2019 IMSA WeatherTech SportsCar ChampionshipSports Cars

[Northstar]

Turns out, Alonso was in 2nd when he said it wasn't safe.

https://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/alonso-called-for-safety-car-while-running-second/

One thing I forgot to mention earlier: I was quite surprised that they have basically o means of channeling the water away. Not sure whether it would have helped today at all, but there should be some sort of possibility to get rid of some water towards the infield.

Sure, they don’t race on the oval when it rains but they do have the road racing sections, I’d expect some sort of solution in a stadium-like environment like DIS.

Considering the pushback farmers get when trying to install drain tile, I wouldn't be surprised if they tried when they were doing the remodel but the plan got scrapped after environmentalists got involved.

 

[PzR Slim]

Racer just posted an article regarding the driving conditions at Daytona. One of the big things Marshall Pruett posted in it was that Alonso's conversation with the pace car driver occurred after he witnessed the pace car nearly crash at the bus stop. Article below.

https://racer.com/2019/01/27/rolex-drivers-question-decision-to-continue-racing-in-poor-conditions/

I suggest you educate yourself @Nielsen and read the above.

 

[Nielsen]

How does that counter what I said?

It doesn't, but it’s a point that can’t be stressed enough, even when cost reducing measures are being accounted for.

Because if it wasn't for the smaller teams Toyota wouldn't have a title to compete for.

Right, but it doesn't change how cost reductions in LMP1 happened last minute in panic over Porsche leaving earlier than originally thought. Again, Peugeot's departure some years ago didn't inspire a similar reaction.

Are you actively trying to not get people's points?

No. Please explain why low-budget teams matter in this discussion on red-flagging Daytona till the very end? It's not like IMSA competition is challenged by struggles comparable to the LMP1 collapse in WEC.

I’m baffled how pretty much all of you can forgive how the race ended under red flag. The blow dryer trucks were working hard to make it restart, but somehow they made us wait for nothing. If danger really was a legitimate concern due to water, Daytona needs to invest in much better drainage. It may be a historically important event getting some leverage, but IMSA needs to impose certain standards on their host venues. IMSA is currently aiming to expand globally, but ending their biggest annual event under red flag kind of defeats the purpose. This race and the ending in particular was a middle finger to all fans who planned their weekend around this race. I’ve watched many endurance events over the years, but I can’t recall one where race officials enabled such an anti-climatic joke.

I suggest you educate yourself @Nielsen and read the above.

Most race drivers today have adopted the spoiled brat mentality. Nothing new there.

 

[PzR Slim]

Most race drivers today have adopted the spoiled brat mentality. Nothing new there.

And with that you've made it abundantly clear that it's an exercise in futility to discuss this with you any more. You're wrong.

 

[fortbo]

Most race drivers today have adopted the spoiled brat mentality. Nothing new there.

That's it, you've insulted me, Alonso, Vanthoor and just about every other sane driver who races today. Guys, don't give this troll the time of day. He clearly thinks he's some sort of expert on racing in extremely dangerous wet weather conditions when he has most likely never touched a racetrack at speed in his life let alone racing in terrible conditions.

 

[AMPMROCKETFANN]

It was effectively 0 to monsoon during the morning hours. Even if they were designed to take rain, enough to make a boat hull a requirement can't be overcome. Add in fog and spray going up to grandstand heights, they don't make a vehicle that would handle it decently.

At some points on the track cars were literally swimming. The prototypes were pretty much floating out of the bus stop.

I had a feeling it was either this, or lightning/tornado conditions

Look at that visibility and listen how he has to apply the throttle. Yikes.
Not even mentioning the braking.

Oh man, only vehicle that could take this much water is a Group B rally car. Hats off to the drivers for doing what they could

 

[twitcher]

I’m definitely one of those people who prefers old school circuits, I like letting drivers settle things themselves, I don’t like caving it to bad weather...but everything has a limit. The puddles at the bus stop in particular were ridiculous. For any sport that is played outside, there are certain weather conditions where it’s just no longer worth it for anyone involved to play a game, or drive in circles.

Here’s something to think about. The people who are complaining about the race being stopped due to poor weather and poor track conditions - how many of them have been tuning into WRC Rally Monte Carlo this weekend? Or if crazy conditions is your thing, how many watched Dakar?

You want world class drivers tip-toeing around in slippery conditions?


The race got called 2 hours early....so freaking what. If you’re a motorsport fan, there’s Formula E to catch up on, there’s 3 days worth of rallying to watch, plus whatever fan footage you can find of Monte Carlo, there was a TRS race in New Zealand, there’s AMA super cross to watch....and next weekend, we get 12 hours of Bathurst.

 

[MatskiMonk]

This race and the ending in particular was a middle finger to all fans who planned their weekend around this race. I’ve watched many endurance events over the years, but I can’t recall one where race officials enabled such an anti-climatic joke.

I sense you're either overly butt-hurt about the result for some reason, or overly entitled.... which is it?

 

[Silver Arrows]

Most race drivers today have adopted the spoiled brat mentality. Nothing new there.

lol what a surprise. I guess my previous assumption was correct.

 

[Spirit]

@Nielsen, the conditions were too dangerous to continue racing without substantial risk to life and limb. Get over yourself, please. It's simple as that.

 

[Michelin]

I just readed the whole discussion.

I just can't even. I just can't. It's a shame I can't use the meme I want because it has bad language.

 

[fortbo]

I just love how he thinks that drivers not wanting to get seriously injured or die somehow equates to having a spoiled brat mentality. I love to race but I'd rather stop a race early in bad conditions compared to being brought home in a stretcher and potentially having life changing injuries. This is probably someone who thinks racing was so much cooler when drivers would die every other weekend.

 

[MatskiMonk]

I just love how he thinks that drivers not wanting to get seriously injured or die somehow equates to having a spoiled brat mentality. I love to race but I'd rather stop a race early in bad conditions compared to being brought home in a stretcher and potentially having life changing injuries. This is probably someone who thinks racing was so much cooler when drivers would die every other weekend.

M'eh, to me it's a failure in understanding of risk based thinking.

... but what do I know, I'm working all hours and for the first time since Montoya started racing in it, I missed a Rolex 24. I came on to the internet this evening expected to see the two M8's last in class. I'm happy with the result, mostly I'm happy because BMW got to dedicate a win to Charly Lamm.

 

[Nielsen]

Turns out, Alonso was in 2nd when he said it wasn't safe.

https://sportscar365.com/imsa/iwsc/alonso-called-for-safety-car-while-running-second/

He probably didn't imagine the race would end right there.

And with that you've made it abundantly clear that it's an exercise in futility to discuss this with you any more. You're wrong.

How? Race car drivers always question decisions they don't agree with, but truth is they should just do as they're told. Yet we live in a world where Alonso can persuade those in the race control room. It's gone too far.

That's it, you've insulted me, Alonso, Vanthoor and just about every other sane driver who races today. Guys, don't give this troll the time of day. He clearly thinks he's some sort of expert on racing in extremely dangerous wet weather conditions when he has most likely never touched a racetrack at speed in his life let alone racing in terrible conditions.

You have no right to call me a troll. I've done plenty to explain my viewpoint with valid arguments.

I sense you're either overly butt-hurt about the result for some reason, or overly entitled.... which is it?

I'm neutral but the red-flagging simply ruined it.

I just love how he thinks that drivers not wanting to get seriously injured or die somehow equates to having a spoiled brat mentality.

All race car drivers knows there is risk, but these days it's far from life-threatening. Not even when Daytona is soaked in rain. I'm repeating myself now.

 

[fortbo]

You have no right to call me a troll. I've done plenty to explain my viewpoint with valid arguments.

Nope, I do. Calling racecar drivers today spoiled brats is not a valid argument.

 

[Spirit]

Yet we live in a world where Alonso can persuade those in the race control room. It's gone too far.

I believe the Safety Car driver almost eating the wall is what prompted that decision. The red was called before Alonso could even have a chance to peak with them or anyone else from race control.

 

[fortbo]

How? Race car drivers always question decisions they don't agree with, but truth is they should just do as they're told. Yet we live in a world where Alonso can persuade those in the race control room. It's gone too far.

There is so much wrong with this statement. You are saying drivers should have no input on the race that they are in? How is that alright?

 

[McLaren]

I’m baffled how pretty much all of you can forgive how the race ended under red flag.

Because we understand it was done in the name of driver safety?

The blow dryer trucks were working hard to make it restart, but somehow they made us wait for nothing.

Hindsight is 20/20.

If danger really was a legitimate concern due to water, Daytona needs to invest in much better drainage. It may be a historically important event getting some leverage, but IMSA needs to impose certain standards on their host venues. IMSA is currently aiming to expand globally, but ending their biggest annual event under red flag kind of defeats the purpose.

Drainage doesn't solve low visibility, the other risk driver's were taking.

This race and the ending in particular was a middle finger to all fans who planned their weekend around this race. I’ve watched many endurance events over the years, but I can’t recall one where race officials enabled such an anti-climatic joke.

You got over 12 hours of racing to watch this weekend. That's 10x the normal 2 hour or so length most racing events go through.

Most race drivers today have adopted the spoiled brat mentality. Nothing new there.

Can't believe this spoiled brat doesn't want to race. What could he possibly risk racing in heavy rain?

 

[MatskiMonk]

I'm neutral but the red-flagging simply ruined it.

I am sad for you.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Shame to see the race end this way, but that's how it goes sometimes. It's hard enough to drive in torrential rain in Project Cars 2, let alone real life where there is a genuine risk of serious injury or death. To suggest that the drivers are spoilt is a downright ludicrous claim; they can't even see where they're going! They are puddles and standing water which renders the driving surface particularly treacherous - too bad for even the likes of Fernando Alonso for Christ Sake, one of the world's best drivers. I think that says it all.

 

[Nielsen]

Nope, I do. Calling racecar drivers today spoiled brats is not a valid argument.

It's not my argument here. It's a secondary observation.

There is so much wrong with this statement. You are saying drivers should have no input on the race that they are in? How is that alright?

That's not at all what I'm saying. They can talk to their engineers all they want, but they should not interfere with race control. That's why there is a safety car after all. Alonso should simply not interfere, but he cannot resist and they let him.

I believe the Safety Car driver almost eating the wall is what prompted that decision. The red was called before Alonso could even have a chance to peak with them or anyone else from race control.

Maybe so, maybe not. It doesn't change that Alonso and other drivers sharing his mentality should just leave the big decisions to those in charge. Entitled personalities is a huge problem among F1 drivers.

Because we understand it was done in the name of driver safety?

So do I, but my entire point is that there's something fundamentally wrong with ending a large-scale endurance event due to heavy rainfall. IMSA and Daytona needs to ensure it won't happen again. Better draining would be a good start.

Hindsight is 20/20.

Point being?

Drainage doesn't solve low visibility, the other risk driver's were taking.

Drainage will minimize poor visibility. Less water equates to less spray.

You got over 12 hours of racing to watch this weekend. That's 10x the normal 2 hour or so length most racing events go through.

True, but a lot of hours were wasted hoping for restarts that took forever to happen and finally didn't.

Can't believe this spoiled brat doesn't want to race. What could he possibly risk racing in heavy rain?

Don't bring Zanardi into this. He is among the older and classier generation of race car drivers. I've already pointed out that IndyCar is way more dangerous in dry conditions than IMSA is under heavy rain. Zanardi kind of proves my point, unfortunately, but far worse things have happened in IndyCar since 2001. IndyCar oval racing is insanely dangerous compared to anything in sports car racing.

I am sad for you.

When you in fact should be sad that IMSA's anniversary event turned out so bad.

 

[fortbo]

That's not at all what I'm saying. They can talk to their engineers all they want, but they should not interfere with race control. That's why there is a safety car after all. Alonso should not interfere, but he cannot resist and they let him.



Maybe so, maybe not. It doesn't change that Alonso and other drivers sharing his mentality should just leave the big decisions to those in charge. Entitled drivers is a huge problem among F1 drivers.

Call me an entitled spoiled brat, but if racing conditions are far too dangerous to compete in, I will voice my concern to the race directors. I guess Niki Lauda is a spoiled brat in that case.

 

[Silver Arrows]

So lets play a hypothetical game here: Lets say that IMSA decides that the conditions are good enough for racing to continue, when even with the drying trucks working over time, is a fool's errand. A crash happens soon afterward because of the conditions that were present, enough for serious injury or even death. Now Daytona and IMSA are on the hook for the situation because of their negligence in the situation, and thus are viable for lawsuits and litigation.

For what? To prove some fake concept of manliness?

I wonder how you would feel about Jackie Stewart in the early 70's trying to increase safety standards so stuff like this doesn't happen. Would you call him a spoiled brat then?

 

[Spirit]

Maybe so, maybe not. It doesn't change that Alonso and other drivers sharing his mentality should just leave the big decisions to those in charge. Entitled personalities is a huge problem among F1 drivers.

Self-preservation is not entitlement.

 

[Downhill Dino]

So lets play a hypothetical game here: Lets say that IMSA decides that the conditions are good enough for racing to continue, when even with the drying trucks working over time, is a fool's errand. A crash happens soon afterward because of the conditions that were present, enough for serious injury or even death. Now Daytona and IMSA are on the hook for the situation because of their negligence in the situation, and thus are viable for lawsuits and litigation.

For what? To prove some fake concept of manliness?

I wonder how you would feel about Jackie Stewart in the early 70's trying to increase safety standards so stuff like this doesn't happen. Would you call him a spoiled brat then?

Would they be on the hook? Have on track incidents ever been brought to court?

 

[Nielsen]

Call me an entitled spoiled brat, but if racing conditions are far too dangerous to compete in, I will voice my concern to the race directors. I guess Niki Lauda is a spoiled brat in that case.

There's a difference between voicing concern and repeatedly persuading with zero respect for an authority above you. Now, I don't know if that's exactly how Alonso behaved today, but his mentality and behaviour during some F1 races were a disgrace.

Self-preservation is not entitlement.

Enough with the exaggerated danger argument. This is 2019, not 1999.

 

[Silver Arrows]

Would they be on the hook? Have on track incidents ever been brought to court?

If the case can be proven that IMSA and Daytona were negligent and still put drivers on the track when the conditions were dangerous, I'm sure that a lawyer could take it to court easily.

 

[Spirit]

Enough with the exaggerated danger argument. This is 2019, not 1999.

It's not exaggerated and I will not neglect driver safety as an adequate and irrefutable reason to end a race prematurely. The safety of these cars while improved from 1999, are not bulletproof. Remember what happened to Memo Gidley when he was unsighted a few years back? Lack of good visibility was the cause of this.

Spoiler: Viewer discretion advised, drivers were injured & since have recovered.

 

[DesertPenguin]

And I'm usually the one make stupid statements that everyone has to correct

 

[Nielsen]

So lets play a hypothetical game here: Lets say that IMSA decides that the conditions are good enough for racing to continue, when even with the drying trucks working over time, is a fool's errand. A crash happens soon afterward because of the conditions that were present, enough for serious injury or even death. Now Daytona and IMSA are on the hook for the situation because of their negligence in the situation, and thus are viable for lawsuits and litigation.

For what? To prove some fake concept of manliness?

My entire point is that the chances of anyone dying is slim, assuming the host venue has done its homework. Besides and again, safety of the cars has improved so much. The risk is always there no matter the weather!

I wonder how you would feel about Jackie Stewart in the early 70's trying to increase safety standards so stuff like this doesn't happen. Would you call him a spoiled brat then?

It was a legitimate concern at the time. Safety was pretty much non-existent.

It's not exaggerated and I will not neglect driver safety as an adequate and irrefutable reason to end a race prematurely. The safety of these cars while improved from 1999, are not bulletproof. Remember what happened to Memo Gidley when he was unsighted a few years back? Lack of good visibility was the cause of this.

And his example proves two things. Car safety saves lives nowadays and accidents can always happen, but we are not banning motorsports entirely. I get that you're trying to suggest that something similar can happen during the poor visibility of rain, but then Daytona needs to invest in better drainage. Red-flagging for hours and hours kills the sport.