2021 FIA Series Race Discussion

[Famine]

I hope in this update they return to only allowing ONE ENTRY PER EVENT.
There’s no do overs in real racing.

Real racing also doesn't arbitrarily ban you from racing while you're on the grid waiting for the lights to go out, or let the guy that took you out for some perceived slight carry on racing.

Multiple time slots are a necessary step to account for disconnects and bastards.

 

[Groundfish]

Multiple time slots are a necessary step to account for disconnects and bastards

I agree with multiple time slots to account for peoples schedules, but imo it makes a race much better if you can only enter once.
Not every race counts points wise.

 

[tankuroded]

Not every race counts points wise.

Also, when you do multiple attempts, only the last attempt count.

 

[Groundfish]

Also, when you do multiple attempts, only the last attempt count.

Let’s just say I’m on first slot, everything like it is now. I know if I dive and lunge early if it goes badly I can try again, but if it’s one entry per event, as it once was it makes me think more about risky moves that’s all.
Right now might as well go for everything and enter again if it fails.
If the system doesn’t catch you out you win by devious means.

 

[xxPinkyKissxx]

I’ve only ever done more then one slot once. Always try to get into the first slot so I can catch out the people who’ve gone in cold without any practice! Don’t ever do final slots as others have either had a few races to nail their strategy or there’s some desperate last chance saloon drivers in their not wanting their night to end with a fail!

BUT my biggest decision I’ve to make is do I enter this season with my wheel? Have had a few weeks practice and am as quick or sometimes quicker as my pad times. Scared to screw up my DR level

 

[Seth_Logan]

Right now might as well go for everything and enter again if it fails.
If the system doesn’t catch you out you win by devious means.

In this case you're not concidering SR downs. Going again you might be in a lower ranked lobby with more accidents spiraling you further down etc.

 

[Famine]

I agree with multiple time slots to account for peoples schedules

But why? If we're taking the "but real life" route, in real life the race is on when it's on, not when you're ready for it to be on. Surely if you're dedicated to the thing, you'll create your own schedule around it? For "but real life", one slot is all you get.

If "but real life" is your justification, it makes no sense to be in favour of multiple time slots (and thus multiple winners; "Hey, who won the grand prix this weekend honey?", "Oh Hamilton, Verstappen, Hamilton, Hamilton, and Ricciardo.") for the races but not in favour of people racing in all the races they can.

Not every race counts points wise.

With the one-shot deal if you enter the Manufacturer Series with Mazda expecting to race the five Gr.3 races where the car is competitive, but you get disconnected/bastarded out of all five one-shot races, your entire season consists of races in the rotting dog wang Gr.4 car.
Hardly seems fair does it? Moreover...

Let’s just say I’m on first slot, everything like it is now. I know if I dive and lunge early if it goes badly I can try again, but if it’s one entry per event, as it once was it makes me think more about risky moves that’s all.

... you might get people who have toss Gr.3 cars and great Gr.4 cars deliberately taking other players out in Gr.3 races to destroy their points in those races so that they can have the advantage in Gr.4 races (or vice versa). With five slots they can do it once or twice maybe, but unless it's top split they can't destroy their entire evening (and week of practice leading up to it), unlike in one-shot races. And remember, the bastards don't get black-flagged, and they don't get banned for the next race(s), unlike real life.

And again, there's disconnects. Again, real life doesn't disintegrate your car on the grid waiting for the flag to drop.

We can't use "but real life" as an argument for how esports should be, because stuff happens in esports that cannot happen in real life (and at the moment vice versa). Esports isn't real life (as real life racers are fond of pointing out), and where it can be better (or more convenient) it should be.

 

[05XR8]

I hope in this update they return to only allowing ONE ENTRY PER EVENT.
There’s no do overs in real racing.

Some race series have two to three races per weekend. Even a couple per day. It's realistic.

Happens in GT3 and GT4 race series.
Another example are the TCR series. TCR Australia have two races nearly back to back. It's beneficial if someone gets into a collision. There is a gap for repairs and maintenance and tuning before the next race. Many drivers have had one or two races ruined and finished good in the last race.

 

[meekrab]

Some race series have two to three races per weekend. Even a couple per day. It's realistic.

I certainly can't speak for every series on the planet, but most of the ones I've seen that have multiple races, every race counts for points.

 

[Groundfish]

But why? If we're taking the "but real life" route, in real life the race is on when it's on, not when you're ready for it to be on. Surely if you're dedicated to the thing, you'll create your own schedule around it? For "but real life", one slot is all you get

I’m just saying in an esport if you have multiple do overs available then there’s no real risk involved in making arcade moves and taking advantage of the weaknesses in the pen system as well as ruining yours and others race.
What does it matter if you can try try again?
Whoops crashed someone out got a pen, oh well just enter again ho hum.

 

[05XR8]

I certainly can't speak for every series on the planet, but most of the ones I've seen that have multiple races, every race counts for points.

They sure do. In GTS FIA, if you race, you get points. If you don't race, you don't get points. Since the only "terminal damage" is a disconnect, it's fair to allow multiple slots.

 

[meekrab]

They sure do. In GTS FIA, if you race, you get points. If you don't race, you don't get points. Since the only "terminal damage" is a disconnect, it's fair to allow multiple slots.

The difference is that if you run the same FIA event 3 times, you get the points from your last race. In the real world all three races count for everyone.

 

[Groundfish]

Some race series have two to three races per weekend. Even a couple per day. It's realistic.

Happens in GT3 and GT4 race series.
Another example are the TCR series. TCR Australia have two races nearly back to back. It's beneficial if someone gets into a collision. There is a gap for repairs and maintenance and tuning before the next race. Many drivers have had one or two races ruined and finished good in the last race.

What I have seen in FIA is extremely overaggressive at times. I can’t help but think it’s because of do overs being available. It’s jmo. You make a good point.

Overall imo you ESPORT needs to find ways to maximize risk of making arcade level maneuvers.
One entry is one way to do that.

 

[GTWolverine]

Real racing also doesn't...let the guy that took you out for some perceived slight carry on racing.

*NASCAR has entered the chat*

Also, inb4 "NASCAR isn't real racing" jokes.

 

[Norrin Radd]

Can't even remember what the firs

I’m just saying in an esport if you have multiple do overs available then there’s no real risk involved in making arcade moves and taking advantage of the weaknesses in the pen system as well as ruining yours and others race.
What does it matter if you can try try again?
Whoops crashed someone out got a pen, oh well just enter again ho hum.

Well yes there is, in general the good drivers at any level run the first slot do well and quit. So second slots tends to have less points. Last season first time out and clueless, did first race got 38 points, but went again finished better with 20 points and the next slot winner got 21 IIRK. All at C/S. I really noticed the drop when I did a second go in Australia. Also no matter how badly you do, you can always end up worse so running again has that risk as well.
I get your point and it would be a good thing, if connections never failed and dirty drivers were banned for the whole season. Maybe a season limit of say 3 major incidents and your gone. Any major incident means exclusion that day. Of course that wouldn't work as people would work the system trying to get people banned.

 

[05XR8]

The difference is that if you run the same FIA event 3 times, you get the points from your last race. In the real world all three races count for everyone.

That's why I said, "They sure do.".

 

[Norrin Radd]

*NASCAR has entered the chat*

Also, inb4 "NASCAR isn't real racing" jokes.

Got to say I always thought this, but just do an oval race against real people on GTS and you see how much concentration is needed. You make a mistake in F1 and you still have a chance of catching up, in NASCAR you lose the slip it's pretty much game over. Still think it's really really boring, but then so is F1 nowadays.

 

[Trone_Colby]

I hope in this update they return to only allowing ONE ENTRY PER EVENT.
There’s no do overs in real racing.

Here’s the perfect video to hope that’ll never happen. I did unfortunately 1 shot this at this and got this crap. I still get ptsd from this at times. This was an FIA race last pre season.

 

[dlshearon]

I’ve only ever done more then one slot once. Always try to get into the first slot so I can catch out the people who’ve gone in cold without any practice! Don’t ever do final slots as others have either had a few races to nail their strategy or there’s some desperate last chance saloon drivers in their not wanting their night to end with a fail!

BUT my biggest decision I’ve to make is do I enter this season with my wheel? Have had a few weeks practice and am as quick or sometimes quicker as my pad times. Scared to screw up my DR level

Also the strategy I usually do.
I say run the wheel and good luck!

 

[Famine]

I’m just saying in an esport if you have multiple do overs available then there’s no real risk involved in making arcade moves and taking advantage of the weaknesses in the pen system as well as ruining yours and others race.
What does it matter if you can try try again?
Whoops crashed someone out got a pen, oh well just enter again ho hum.

Yes, I'm aware, you said it the first time. I pointed out the drawbacks to enforcing one entry, which you claim is to make things more like the real world but which increases the risks of things that cannot happen in the real world - and the weird inconsistency of allowing multiple time slots, which isn't very real-worldy either.

 

[RX8 Racer]

Real life races also have actual stewards, as opposed to an imperfect automated penalty system. So unless Polyphony can either make a penalty system that emulates a steward’s decisions at least 90-95% of the time or hire and pay an army of stewards to do post-race reviews of all A/B DR FIA races, I don’t expect the multiple time slots to go away anytime soon.

Also, I’ll add another example of a dirty driver sabotaging others to support the opinion of @Trone_Colby :

 

[OJBrit]

Here’s the perfect video to hope that’ll never happen. I did unfortunately 1 shot this at this and got this crap. I still get ptsd from this at times. This was an FIA race last pre season.

You sir deserve a medal to take on babysitting duties to save the rest of the grid.

 

[HaydenFan69]

With the one-shot deal if you enter the Manufacturer Series with Mazda expecting to race the five Gr.3 races where the car is competitive, but you get disconnected/bastarded out of all five one-shot races, your entire season consists of races in the rotting dog wang Gr.4 car.
Hardly seems fair does it? Moreover...

Then you had a bad season and move on. DC's are equipment related. I'd compare it's failure no differently than your system or your controller. Or because we are using "real life" usage, think of your connection as the engine. If your engine program sucks, you replace it. Meaning you might have to spend some money on your internet in order to help reduce the risk of DCing.

As for being crashed out. Well, again, it's bad luck and you move on. Not to the next race in a hour. Allowing multiple runs of a various round means you can be the a-hole and take someone out to negligible penalty, helping racing in that the a-hole will have to rethink his driving, and you can worry less about said a-hole.

As for the rotting dog wang Gr.4 Atenza. Firstly, a bit harsh. Calling it a fat pig is a more accurate term. Secondly, you picked the manufacturer. You should've done the research (or taken a peak at the many others who have and posted their results publicly).

I whole heartedly am in agreement for a one and done strategy. What I do in practice at the moment, and what the game should do. You can have the 4, 5, 6 slots currently, but you only get to pick one.

 

[Groundfish]

I whole heartedly am in agreement for a one and done strategy. What I do in practice at the moment, and what the game should do. You can have the 4, 5, 6 slots currently, but you only get to pick one.

For me the question is simple. Which way gives the best chance of me getting a clean race?
Is it everyone knowing this is their one and only chance at gaining some points?
Or is it everyone knowing if something bad happens there’s 2-3 more chances anyways?
Which way is more likely to cause chaotic races?

 

[05XR8]

Both ways have all types of racers. We see the same players in a race where one has a good race, but it wasn't so good for another.

I can do a one and done and/or a disco and can't race til next week. Many others don't want that.

We get that every race has their Pastor Maldonado and Roman Grosjean. Even upping the damage, isn't a guarantee to keep knuckleheads at bay.
One red bar can also ruin someone else's race. If you and the other 10 players are stuck behind at race start, too bad.

There are too many factors to only have the one slot. However, if that's what it always been from the start. So be it. To change that now, as the Daily went to Weekly, there'd be an even bigger uproar.

 

[tankuroded]

Real life races also have actual stewards, as opposed to an imperfect automated penalty system. So unless Polyphony can either make a penalty system that emulates a steward’s decisions at least 90-95% of the time or hire and pay an army of stewards to do post-race reviews of all A/B DR FIA races, I don’t expect the multiple time slots to go away anytime soon.

Human stewards are also imperfect and the Fuji pit line controversy from the regional finals (as well as various real-life racing judgment calls) are proof(s) of that.

 

[05XR8]

Mazda must have requested an overall performance boost for people to choose it. The lighter weight should help.
Now, the hot dog frankfurter Atenza needs the same treatment.

 

[neil_1980]

Mixed thoughts on one entry v several.

I joined a league this year where obviously you just have one shot and it’s brilliant fun... there’s slightly more pressure as you know this is you’re one shot at it however the races have all been very clean so there’s no issues and I’ve loved it.

FIA though I’d say I average 1 or 2 races per day. I prefer 1 but quite often someone will make a mad lunge or the penalty system screws me over so having that second slot is a nice safety net for events out of my control.

The only time I’ve ever planned to do more than 1 race at the start was the last manu race last season where I was just going to keep racing every slot as it was the last one and points didn’t matter for me in it... that went horrifically in a downward spiral which nearly got me an SR reset

 

[Norrin Radd]

For me the question is simple. Which way gives the best chance of me getting a clean race?
Is it everyone knowing this is their one and only chance at gaining some points?
Or is it everyone knowing if something bad happens there’s 2-3 more chances anyways?
Which way is more likely to cause chaotic races?

Well with the one and done method any truly malicious person can run there go then whip out an alt and ruin loads of peoples games. Now the chances of meeting someone like that multiple times isn't great. Don't think either way is really going to improve the chances of a clean race, but at least we get to try again if the worst happens.

Human stewards are also imperfect and the Fuji pit line controversy from the regional finals (as well as various real-life racing judgment calls) are proof(s) of that.

Yes humans make mistakes, but they can be corrected. Computers actually can't make mistakes so unless the programmers can do a perfect job we will have a flawed system. So the system should be as simple as possible. Working out if that cut was OK won't work, assigning blame won't work, basically either everything should be a pen or nothing and as long as they try to have this type of system it will suck and people will complain.

 

[Pigems]

I probably wouldn’t do FIA if it was one entry only. It reminds me of the last Supra Cup. Spent all week practicing for the first race, got a good Q in, then got punted in T3 to last place and race over, with no chance to go again. It’s not worth the effort of practicing for one only one shot, when someone can just ruin it right if the get go.