2017 F1 Constructor technical info/developmentFormula 1

[EngieDiesel]

As well as another user bringing up Surtees, and what's interesting is that in both cases. There has been a massive safety evolution before the Halo came about that changed the landscape to make sure those incidents don't happen. As you've said and put quite well, I think the Halo is intended to be a last resort but also PR so the FIA can say, "we're doing something and being 'innovative' "

And of course so they can claim that they "listened to the fans" when the inevitable replacement comes along. And you know they will.

You know what, I think after reading some more into it and talking with others, I've changed my mind on Halo and I'm actually now in favour of it, to some extent, though I still think that this is almost literally one stage before they simply put a screen in front of the Halo structure.

I still feel like the visor/shield is going to be the eventual result, but only after there's been enough time to properly incorporate it into each car's design and likely adjust it for the individual drivers to address any problems with visibility, glare and especially view distortion at high speeds, which I'm guessing is what made Vettel feel dizzy with the test prototype.

 

[baldgye]

And of course so they can claim that they "listened to the fans" when the inevitable replacement comes along. And you know they will.


I still feel like the visor/shield is going to be the eventual result, but only after there's been enough time to properly incorporate it into each car's design and likely adjust it for the individual drivers to address any problems with visibility, glare and especially view distortion at high speeds, which I'm guessing is what made Vettel feel dizzy with the test prototype.

Yeah, I feel like in a few years F1 cars will kinda look like the old open top LMP2 cars, using the halo as a window frame sort of thing

 

[TheElbows]

I'll be honest, if the racing was better, the entire concept of "open wheel" racing is of little benefit to me. If F1 wanted to switch over to crazy hybrid LMP1's, etc...sure, go nuts.

 

[aarror]

Will Buxton has eloquently presented all of my problems with the halo. http://www.racer.com/more/viewpoints/item/142478-buxton-halo-goodbye?showall=&limitstart=
I don't have anything to add really, he sums it up perfectly.

ever since the FIA first latched onto the concept, no other has genuinely been given a chance to prove itself. The governing body pinned its colors to the mast in the very earliest iterations of Halo, and since then no other idea has had a look in. All other notions had been taken off the table by the FIA. It didn't matter that the concept provided only a nominal improvement in safety, nor that full screens might have been possible with time, resource and research. As far as the FIA was concerned, Halo was the only option.

The article also contains an interesting point on Red Bull's aeroscreen concept:

Red Bull's "Aeroscreen" was one option, but the angle and size of the screen was so extreme as to cause tremendous aero headaches that might have necessitated the return of high airboxes not witnessed since the 70s.

So while that may have been better looking than the halo itself, the resulting changes to the car for aero reasons would likely have given us an end result just as ugly.

 

[shoemaker]

This halo subject is really irritating me now, just let the drivers choose if they want to run it. It should be their decision !

 

[EngieDiesel]

This halo subject is really irritating me now, just let the drivers choose if they want to run it. It should be their decision !

Making safety devices optional sets a very dangerous legal precedent. If someone not using it gets injured or killed somehow, then the FIA comes under fire for not making them compulsory and both they and the team that driver was with could be open to a whole slew of expensive and media-unfriendly lawsuits.

And given the option, probably every driver will just opt to go without it for a myriad of reasons (the car will be lighter without it, accidents don't happen to me, a hot dog wrapper might get stuck on the front of it and leave me blinded, and so on), thus the purpose of introducing the halo is rendered absolutely pointless.

 

[Jimlaad43]

I can almost guarantee that when we see a halo in a 2018 car, it'll look different and the teams will have sculpted it to produce copious amounts of downforce. It's just another area where they can go bonkers like the T-Wing.

 

[AudiMan2011]

I still maintain that a solution other than the ugly Halo or the aero-compromising Shield screen would be to go full closed cockpit like the Red Bull X2010. That way elegance and safety can be maintained, without too many compromises.

 

[mustafur]

It's not possible, how is the driver going to be able to get out in a roll.

The shield would be better Aero wise then what we have now though.

 

[BrainsBush]

Posted by Giedo van der Garde

 

[Pete05]

It's not possible, how is the driver going to be able to get out in a roll.

The shield would be better Aero wise then what we have now though.

You know, I'm trying to think of the last time a F1 car rolled and, the driver was able to get out of the car before the trackside Marshalls were there?

 

[TenEightyOne]

I still maintain that a solution other than the ugly Halo or the aero-compromising Shield screen would be to go full closed cockpit like the Red Bull X2010. That way elegance and safety can be maintained, without too many compromises.

Doesn't work in the real world when the car's inverted in some tyres, doesn't maintain the open-cockpit open-wheel formula that is F1.

 

[baldgye]

Will Buxton has eloquently presented all of my problems with the halo. http://www.racer.com/more/viewpoints/item/142478-buxton-halo-goodbye?showall=&limitstart=
I don't have anything to add really, he sums it up perfectly.


The article also contains an interesting point on Red Bull's aeroscreen concept: So while that may have been better looking than the halo itself, the resulting changes to the car for aero reasons would likely have given us an end result just as ugly.

I came here to link this haha!


Yeah Will managed t o articulate a lot of the problems I have/had with it, however I don't think it's quite as bad and am mildly looking forward to the development the teams do with them for aero devices. We saw it in the early 2000's with random wings on noses and I don't think when we look back the Halo will be too different

You know, I'm trying to think of the last time a F1 car rolled and, the driver was able to get out of the car before the trackside Marshalls were there?

Alonso in Australia 2016*

Doesn't work in the real world when the car's inverted in some tyres, doesn't maintain the open-cockpit open-wheel formula that is F1.

F1 is open-wheel racing, open cockpit is just something that's carried over

 

[TenEightyOne]

F1 is open-wheel racing, open cockpit is just something that's carried over

By that logic so is the open-wheel aspect.

 

[Pete05]

Alonso in Australia 2016*

👍

 

[mustafur]

Alonso in Australia 2016*



F1 is open-wheel racing, open cockpit is just something that's carried over

technically it hasn't always been even if it was only for a couple of races.

 

[baldgye]

By that logic so is the open-wheel aspect.

technically it hasn't always been even if it was only for a couple of races.

haha fair points, but my opinion though

It's hard to articulate, but I feel like open wheel is more of what makes F1 F1, than say open cockpit and the renders of the 'future of F1' cars that Red Bull, McLaren (and one other I forget) all have the fighter pilot cannopy and that looks and feels like the future.

Sebs Ferrari with the screen looked honestly fantastic, if that concept is something that can actually come to pass I'll be fully behind it.

 

[aarror]

I can almost guarantee that when we see a halo in a 2018 car, it'll look different and the teams will have sculpted it to produce copious amounts of downforce. It's just another area where they can go bonkers like the T-Wing.

There's no way the FIA let the teams run wild on a safety device. It'll be a standard part that all teams have to use. I hope that they consult the teams on the final design, but given how they've conducted themselves so far I'd say that's doubtful.

 

[Jimlaad43]

If the teams paint them properly so they work with the livery, rather than the carbon black, they might look OK. They should also make the teams distinguish them between cars like the T-cams, but largely.

 

[DesertPenguin09]

technically it hasn't always been even if it was only for a couple of races.

When did this happen? What is going on?!

 

[catamount39]

When did this happen? What is going on?!

One of the "streamliners" that F1 saw in the 50's before it was technically F1. Because teams realized it was more aerodynamic to cover the wheels and the regs were basically open to anything.

 

[DesertPenguin09]

Do you know the exact name or year it existed? I want to do some light reading as I enjoy history.

 

[Michelin Man]

Do you know the exact name or year it existed? I want to do some light reading as I enjoy history.

It was the W196, wearing it's Type Monza streamlined bodywork. Competed from 1954 (where it debuted at the '54 French GP right ?) to 1955, when it's last race was of course the tragic accident at Le Mans. Was Merc's last works GP car until they returned in 2010 with the W01.

 

[TenEightyOne]

One of the "streamliners" that F1 saw in the 50's before it was technically F1. Because teams realized it was more aerodynamic to cover the wheels and the regs were basically open to anything.

It was still F1 as the car met the Formula 1 rules in the three Formula 1 races where it competed with that body. Only this year is "technically F1" if you look at it that way.

 

[daan]

I'm pretty sure the halo, if it comes to be, will be aerodynamically neutral like suspension components have to be.

 

[baldgye]

I'm pretty sure the halo, if it comes to be, will be aerodynamically neutral like suspension components have to be.

Pretty sure I've read that (either on the BBC site or on Will Buxton's post about it) that the teams have a core shape they can't change, but have 30mil either side of the top hoop section of the Halo to develop winglets etc for

 

[IforceV8]

Counterpoint, it is better than nothing or wrapping the drivers head in bubblewrap is their position. http://www.fia.com/news/f1-why-halo-best-solution

Tinfoil hat time.

After static testing, the Shield system was given a short track test at the 2017 British Grand Prix, with the device fitted to the Ferrari of Sebastian Vettel. Feedback from this test concerned a number of limitations around such a system.

The same person that just faced potential race ban after Baku helps support their desire to use the halo over a screen.💡

 

[EngieDiesel]

Honda is saying that the reason their engines have been so unreliable this year is due to conditions that didn't become apparent until the engine was in the car and on the track.

I can understand that a car sitting on a dyno is not going to produce the same kind of vibrations and G-forces as actual racing conditions. That said, the way the explanation was worded it almost sounds like Hasagawa's trying to point a finger back at McLaren and say "See, they're partly to blame too". Especially since this doesn't seem to be a problem for anyone else on the grid this year...

 

[TheElbows]

So Honda is back pedaling? They stated that they elected to build a single cylinder independently of the rest of the motor and then when combined into the V6 it producing unexpected problems (i.e. they tried to shortcut an engine design and got caught out). Simply put it's beyond unacceptable for a company like Honda to mess up this big - and even worse for them to be not be able to fix it.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Honda is saying that the reason their engines have been so unreliable this year is due to conditions that didn't become apparent until the engine was in the car and on the track.

I can understand that a car sitting on a dyno is not going to produce the same kind of vibrations and G-forces as actual racing conditions. That said, the way the explanation was worded it almost sounds like Hasagawa's trying to point a finger back at McLaren and say "See, they're partly to blame too". Especially since this doesn't seem to be a problem for anyone else on the grid this year...

Except Mercedes, obviously. It's cost them two front row places out of the last two races.