- 24,612
- Anoka, MN
It's ESPN, so don't get your hopes up. I can already see them doing halfway breaks for a Sportscenter(or whatever they call it now) clip, especially at the beginning and end of the season when there is also basketball and football.
2017 Formula 1 Gran Premio de MexicoFormula 1
- Thread starter TenEightyOne
- 260 comments
- 14,644 views
It's ESPN, so don't get your hopes up. I can already see them doing halfway breaks for a Sportscenter(or whatever they call it now) clip, especially at the beginning and end of the season when there is also basketball and football.
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
I know. It's easy to forget that they're setting new lap records that way at every race, producing nearly 1000bhp from a 1.6 litre hybrid using an amazingly small fuel flow allowance. Where's the technological progress in that? Pfft.
Besides, whatever the formula, engine allowance and so on... teams will always need to tactically reign in performance in one way or another. If the engines were fully bulletproof it would be fuel, if fuel wasn't an issue it would be tyres and so on. That's what happens at the limit when you push it for two hundred miles in a tactical race.
- 86,539
- Rule 12
- GTP_Famine
Poles and race wins increase because there's more races. 1950 had six races, 1990 had sixteen and 2017 will have had twenty.
Championships are harder now for the same reason and reliability reasons. Sure, your car will reach the end of the race 80% of the time (2017 finish rate is 81%), but so will everyone else's. Championships used to be decided by the most reliable car (some might say 2016 was), with the odd win or podium being the difference between 1st and 6th. Now it's not enough to be fast when the car works and make hay when your opponent's doesn't, but to be fast all the time.
Hamilton has driven more than 3,200 miles to win so far this year. Fangio drove about 1,600 miles to win in 1955. Senna drove about 3,000 to win in 1991.
- 9,741
- Las Vegas UTC-8
- Wardez
- Wardez
Man that VSC really came at the wrong time for FI. Was hoping for them to provide more of a fight for Ferrari. Although Ferrari would've probably finished on the podium anyway, it didn't have to be quite that smooth.
Max really put in an awesome race, my driver of the day. I wonder how things would've panned out had the race allowed for Lewis to chase Max. This high altitude really showed some weakness in the Renault PUs, must've made McLaren nervous. I guess their PUs just haven't coped well with close to a full season of stress.
Loved seeing an Alonso vs Lewis fight. My favorite part of the race by far. I feel that Alonso's attitude always made things worse for him through his career. His exit from Ferrari was right at the time because he was just not enjoying life there at all. I'm sure his stubbornness played a part in that divorce, but things just weren't looking well on a organizational level either.
What if Alonso was in the Ferrari this year? What a fight that would've been. Maybe the small show of sparks we saw between this two giants of the sport was a preview of what could have been an amazing duel for the ages. Had Alonso stayed...
Max really put in an awesome race, my driver of the day. I wonder how things would've panned out had the race allowed for Lewis to chase Max. This high altitude really showed some weakness in the Renault PUs, must've made McLaren nervous. I guess their PUs just haven't coped well with close to a full season of stress.
Loved seeing an Alonso vs Lewis fight. My favorite part of the race by far. I feel that Alonso's attitude always made things worse for him through his career. His exit from Ferrari was right at the time because he was just not enjoying life there at all. I'm sure his stubbornness played a part in that divorce, but things just weren't looking well on a organizational level either.
What if Alonso was in the Ferrari this year? What a fight that would've been. Maybe the small show of sparks we saw between this two giants of the sport was a preview of what could have been an amazing duel for the ages. Had Alonso stayed...
- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
Because they're good, because they had a history of being good and great, before said cars were given to them. And even when they were challenged by others they beat them. Also even when there was a car that was competitive to the Schumi Ferrari, he still was able to beat them most Saturdays than not and set up for Sunday wins. Senna while questionable at times, more than not won because of being just better in the car than those around him, he didn't try to push anyone off at Donnington in 93 in a weaker car than some in front of him. There are questionable moments for sure in many WDCs careers, but that shouldn't be the thing that overshadows their entire history. In fact when you bring up certain things it should really be looked at in the season it was done, and that season and their motives then should be questioned.
If I said that the traction control issue of 94 or the 99 barge board illegality or 01 traction control illegality, those would simply be issues of that season and stretch beyond Shumacher and shouldn't take away the fact he was the best or one of the best during his time in F1.
- 9,262
- Corsham
- lipming
The BBC seem to be convinced that Hamilton's going to win the next three championships. This wasn't exactly a dominant victory, it was handed to him on a plate.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/41696360
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/41696360
- 9,741
- Las Vegas UTC-8
- Wardez
- Wardez
Well Vettel handed it to him, yeah. It would've been a close fight without his head scratching moments.
I agree though, British press tends to sensationalize their athletes just so they can tear them down when they don't do well.
Next year is gonna be a tough fight for Merc! They're already on the back foot having gone for their long wheelbase concept.
Mexico sealed the fact that RBR are well and truly in the fight. It's gonna come down to Renault's PU going the distance for them.
I love Lewis to death though, so happy he clinched it in Mexico. Wish I was there. That rotating DJ booth behind the podium was straight out of Austin Powers.
- 5,400
- Alabamistan
Get ready for a ticker running along the bottom of the screen with last night's scores and who you should start in fantasy football. I'm going to miss NBC.
- 5,619
- Hampshire
- Spurgy777
@Jimlaad43 I don't know about @Betty blue being a "hateboy" but you're definitely making yourself sound like a childish fanboy.
As I'll get into, they're not facts, actually some of the things you say are factually wrong and you backtrack on them later, but most importantly you saying they're facts doesn't make them facts.
I know you've already back tracked on this, but as has been stated, Vettel was overtaking plenty of people, even with Mercedes engines. It's also worth noting that whether other people were overtaking is largely unimportant, as only Hamilton and Vettel were out of place, meaning they were racing people who were significantly slower than them, everyone else was surrounded by similarly paced drivers, but even then there were a few overtakes through the rest of the field.
Do you have any evidence that his car had lost performance due to a damaged floor? Or are you just asserting it as an excuse for why Hamilton struggled to get through the field? Yes its possible he did but I never heard him or his engineer mention it over the radio, in fact the main reason he was struggling to get by is that his car was overheating when he got close to other cars, something Hamilton did talk about over the radio.
Now I've said before that the Mercedes seems to struggle following cars more than the Ferrari, which could explain why Vettel found it much easier, but then Hamilton also has the fastest engine on the grid, so it could be argued that he should be able to get past cars more easily without having to get near them for too long.
Very mature, well done.
I might not be remembering this right, but didn't they both switch to Softs after the first lap? So they were on the same tyres. Then on the VSC Vettel went to Ultras and Hamilton to Supers.
Other than that I'm not sure what your point is here, that Hamilton struggled to overtake because he started 25 seconds behind Vettel? That doesn't make any sense, you would expect if he started that far back he should finish that far back if they were overtaking at the same rate. In reality Hamilton ended up about a minute behind Vettel because he was struggling so much to overtake.
"Facts".
Hmm, bragging because you think you've won an argument, another very mature thing to do. 👍
As I'll get into, they're not facts, actually some of the things you say are factually wrong and you backtrack on them later, but most importantly you saying they're facts doesn't make them facts.
I know you've already back tracked on this, but as has been stated, Vettel was overtaking plenty of people, even with Mercedes engines. It's also worth noting that whether other people were overtaking is largely unimportant, as only Hamilton and Vettel were out of place, meaning they were racing people who were significantly slower than them, everyone else was surrounded by similarly paced drivers, but even then there were a few overtakes through the rest of the field.
Do you have any evidence that his car had lost performance due to a damaged floor? Or are you just asserting it as an excuse for why Hamilton struggled to get through the field? Yes its possible he did but I never heard him or his engineer mention it over the radio, in fact the main reason he was struggling to get by is that his car was overheating when he got close to other cars, something Hamilton did talk about over the radio.
Now I've said before that the Mercedes seems to struggle following cars more than the Ferrari, which could explain why Vettel found it much easier, but then Hamilton also has the fastest engine on the grid, so it could be argued that he should be able to get past cars more easily without having to get near them for too long.
Very mature, well done.
I might not be remembering this right, but didn't they both switch to Softs after the first lap? So they were on the same tyres. Then on the VSC Vettel went to Ultras and Hamilton to Supers.
Other than that I'm not sure what your point is here, that Hamilton struggled to overtake because he started 25 seconds behind Vettel? That doesn't make any sense, you would expect if he started that far back he should finish that far back if they were overtaking at the same rate. In reality Hamilton ended up about a minute behind Vettel because he was struggling so much to overtake.
"Facts".
Hmm, bragging because you think you've won an argument, another very mature thing to do. 👍
- 22,551
- Arizona
- HamiltonMP427
I'm probably as big of a fan of Hamilton or bigger than most, but the fact that some will cling to or go out of their way to diminish is asinine. I said it plenty of times when PM (now ghost of) would do it. And I think it should be said again here, you really don't need to diminish or belittle others because of them not liking or saying something incorrect about a driver you perhaps are a fan of.
The last comment really is without substance.
- 34
- United States
In retrospect I think he might’ve been a little more cautious. He did leave Vettel more than enough room though. Don’t think it was necessarily on purpose though.
- 3,802
- 3,600
- Middelburg
I think especially during the great battle between Hamilton and Alonso, Lewis spoke with his racers heart and for a couple fo seconds he forgot to be more cautious.
- 16,037
- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
- 3,600
- Middelburg
Isn't it stange in some way that a couple of weeks ago Ricciardo was on the podium and Verstappen had to deal with a lot of bad luck and now for the last weeks it is 180 degrees the opposite. Lessonlearned for RedBull: what if they did better winter testing. For next season they already confirmed that the e.g. the wind tunnel data will be better 'translated' to the live track tests. Yes the other teams will also improve? We'll find out next season.
I think that F1 changed around the early 80s (or 70s not 100%) similar to how Rugby went from an amateur sport to a professional one in the mid 90's.
To comparing the likes of Fangio to the insane athletes that are modern F1 drivers isn't really meaningful.
I think this season was important however, because it was the first time that Vettel had to battle someone who was his driving equal (or better). The result of which was him totally cracking while Lewis stepped up.
As a Lewis fan though, I couldn't be happier, this season Lewis has been the best by far and I can't wait for 2018 with a faster Red Bull, a better balanced Merc, Ferrari fighting back and return of McLaren!
- 204
- Johannesburg,South Africa
- Xx_REDRUM_xX
True, and many times anyone with Bridgetones were at a complete disadvantage compared to cars with Michelins...such as cooler or damp conditions. And even in these conditions Schumacher performed at a supremely high level.
Ah please...sure Schumacher did some crazy things so did Senna. So did Hamilton...they all do it because the will to win is just so great. And Schumacher only had the clear cut best car remotely comparable to Mercedes' dominance in 2002 and 2004...and imo only 2004 did they have a car that was as dominant as the Mercedes of 2014-2016. In 2000 and 2001 the Mclaren was regarded faster but had reliability issues. 2003 they had the weaker tyre compound and were on par with Williams' and Mclaren's pace.
And in 97 the Williams was clearly the best car, yet Schumacher lost the championship in the last race. 98 McLaren had a car whose dominance is comparable to 02 Ferrari at least...yet Schumacher lost the championship in the last race. He outperformed his car on so many occasions that anyone denying his greatness are either butt-hurt Hill fans or didn't see him actual race back in his prime.
Schumacher isn't the best in my opinion because of the amount of championships or race wins. The stuff he did in some races were out of this world. With an far inferior car in 96 lapped seconds faster than the competition in rain at Spain. 2nd place with a car stuck in 5th gear for more than half the race etc. etc. There are so many examples.
He had so many insane good drives and pulled of miracles at times. His best years in my opinion was 96-98...and he didn't win a championship then. But the stuff he did was pure genius.
He revolutionized the sport. For a man's name becoming synonymous with speed and F1 racing whilst trying to live a complete private life in stark contrast to some toyboy drivers it basically sums it up how special and good he was.
I always find it funny how people refer to Schumacher's teammate letting him through...it happened once at A1 ring in 2002. Later that year Schumacher let Barrichello through at the US grand prix to repay the favor...but no one mentions that. Similar after coming back from a broken leg in 99 at his first race, not competing for the championship having been out for 4 months he played an enormous part giving Irvine the win that day...no one mentions that. And yeah, after 4 months out coming back at a brand new track he got pole by 1 second from 2nd place.
You can hate him as much as you want, he was the complete driver and will always be regarded as one of the best.
Last edited:
- 204
- Johannesburg,South Africa
- Xx_REDRUM_xX
The Spying scandal, the one where Lewis was told to lie (as a rookie) you'd have to be pretty vindictive to pin any blame on Lewis...
Forcing Nico off track, you mean battling for position? That's not dirty, that's racing...
Neither of those two are comparable to deliberately crashing into another driver. I'm not hating on Senna or Schumy, Senna for me, is the greatest driver to have ever lived. But to compare their antics to Lewis battling seems insane lol
- 29,109
- Glasgow
- GTP_Mars
Congratulations to Lewis on a 4th World title 
Yesterday was the first time I heard him speak about the fact that he could have been on 6 WDCs already, and he alluded to the fact that there was some untold story about how he failed to win in 2007, which I'm guessing he's saving for his post-race career autobiography.
It's a pity that the Ferrari challenge crumbled in such spectacular fashion this year, and it is also a shame that Red Bull have been so unreliable - one can only hope that both Ferrari and Red Bull iron out their difficulties and make next season at least a three horse race.
Yesterday was the first time I heard him speak about the fact that he could have been on 6 WDCs already, and he alluded to the fact that there was some untold story about how he failed to win in 2007, which I'm guessing he's saving for his post-race career autobiography.
It's a pity that the Ferrari challenge crumbled in such spectacular fashion this year, and it is also a shame that Red Bull have been so unreliable - one can only hope that both Ferrari and Red Bull iron out their difficulties and make next season at least a three horse race.
- 20,681
- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
No, it was the subject of an FIA enquiry in 2002 but that's far from being the only time it happened. Were you watching F1 back then and in the MSC Ferrari years before that? The only season I can recall where the #2 driver wasn't shuffled/ordered back behind the #1 car was when Schumacher returned after his leg injuries sustained at the Silverstone GP. Schumacher was supposed to help Irvine take the WDC, didn't happen though.
Or two horses, two bulls and two, erm... which animal would Mercedes personify?
Dotini
(Banned)
- 15,742
- Seattle
- CR80_Shifty
Overdog.
- 204
- Johannesburg,South Africa
- Xx_REDRUM_xX
He was part of it, rookie or not, told to or not...he participated in illegal activities behind the scenes and blatantly lied about it.
So you are saying every single season, although it was illegal to do so after the 2002 A1 incident? Lies and you know it...and yes I watched his career right from 94 to when he retired in 06. According to your argument Barrichello shouldn't have any victories when he drove for Ferrari.
How many times this season alone was Bottas ordered to let Hamilton through.
Not going to fight but hell some people just refuse to acknowledge what Schumacher has achieved in the sport.
- 5,619
- Hampshire
- Spurgy777
I don't see how you came to the conclusion that Vettel totally cracked. He's had the slower car for the majority of races this season yet the gap to him and Hamilton can pretty much be entirely attributed to one mistake which was more bad luck than anything else.
Pretty big overstatement, Vettel has done a good job keeping the championship as close as he did for as long as he did with a slower and less reliable car, so I would say it's been mostly equal between the too with Vettel being the better driver in the first half of the season and Hamilton coming back in the second.
Forcing someone off track to gain a position is dirty driving, not that I cared too much when he was doing it to Rosberg because Rosberg did it back and the stewards don't seem to care, but it's dirty driving nonetheless.
