ferrari-s-sf70h.html

Ferrari yet again surprise me, last time it was putting a static mounting through a gear box to make the car more rigid, now it's making channeling/ducting for the hydraulics and gearbox integrated into the floor board. Instead if it being beneath the engine cover itself it's further away to stay cooler and do its job better. It's just clever use of the now wider cars and still with in the regs. There innovations might not be ground breaking to win a wdc, but when they do many clever things in one season they run a higher chance it could be said.

 

[DesertPenguin09]

Think how sexy the cars would look without that entire black flat piece covering the back of the car. Can we get some photoshops of those?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Think how sexy the cars would look without that entire black flat piece covering the back of the car. Can we get some photoshops of those?

the floor board is proportional to the new width, thus it was just as bad in past seasons cause it's always been a proportional piece based on car width.

 

[DesertPenguin09]

Yea, but why does it need to exist in the first place? Without it the cars would look a hell of lot more like their 1960s counterparts

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Yea, but why does it need to exist in the first place? Without it the cars would look a hell of lot more like their 1960s counterparts

So the rest of the car works as intended, the floor boards help the rest of the aero pieces. Also they're never going to look like the 60s or somewhat even with it removed. I mean should they?

 

[DesertPenguin09]

Well the large opening opening when the noses were much higher reminding me of the big openings of the old front engined cars. If they go for less downforce that should be the first to go

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Well the large opening opening when the noses were much higher reminding me of the big openings of the old front engined cars. If they go for less downforce that should be the first to go

You'd have to show an image cause I'm not seeing it in my mind. Also they've had years of much less downforce in recent and the floor board was still obvious.

 

[mustafur]

It's more than that - FOX Sports 5 is becoming a dedicated Formula 1 channel. Every session will be broadcast on channel 506 (sometimes practice sessions and re-runs are shown on 503 and 504 if there is other live sport on), plus content from previous seasons, like what they did after Abu Dhabi.

I hope we eventually get the individual driver cams like they do in UK and we do in Supercars, even though its not the best in supercars because of a close field it would be perfect for F1 as half the grid wont get airtime.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Think how sexy the cars would look without that entire black flat piece covering the back of the car. Can we get some photoshops of those?

They've had those for quite a long time now, from underneath the car is effectively rectangular.

Without it the cars would look a hell of lot more like their 1960s counterparts

I'm not seeing it...

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/analysis-how-big-is-the-mclaren-honda-crisis-882530/

More on the Honda

 

[TenEightyOne]

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/analysis-how-big-is-the-mclaren-honda-crisis-882530/

More on the Honda

Various sites are already talking about a "break clause" (for the contract, not the engine itself), as we've already discussed here and in the pre-2017 thread there must surely be caveats built into the agreement for each side to exercise.

Right now it looks like a question of "when?" and not "if?", it looks like the only good solution for an ongoing McLaren-Honda relationship is for Honda to turn up in Australia with a convincing engine in terms of reliability, and some power by Bahrain.

Otherwise it's time for that live TV engine draw!

 

[Pete05]

Various sites are already talking about a "break clause" (for the contract, not the engine itself), as we've already discussed here and in the pre-2017 thread there must surely be caveats built into the agreement for each side to exercise.

Right now it looks like a question of "when?" and not "if?", it looks like the only good solution for an ongoing McLaren-Honda relationship is for Honda to turn up in Australia with a convincing engine in terms of reliability, and some power by Bahrain.

Otherwise it's time for that live TV engine draw!

So let's crystal ball this for a moment.

What alternative does McLaren have if, by Bahrain, they're still seconds off the pace & absolutely nowhere competitively?

How many engines will McLaren need to qualify both cars at Albert Park?

Maybe they should look at using the 2016 Honda engine, if it even fits this year's car, until they can do something about this year's diabolical lump.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

So let's crystal ball this for a moment.

What alternative does McLaren have if, by Bahrain, they're still seconds off the pace & absolutely nowhere competitively?

How many engines will McLaren need to qualify both cars at Albert Park?

Maybe they should look at using the 2016 Honda engine, if it even fits this year's car, until they can do something about this year's diabolical lump.

Well if you believe the team principle in a recent interview, not many. EB claims that they expected this and it's not as bad as media is making it out to be. So I don't know who is to believe. Though he did say, that if McLaren still had Merc engines they'd have won and currently be winners. If that's not a shot across the bow I don't know what is.

Though I would say that come Australia they should qualify, if they finish the race is the question.

Various sites are already talking about a "break clause" (for the contract, not the engine itself), as we've already discussed here and in the pre-2017 thread there must surely be caveats built into the agreement for each side to exercise.

Right now it looks like a question of "when?" and not "if?", it looks like the only good solution for an ongoing McLaren-Honda relationship is for Honda to turn up in Australia with a convincing engine in terms of reliability, and some power by Bahrain.

Otherwise it's time for that live TV engine draw!

When would be at the start of another season that isn't 2017, they're already set up, to leave and then some how get another current manufacture to give them engines? Not going to happen.

 

[Mike_grpA]

For Australian viewers with Foxtel. Fox Sports will be showing Formula One, 24/7 from March 20-26.

You should have seen the look of disgust on my fiance's face when i told her this great news

Yea, but why does it need to exist in the first place? Without it the cars would look a hell of lot more like their 1960s counterparts

Without the floors the cars would produce less than 60% of the downforce they currently do. Also, without the downforce produced by the floor, the cars would be almost solely reliant on their front and rear wings for downforce, making the loss of aero balance in dirty air far more of a problem.

Edit: I personally love the 2017 look, especially the Ferrari, though I'm admittedly a bit of a Tifoso, so I'll admit to a certain amount of bias on that one

 

[TenEightyOne]

McLaren have, according to Aunty, made preparatory approaches to Mercedes.

When would be at the start of another season that isn't 2017, they're already set up, to leave and then some how get another current manufacture to give them engines? Not going to happen.

I tend to agree, I imagine that a swap would be held over Honda for 2018. Still, if the will (and contractual possibility) exists and a compromise chassis alteration is do-able for 2017 it might be the best of a bad job.

 

[Dotini]

get the point of F1 for the past several years...technology

Suppose technology was improved such that the cars were 10 to 100 times quicker than they are today, and that they were a nearly invisible blur as they circulated the track without hardly any sound, vibration or any human being on board, and never a wreck or accident. So fast you couldn't see a thing and had to trust the electronic scoreboard to say what bolide was leading or had won. Would that be a satisfying experience in which to invest your time, money and passions?

 

[Touring Mars]

When was the last time a team won the WDC with an engine by a manufacturer who also had a works team in the hunt?

I noticed that Renault sold their stake in their team in 2010, just as Red Bull took over and won with a Renault engine... so despite there being a Renault team in F1, was it a 'works' team like Ferrari or the current Mercedes team?

The reason I ask is because McLaren justified the decision to go with Honda on the basis that using a Mercedes engine against a Mercedes works team was not going to work - but it seems to be going from bad to worse for McLaren-Honda. If the reports that they are considering using a Mercedes customer engine are true, then McLaren must be in dire straits indeed...