2019 IMSA WeatherTech SportsCar ChampionshipSports Cars

[Dotini]

If even Alonso is saying it's not safe, than it's probably not safe.

I heard Wayne Taylor recount his radio conversation with Alonso, saying that he spoke of real fear.

"When Barristan the Bold tells you to run, a wise man laces up his boots." - George RR Martin, Dances With Dragons

"When Fernando Alonso tells you driving conditions are not safe, a wise man brakes and parks it."

 

[Nielsen]

Just from a cost standpoint as well many teams won’t be able to afford a full season entry based on the carnage that would happen if races are not called because of bad conditions.

Heavy rain races are not common enough to cause team bankruptcy left and right.

Yes, the cars are safer now, but drivers still get seriously injured and sometimes die even in this day and age. Allan Simonsen is a great example. We can’t just act like these cars are indestructible safety bubbles and just throw caution to the wind.

Allan Simonsen collided with a barrier that was placed right next to a tree, so unfortunately there was not enough room to absorb the impact. It was the tragic result of a major safety flaw at the venue. It reminded everyone that racing venues must be prepared to complement the advances made in car safety.

"You have to race in the swimming pool. I don't care if your race cars aren't designed for it, you're doing what I tell you or you're contributing to the downfall of motorsports."

Funny. My biggest gripe is how the race was not allowed to end under green. It's fair enough that they paused the race to blow dry parts of the track, but ending the event with two hours to go was appalling. The rain they faced in the 23rd hour was no worse than what some drivers managed to cope with during the 21st hour.

 

[Betty blue]

I'm I the only one who thinks that Cadillac is the best looking prototype for a long time? What a beauty!

 

[jake2013guy]

My biggest gripe is how the race was not allowed to end under green.

I read through your posts again to see if there was any way I could twist to get that understanding. Maybe you should actually say that instead of saying "Safety is fine" and "Some people didn't aquaplane."

but ending the event with two hours to go was appalling.

They tried. You can whine all you like but the series (with a job of making these types of decisions as well as driver input) decided the track was too wet. I didn't see a clear enough shot to show a clear difference. It's not like some F1 races where they'd go in for a shallower grooved tyre if there was the option on a restart.

 

[Northstar]

Heavy rain races are not common enough to cause team bankruptcy left and right.

Heavy rain increases the chance of a crash severe enough to write off the car. While the big teams can handle that without problem, the smaller teams can very much can go under since they usually only have the 1 chassis.

 

[TheHun99]

I agree with IMSA calling the race, it was too dangerous. With all the safety in place, when you go 150-0 crashing into a wall is not exactly what the human body is made for, no matter the safety.

Let’s celebrate the winners and get ready for Sebring and of course, Bathurst next weekend.

 

[fortbo]

Heavy rain races are not common enough to cause team bankruptcy left and right.

Risi would beg to differ. Their crash at Le Mans put them out for a while. I get that it wasn’t in the rain but you get the idea. Crashes like that happen more often when you throw away any concern for safety when conditions deteriorate.

 

[Dotini]

I'm I the only one who thinks that Cadillac is the best looking prototype for a long time? What a beauty!

Winning has a way of making any car automatically better looking.

Here's nifty article with many revealing photos of the Cadillac DPi/Dallara P217
http://www.racecar-engineering.com/cars/dallara-p217/

 

[Leadfoot530]

Just what we need, more Risi-esc teams falling out due to the extremely inflationary costs of a GT3 program, and some armchair racer wants to wreck them because it makes it exciting. 💡

Would have loved to see it get going again, but the conditions weren't improving and there wasn't a window to keep the track in a safe state. Not getting a full 24 hours in is a bummer, but if you can't race, you can't race. Not suprised at all by Mazda's continued reliability issues, called it after qualifying. Would have liked to see Penske get it done, but Derani, Taylor, and Alonso were the class of the field when it mattered most.

Really disappointed in Corvette this time around, mistakes that shouldn't be happening with this team. Thought Porsche had it until they started slipping about halfway through. AIM Vasser Sullivan is off to a great start! Would have liked to see the #86 MSR Acura end up with it, but a solid run nonetheless. I'm not completely sold on the #57 MSR though. Would have exoected better of them with Legge and Silvestro(?) behind the wheel. Too early to write them off, but I think Legge would have been better paired with the #86 group.

Already counting down to Sebing!

 

[Nielsen]

I read through your posts again to see if there was any way I could twist to get that understanding. Maybe you should actually say that instead of saying "Safety is fine" and "Some people didn't aquaplane."

Twist? There's a reason why I didn't raise my voice until they called it a day under red. Half the race suffered from red flags and extensive yellow flag periods, but patience was a virtue until they trolled the audience with nothing happening in the two final hours.

Heavy rain increases the chance of a crash severe enough to write off the car. While the big teams can handle that without problem, the smaller teams can very much can go under since they usually only have the 1 chassis.

Risi would beg to differ. Their crash at Le Mans put them out for a while. I get that it wasn’t in the rain but you get the idea. Crashes like that happen more often when you throw away any concern for safety when conditions deteriorate.

It's not like modern motorsports promises to be an affordable journey. It's a business that clearly does not revolve around those with limited budgets. Far-fetched to pretend that weather is a decisive dimension.

 

[AnthonyD1993]

Risi would beg to differ.

Spirit of Daytona also. They still haven't recovered from their Caddy being destroyed at Sebring last year.

 

[jake2013guy]

Twist? There's a reason why I didn't raise my voice until they called it a day under red. Half the race suffered from red flags and extensive yellow flag periods, but patience was a virtue until they trolled the audience with nothing happening in the two final hours.

It's nice how I raise points and you completely ignore them. Twist was giving the opportunity for a loose interpretation of what you said to be interpreted in that manner.

It's not like modern motorsports
promises to be an affordable journey

Nobody's saying it has to be affordable. Which is why these businesses do not want to waste money sending cars out into a situation where the likely situation is they're going to be damaged. Whether that's from their car aquaplaning or another car aquaplaning and spearing into the side of them.

 

[fortbo]

It's not like modern motorsports promises to be an affordable journey. It's a business that clearly does not revolve around those with limited budgets. Far-fetched to pretend that weather is a decisive dimension.

That’s more of a reason to not throw caution to the wind from a race organizers point of view. That’s how you kill a racing series. Teams would not want to enter knowing the race director does not car for driver safetty. I don’t understand what’s so appealing to you about carnage in terrible racing conditions. That’s how you kill racing. Entries will end up diminishing and you’ll be left with something like the WEC where there’s like 5 entries in a class.

 

[Northstar]

It's not like modern motorsports promises to be an affordable journey.

True, but there are ways for sanctioning bodies to make it as affordable as possible, like BoP and the recent attempts to limit "super silvers".

It's a business that clearly does not revolve around those with limited budgets.

Actually, it does, because eventually those big manufacturers willing to seemingly spend mountains of money will decide to no longer spend those mountains of money and than the teams with smaller budgets will be what holds that series together (the current LMP1 grid is a great example of this).

It's far-fetched to pretend that weather is a decisive dimension.

Nobody is saying it's a decisive dimension. What they are saying however is that racing in conditions like we had today increase the chances of something bad happening.

 

[Panoz]

A few photos I took during the final hours showing how bad visibility can get in a pack of cars. Then add the nasty puddles and rivers to what the drivers had to deal with.

 

[Nielsen]

It's nice how I raise points and you completely ignore them.

I've read all you've contributed to this discussion, but I have no additional comments to make. Besides, saying that I "whine" when I'm trying to make a point is not asking for a discussion. In short, we simply disagree on the red-flagging rain subject.

True, but there are ways for sanctioning bodies to make it as affordable as possible, like BoP and the recent attempts to limit "super silvers".

Yes, but motorsports ultimately are very expensive.

Actually, it does, because eventually those big manufacturers willing to seemingly spend mountains of money will decide to no longer spend those mountains of money and than the teams with smaller budgets will be what holds that series together (the current LMP1 grid is a great example of this).

LMP1 is dying and will be gone next year. How is that a great example of something holding together? Porsche and Audi left because the WEC is incompatible with the electric ambitions of both manufacturers. No one cared to reassess the costs of LMP1 back when it was only Peugeot who no longer wanted to take part. Costs kept escalating until Toyota was the only big player remaining. An eye-opener so to speak.

Nobody is saying it's a decisive dimension. What they are saying however is that racing in conditions like we had today increase the chances of something bad happening.

Then I don't know what led to small team budgets being brought up in this discussion.

 

[Northstar]

Yes, but motorsports ultimately are very expensive.

How does that counter what I said?

How is that a great example of something holding together?

Because if it wasn't for the smaller teams Toyota wouldn't have a title to compete for.

Then I don't know what led to small team budgets being brought up in this discussion.

Are you actively trying to not get people's points?

 

[twitcher]

Laurens Vanthoor is a guy who is usually one of the first to speak up in favour of keeping racing old school and as much of a challenge as possible, but even he said it was too much.

 

[AMPMROCKETFANN]

So, ah, how hard did it rain there that they had to stop cars built expressly to run in rain from doing just that?

 

[BKGlover]

So, ah, how hard did it rain there that they had to stop cars built expressly to run in rain from doing just that?

It was effectively 0 to monsoon during the morning hours. Even if they were designed to take rain, enough to make a boat hull a requirement can't be overcome. Add in fog and spray going up to grandstand heights, they don't make a vehicle that would handle it decently.

 

[G.T.Ace]

So, ah, how hard did it rain there that they had to stop cars built expressly to run in rain from doing just that?

At some points on the track cars were literally swimming. The prototypes were pretty much floating out of the bus stop.

 

[twitcher]

So, ah, how hard did it rain there that they had to stop cars built expressly to run in rain from doing just that?

I’m not completely sure if this picture is from Daytona, but I’m pretty sure that it is.


Lol oops, I didn’t see the stop sign, that’s not from Daytona lol

 

[G.T.Ace]

Look at that visibility and listen how he has to apply the throttle. Yikes.
Not even mentioning the braking.

 

[McLaren]

I'm more inclined to believe the people actually risking their bodies than some guy sitting behind a screen. If even Alonso is saying it's not safe, than it's probably not safe.

Even Alex Zanardi earlier in this morning during the first stop said he was having a hard time staying on the line behind the safety car and corners were very slick. He said they made the right call stopping bc he had no idea what it’d be like under green conditions.

Imagine a driver saying it’s dangerous under yellow conditions. Amazed people aren’t taking others’ lives into account, the entire reasoning for a red flag.

 

[G.T.Ace]

Imagine a driver saying it’s dangerous under yellow conditions. Amazed people aren’t taking others’ lives into account, the entire reasoning for a red flag.

But racing was so much better when people risked their lives! I mean those were REAL men! /s

 

[PzR Slim]

 

[TheHun99]

One thing I forgot to mention earlier: I was quite surprised that they have basically o means of channeling the water away. Not sure whether it would have helped today at all, but there should be some sort of possibility to get rid of some water towards the infield.

Sure, they don’t race on the oval when it rains but they do have the road racing sections, I’d expect some sort of solution in a stadium-like environment like DIS.

 

[Silver Arrows]

But racing was so much better when people risked their lives! I mean those were REAL men! /s

a part of me wonders if people lionize previous generations of racers if only to serve as a coded way of saying 'coddled millenials' or something like that.

 

[AnthonyD1993]

Racer just posted an article regarding the driving conditions at Daytona. One of the big things Marshall Pruett posted in it was that Alonso's conversation with the pace car driver occurred after he witnessed the pace car nearly crash at the bus stop. Article below.

https://racer.com/2019/01/27/rolex-drivers-question-decision-to-continue-racing-in-poor-conditions/

 

[G.T.Ace]

a part of me wonders if people lionize previous generations of racers if only to serve as a coded way of saying 'coddled millenials' or something like that.

I'm sure, even if it's just a small portion of people.
"Look at those soy boys not dying while driving at 200 mph through heavy rain! Losers!"