2017 Formula 1 Azerbaijan Grand PrixFormula 1

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

When Alonso had his testing accident, I remember reading about the headrests. The FIA mandates three different densities of energy-absorbing foam, nominating the mandatory variety. It was theorised (though never confirmed) that Alonso sustained his injury because he used the wrong headrest. So you might find it extreme, but the FIA take it seriously.

You're not the FIA. The story or narrative you tried to illustrate by the stewards deciding to call in Lewis moment after calling in Vettel, would have ran a high potential of risking his life. If that's the case then surely you should be arguing that first signs of the issue should have got him called in. Rather they allowed the team to attempt several laps with Lewis in the car trying to self fix the situation. But yes it's quite the serious situation.

He didn't question it. He offered the opinion that Vettel's penalty was too lenient. But he had no idea what Vettel was thinking or doing at the time, so how could he reasonably say that Vettel was deserving of a particular penalty?

In some areas of the world that's called questioning, which is usually due to disagreeing with a certain situation. Also stop seriously, it's old. Vettel took full blame, and thus his actions had intent, so stop with this parade because it's done. All current and further discussion I partake in, is the image of the sport from a disciplinary one in future races.

 

[TenEightyOne]

But he had no idea what Vettel was thinking or doing at the time, so how could he reasonably say that Vettel was deserving of a particular penalty?

I'm guessing Hamilton's comments were from watching it on TV like the rest of us. Imagine how much of a view he'd have had if he'd been alongside!

 

[TRGTspecialist]

Those saying Vettel has not been punished are probably forgetting he was already punished by a 10 second stop go and 3 penalty points on his license.

Instagram posts aside I think pretty much everyone here hasn't been arguing that he hasn't been punished, but that he hasn't been punished enough.

(Not referring to you here) I'm fine - just - with people disagreeing/making reasonable arguments against greater punishment being warranted, but the fact that quite a few in this thread don't seem to understand at all why others might want to make a fuss over a driver losing control of his emotions on a race track so much that he aims his car at another car, kinda leaves me gobsmacked.

a retrospective disqualification from the Azerbaijan results would overrule (and therefore diminish) the actions of the stewards.

As they are perfectly entitled to do through the International Tribunial. The stewards are not the final authority.

but he is honest

I don't see how doing something awful can become a plus point if it's done 'honestly'.

Incidentally, his post-race interviews were pretty much the polar opposite of honest.........

showing emotions like anyone of us will do in some of those situations.

But he didn't just show emotion - he acted on it. And in that respect you definitely don't speak for 'anyone' - I've only ever been on a kart track but I never got so angry I felt the need to drive into someone else. I never saw anyone else do that either.

Funny enough if one of us had done that - especially under yellow flag/pace kart conditions - I believe we would've been immediately parked. Though in fairness, we had multiple world championships between us, as well as millions of people who looked up to us and watched our every move, so you can understand why the organisers might want to set a strict but appropriate example. Oh, wait.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Rather they allowed the team to attempt several laps with Lewis in the car trying to self fix the situation.

I'm pretty sure the pins go into the sides of the headrest, not the back. In the event of a suspected spinal injury, a pin in the back of the headrest would require marshalls to move a driver's head, which is incredibly dangerous. But if the pins are only in the sides, a headrest could be removed without moving a driver's head and allowing marshalls to extract a driver. So I can only imagine that the stewards wanted to give Hamilton the chance to fix the headrest himself and only called him in when he couldn't do it.

In the same way, the stewards had to fully investigate Vettel's contact with Hamilton before issuing a penalty. I'm pretty sure they have access to footage and telemetry that isn't broadcast on the world feed and that they like to review all available evidence before making a decision. I get that people are upset that Vettel took a penalty and suffered no loss relative to Hamilton, but that's because of Mercedes' mistake. Vettel cannot be penalised for it. Even if Vettel had taken his penalty first, we would likely be in the same situation as we are now because Ferrari would have informed him of Hamilton's penalty and told him the lap times he needed to put in to come out ahead of Hamilton.

I'm guessing Hamilton's comments were from watching it on TV like the rest of us.

When Vettel was penalised, Hamilton got on the radio and sent a message addressed to Charlie Whiting that he didn't think the penalty was harsh enough. I think that's a bit iffy because Hamilton had a vested interest in seeing Vettel take the harshest penalty. That's the same as letting football players decide whether or not a penalty kick should be awarded.

Imagine how much of a view he'd have had if he'd been alongside!

Ironically, he wouldn't have been able to see anything. The HANS device severely limits a driver's ability to turn their head. Even if Hamilton could turn his head, all he would be able to see is his own headrest because the sides are so high.

 

[Pezzarinho17]

Regarding the pins, it is both and they are different types. The pins by their usual definition you are referring to are the ones either side of the driver which you see them taking out as they get out of the cars. The ones at the back however are for locating the rear part of the headrest in the car. without these, it would pivot about the front pins (as we saw in Baku). they are just simple slide locking pins.

 

[lancia delta hf]

I see many fickle minds, "F1 needs this drama" or "F1 has been boring for year and hasn't had this drama"

Like really? Nico v. Hamilton pass 3 years could make a sizable book, Max Verstappen dramas of last year, Kvyat being shifted from his team, Ricciardo struggles last year. The surprising and unexpected retirement of the 2016 WDC a few days after winning the title. The illegal tire test and fall out Mercedes did under Brawn, the switch of Lewis to Mercedes, the switch with Alonso back to McLaren, McLaren and their Honda woes. RBR and their woes with Renault and ultimately staying with Renault but branding the engine something else. Ricciardo beating Vettel the 4 WDC in his first year at RBR. Sebs switch to Ferrari and the Schumacher parallels made. I could go on and on but this is just stuff from the last 3-4 years in very simplified expression. I don't know what type of drama people are looking for, Kardashian style, cause if so then go watch NASCAR and their WWE gimmicks but there is plenty of drama and passion in F1 and has been.

Also is this not drama enough, the most controversial and untalked about wreck of the weekend.

Nothing fickle about it, I've been watching F1since I was in nappies, that's a little over 30 years. It has been utterly boring for years with drivers who have zero charisma. Lewis is one of the famous F1 guys and very unlikable and comes across disingenuous. He has got to be the most unlike British driver in his own country I have witnessed.

Those other incidents you talk off were not interesting or dramatic enough to garner attention outside of those who already follow F1. The coverage in the U.K. isn't that great on terrestrial TV anymore and F1 is losing interest year upon year. They need to get people interested and to do that people need to care about the drivers.

Out of all my friends who watch or use to watch F1 do not care for Hamilton in the slightest, they think he is a dick. Which is F1 needs more drivers to be trending thanks to drama, the youth of today are more familiar with talentless celebrity wannabes on crap like Towie and Geordie shore. F1 will struggle to survive the costs over the next 20 years if more than one driver isn't a house hold name.

 

[Nessy]

@lancia delta hf

I'd argue that Lewis comes across as being very likeable (and popular) and also very genuine.

Out of all my friends that watch F1, they think he's the greatest thing to happen to F1 in a long time.

 

[DesertPenguin09]

By genuine to you mean being very transparent with all his social media crap?

 

[Nessy]

I don't watch or read any social media crap.

Do you?

 

[TenEightyOne]

By genuine to you mean being very transparent with all his social media crap?

Sportsmen/women have always partied, nowadays they use social media too. So what?

 

[baldgye]

It's one of the best chassis on the grid, PU is horrible though. Hopefully Honda make a decent step in performance and reliability for at least the final part of the season so McLaren can start scoring points regularly. Probably the worst chassis they had in the hybrid era was the 2014 one yet they scored the most points with it, what a difference a good PU makes... Since getting Prodromou back, they've become again a decent F1 chassis maker which is good to see.

Looking at his junior career, makes me doubt him more if he has the ability to do well in F1 and have a long career in it. He seems to be able to beat the drivers who won't make it as a F1 driver but has got defeated by younger drivers than him who made it into F1 like Kvyat, Sainz and Magnussen. Remember you have an issue with how long Palmer took to win GP2, considering Vandoorne won it at a similar age to him and got beaten by Palmer the season before and won it against similar level drivers if not weaker grid thanks to Palmer and Nasr not being there, why do you rate him so highly? Similarly they're both quite a bit off there teammates, not surprised he is struggling so far going by his "excellent" junior career.

Magnussen made his debut in 2014 F1 season after beating Vandoorne in a junior category the year before and he outqualified Alonso and Button, and finished second in his first F1 race ahead of them. On that basis I think Magnussen is more talented than Vandoorne and given it was a bit of a struggle for him to get back into F1, I don't see Vandoorne in F1 for long at the moment.

Probably the most overrated driver in F1, he is quite a bit older than some of the established younger F1 drivers. If he was better than Verstappen, I think he would have been in F1 much sooner and also look more competitive relative to his teammate and more positive impressions like how Verstappen had after his second F1 qualifying, not get beaten comprehensively by Alonso but also got beaten by Giovinazzi in a Sauber and get told he needs to change his driving style...

I would rate Maldanado as a quicker F1 driver than Vandoorne for the moment, he is out of F1 and brings decent money to team so I think Vandoorne will have a short career in F1 unless he massively improves.

Probably toughest year for rookie drivers, Stroll should have most room for improvement given his age, car experience and how far he has been off the pace so far, however I don't think he has the potential to be a quick F1 driver from what I've seen so far.

To be fair, Vandoorne probably would have been in F1 sooner had McLaren not messed him about

Nothing fickle about it, I've been watching F1since I was in nappies, that's a little over 30 years. It has been utterly boring for years with drivers who have zero charisma. Lewis is one of the famous F1 guys and very unlikable and comes across disingenuous. He has got to be the most unlike British driver in his own country I have witnessed.

Those other incidents you talk off were not interesting or dramatic enough to garner attention outside of those who already follow F1. The coverage in the U.K. isn't that great on terrestrial TV anymore and F1 is losing interest year upon year. They need to get people interested and to do that people need to care about the drivers.

Out of all my friends who watch or use to watch F1 do not care for Hamilton in the slightest, they think he is a dick. Which is F1 needs more drivers to be trending thanks to drama, the youth of today are more familiar with talentless celebrity wannabes on crap like Towie and Geordie shore. F1 will struggle to survive the costs over the next 20 years if more than one driver isn't a house hold name.

I don't really see much point in the debate about how likeable someone is or not, but to say F1 has been boring for years is pretty silly.


While the Schumy domination years did get a bit tedious, his battles with Mika where epic and Mika was a real character.
Then you have the rise of Alonso, again like him or not he is a mega talent and produced some amazing racing, along with the antics with Schumy.
Then just as Alonso grabs his second title, a rookie child appears, gets into fastest car and then gets very close to beating a double world champion to win the 07' title. The following year he manages it and then the year after you have the dream story of Braun.

After that you have the 2010/12 seasons which where pretty amazing, you had drama a three/four way title fight at different points of the season... then the Lewis v Nico scrap!


F1 has been great for the last 20+ years imo


Edit: that quoted a bit strange, I only typed the bottom paragraphs

 

[VolkswagenX]

AUS 2009 was a DQ

I asked because people make it seem the FIA is always ruling in favour of Vettel/Ferrari and always against Hamilton. I don't see it.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I asked because people make it seem the FIA is always ruling in favour of Vettel/Ferrari and always against Hamilton. I don't see it.

I don't see how anyone could argue this, in reality the FIA has always been pretty impartial about distributing punishment, the severity has been the issue. People link Ferrari and the FIA together because of Todt and because of a history of Ferrari getting somewhat what they want due to being the original F1 team.

Nothing fickle about it, I've been watching F1since I was in nappies, that's a little over 30 years. It has been utterly boring for years with drivers who have zero charisma. Lewis is one of the famous F1 guys and very unlikable and comes across disingenuous. He has got to be the most unlike British driver in his own country I have witnessed.

Those other incidents you talk off were not interesting or dramatic enough to garner attention outside of those who already follow F1. The coverage in the U.K. isn't that great on terrestrial TV anymore and F1 is losing interest year upon year. They need to get people interested and to do that people need to care about the drivers.

Out of all my friends who watch or use to watch F1 do not care for Hamilton in the slightest, they think he is a dick. Which is F1 needs more drivers to be trending thanks to drama, the youth of today are more familiar with talentless celebrity wannabes on crap like Towie and Geordie shore. F1 will struggle to survive the costs over the next 20 years if more than one driver isn't a house hold name.

I don't see an issue (as others have stated) in Hamilton's outside life from F1, people have tried to use it against him in various occasions, and it seems to be somewhat of a justification (not sure how) used to pardon Vettel's actions at Baku by a vocal minority. None of this has to do with the "drama" of F1. If you bothered to read what I wrote, you'd see beyond the single line you ran with and wrote your post about. I've given many examples of drama in the past 4 years alone. You want to talk about the last 20-22 that I've watched and then it's hilarious to claim it's "boring".

 

[TenEightyOne]

I've been watching F1since I was in nappies, that's a little over 30 years. It has been utterly boring for years with drivers who have zero charisma.

So why bother?

 

[Dhalism]

I asked because people make it seem the FIA is always ruling in favour of Vettel/Ferrari and always against Hamilton. I don't see it.

Ham did get a fair bit of reprimands in the beginning of his career, resulting in the famed "it's cause i'm black" line. That being said he was not always innocent.

Ferrari's favoritism seemed to have ended when Todt became the boss of all bosses, i guess the job was important enough for him to become impartial. Although Ferrari's legacy payouts are still as ridiculous as ever.

p.s. not a rebuttal to what youre saying, just my thoughts on the matter

 

[Disco_Volante]

Vettel has admitted he crashed onto Hamilton deliberately. He said "it was the wrong move to drive alongside Hamilton and touch his tires.

I truly hope no one claims Vettel wasn't at fault anymore.

 

[UnkaD]

I hate that everyone pretty much ignored Magnussen to beat this dead horse.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I hate that everyone pretty much ignored Magnussen to beat this dead horse.

It was the first public verbal statement from either driver since the incident. There were different views of what had happened from the fans and this conference laid the facts out clearly. Isn't that the purpose of them?

 

[prisonermonkeys]

And why only Magnussen? Don't press conferences usually have five drivers? Or has the format changed?

 

[mustafur]

And why only Magnussen? Don't press conferences usually have five drivers? Or has the format changed?

It was 3 x 2 for this one, splitting it up.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

It was 3 x 2 for this one, splitting it up.

This came up in the Austria thread as well. Someone else was pointing to Magnussen's presence in the press conference alongside Vettel and Hamilton as if it was significant, and I cannot for the life of me figure out why.

 

[mustafur]

This came up in the Austria thread as well. Someone else was pointing to Magnussen's presence in the press conference alongside Vettel and Hamilton as if it was significant, and I cannot for the life of me figure out why.

It's really not, however this layout is significantly better, there was alot more questions aimed at 1 driver then everyone having some vague input.

 

[Simmpa]

Sebastian Vettel says he´s sorry