2024 NASCAR Discussion ThreadNASCAR
- Thread starter Dylan
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- Melbourne
- ScottPuss20
- CheetahsMeow
I've had a bit of time to process that overtime finish at Richmond and this is what I think:
If this comes across as a total mess then I do apologise, but I'd like to start by saying that the whole format that NASCAR has adopted will only serve to kill it in the long run. At it's core, motor racing is a sport. If it's to maintain credibility as a sport, the rules must ensure that the skill and ability take precedence over the entertainment aspect. What Austin Dillon did was dumb and totally uncalled for, and the fact that NASCAR hasn't taken his win away tells you all you need to know about what they want. I understand that NASCAR is rougher than most other motorsports, and we do see aggressive moves that most other leagues would not allow, however there has to be a line. After witnessing this disaster of a finish, it's fair to day that the line has been crossed and a new precedent must be set going forward or things will devolve into a **** show. However it seems clear to me that NASCAR want the controversy and their unwillingness to police incidents, no matter how big, makes the whole championship look like a complete joke.
Another issue comes down to the whole overtime rule, which I honestly believe should be scrapped. I understand that NASCAR want each race to finish under green, but a good race can sometimes be ruined after several restarts - just look at Nashville. Yellow flag finished aren't great but I feel like they're a necessary evil because more often than not, it will allow the right driver to win. Austin Dillon wouldn't have had a reason to wreck Logano if the race had ended under yellow. However this brings me to the third issue: the "win and you're in" playoff format. This system is very odd in the world of motorsport, and it encourages stupid moves to occur because if you don't win, you can't fight for a championship. It's soo stupid. The driver with the most points after all the races should win the championship, because that is the fairest way to determine a champion. It may suck sometimes when there's a runaway driver, but it may also provide excitement if there's a three way fight. A big benefit of a "regular" points system is that drivers who may not have had the best start to a season can claw their way back up the order to win.
NASCAR need to re-write the rule book or they will see a decline in spectator numbers and viewership, particularly amongst the casual audience. These sorts of incidents and NASCAR's focus on "entertainment" is only going to hold the series back and prevent any kind of expansion plans. On a world stage, reform is desperately needed and the rednecks need to understand that sportsmanship MUST be prioritised above showmanship.
If this comes across as a total mess then I do apologise, but I'd like to start by saying that the whole format that NASCAR has adopted will only serve to kill it in the long run. At it's core, motor racing is a sport. If it's to maintain credibility as a sport, the rules must ensure that the skill and ability take precedence over the entertainment aspect. What Austin Dillon did was dumb and totally uncalled for, and the fact that NASCAR hasn't taken his win away tells you all you need to know about what they want. I understand that NASCAR is rougher than most other motorsports, and we do see aggressive moves that most other leagues would not allow, however there has to be a line. After witnessing this disaster of a finish, it's fair to day that the line has been crossed and a new precedent must be set going forward or things will devolve into a **** show. However it seems clear to me that NASCAR want the controversy and their unwillingness to police incidents, no matter how big, makes the whole championship look like a complete joke.
Another issue comes down to the whole overtime rule, which I honestly believe should be scrapped. I understand that NASCAR want each race to finish under green, but a good race can sometimes be ruined after several restarts - just look at Nashville. Yellow flag finished aren't great but I feel like they're a necessary evil because more often than not, it will allow the right driver to win. Austin Dillon wouldn't have had a reason to wreck Logano if the race had ended under yellow. However this brings me to the third issue: the "win and you're in" playoff format. This system is very odd in the world of motorsport, and it encourages stupid moves to occur because if you don't win, you can't fight for a championship. It's soo stupid. The driver with the most points after all the races should win the championship, because that is the fairest way to determine a champion. It may suck sometimes when there's a runaway driver, but it may also provide excitement if there's a three way fight. A big benefit of a "regular" points system is that drivers who may not have had the best start to a season can claw their way back up the order to win.
NASCAR need to re-write the rule book or they will see a decline in spectator numbers and viewership, particularly amongst the casual audience. These sorts of incidents and NASCAR's focus on "entertainment" is only going to hold the series back and prevent any kind of expansion plans. On a world stage, reform is desperately needed and the rednecks need to understand that sportsmanship MUST be prioritised above showmanship.
- 1,808
- Space City, USA
- GTP_MPower
- JetsE36
You are completely right, it used to be a sport. It's been the "WWE of racing" for quite a while now. NASCAR won't take the win away for one (I admit terrible) reason. The Frances have always said that they don't ever want the fans who came, or watched, the race to find out that the results changed afterwards. There used to be a competitive respect among them, but that left a while ago.
The playoff system was what turned me off of NASCAR when it was introduced. It was a knee-jerk reaction to Matt Kenseth's championship run in 2003 when he won 1 race that year. They want to be like our stick-and-ball sports so bad here. The original goal of the playoff system was to produce what they called "Game 7 moments". The thing with that mentality though, is that NASCAR isn't happy and starts tweaking the system until it does. Also, to bastardize a Pixar movie quote, if every year has a "Game 7" moment, then none of them had "Game 7" moments. They want to encourage wins with this current system, which I understand, but it's not right, as you point out. I preferred the first iteration of it. Wins still mattered, but you also had to be in the Top 10 or 12 in points. That first year produced an amazing fight to get in the Chase and there have been some great years for the Chase format since. The problem I have with it is that NASCAR seems to change it every year or so. I certainly don't see the MLB or NFL meddling with their playoffs as much, or at all.
There has already been a pretty steady decline for the last decade or so among the casual and even enthusiastic fanbase. I grew up watching every race on every Sunday for years, up until ~2008. NASCAR wasn't the spectacle that it was in the early 2000s, at least in my house. The craziest thing about the focus on "entertainment" was never needed. It came naturally when there was respect between the drivers. You aren't wrong, but the NASCAR constituency has been much more than "rednecks" for more that 3 decades now, so stop with that outdated stereotype. I do agree with your argument though. It all comes down to the reality that NASCAR is scared to make officiating calls.
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- 20,700
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- Blitzbay
- Blitzbay
Dillon keeps the win Sunday but the win is encumbered and will not count for the playoffs. The 3 team has also been docked 25 driver and owner points and Dillon's spotter has been suspended 3 races. In addition, Joey Logano has been fined 50k for violating NASCAR code of conduct on pit road.
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Which puts Dillon (and the #3) 31st at 319 points, and out of the playoffs barring a second win in the next 3 races (they had been 27th and in the playoffs). Chris Buescher and the #17 are back in the provisional playoffs (by tiebreaker) over Ross Chastain and the #1.
The reason why it wasn't a full DQ was the winner would have been Denny Hamlin, or if NASCAR deemed Hamlin, as Victim #2, unworthy of the win, Tyler Reddick.
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They could have taken another 25 points as Dillon originally got 51 from the race, and fined him and/or the team the difference in purse money between 1st (with contingency awards) and 37th (with no contingency awards, but with the Charter cut), but that's pretty much it.
The reason why it's not 26 points is when NASCAR flat-out disqualified Denny Hamlin and Kyle Busch at the 2022 Pocono race, Hamin and Busch got 2 and 1 points for finishing 35th and 36th (respectively).
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opelgt1969
Premium
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- opelgt1969
I think that NASCAR should have also set him out of the next 3 races to make sure he wouldn't make the cut.
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- GTP_Eggstor
The #16 will have a full-time driver next year - AJ Allmendinger's back. Meanwhile, the Cup cars will now have the option of having an on-board rear lift kit to help get cars with flat rear tires get back to pit road (activated by the safety crew with an air compressor and deactivated by the pit crew by pulling a valve installed on the driver's side A-pillar), and RCR is appealing the penalties.
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Considering raising the rear end with what I'm guessing is just airbags would be immediately noticeable and dramatically change the car's handling, and the system likely isn't designed to be durable enough for extended use at racing speeds, I can't really see how that would be any more effective than shaving down surfaces or subtly messing with air ducts. Which teams have already been doing and getting caught for, so no doubt a new system like that would be scrutinized pretty heavily.
Not saying they won't try, but I highly doubt it's going to be a Smokey Yunick Special.
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RCR was partially successful in their appeal of the penalties coming out of Richmond - the spotter's suspension was reduced to 1 race from 3 (essentially "time served"). They are appealing the rest of the penalties (the win doesn't count for the playoffs/25 owners' points/25 drivers' points) to the Final Appeal Officer.
Meanwhile, in the wake of Corey LaJoie's flip at Michigan, Cup cars will have a right-rear window air deflector (essentially matching the one on the left side) starting this weekend.
Meanwhile, in the wake of Corey LaJoie's flip at Michigan, Cup cars will have a right-rear window air deflector (essentially matching the one on the left side) starting this weekend.
- 3,965
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Speaking of penalties, Denny Hamlin and the #11 got hit with a L2 penalty for illegally rebuilding the engine that won the spring Bristol race before NASCAR could inspect it (the least that could have happened in each applied category; there were no suspensions of team members):
- Lost 75 regular owners'/drivers' points (knocks Hamlin from 3rd to 6th and the #11 from 4th to 7th)
- Lost 10 playoff owners'/drivers' points (down to 11 and 6th)
- Crew chief Chris Gabehart is $100,000 poorer
- The win is encumbered (doesn't count for anything; knocks Hamlin/#11 out of a 3-way tie for 2nd in wins and leaves 2 that count)
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- DolphDrago
And it wasn't the team that made the mistake, but TRD. It must suck to get penalized for something like that when it wasn't your team's doing.
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TRD self reported it too. Weren't trying to hide anything. It's a bit like a couple years back when Hendrick got fined for putting a sealed engine in the wrong car. Huge administrative mistake.
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- Blitzbay
- Blitzbay
I can't even imagine what would have happened had they not done so.
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The Trackhouse logjam has been broken - Zane Smith will be the odd man out.
Update - The other half of that - Shane van Gisbergen will be driving the #88 for Trackhouse in Cup next year. It is unknown which of the 2 remaining SHR charters (assuming it's a SHR charter; they're the only team officially selling) Trackhouse picked up. Indeed, it's unknown which SHR charter Front Row picked up and (at least officially, though based on car number, likely the 41) which one is staying with Haas.
Update - The other half of that - Shane van Gisbergen will be driving the #88 for Trackhouse in Cup next year. It is unknown which of the 2 remaining SHR charters (assuming it's a SHR charter; they're the only team officially selling) Trackhouse picked up. Indeed, it's unknown which SHR charter Front Row picked up and (at least officially, though based on car number, likely the 41) which one is staying with Haas.
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- 2,009
- Australia
Bowman came so close to having McDowells car come through his window net.
That accident could've been so much worse, thought McDowell was heading to the catch fence.
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Shame a much worse accident did happen, ive never seen an upside car hit the wall so hard before. Sort of hit on the underside of the front end.
That accident could've been so much worse, thought McDowell was heading to the catch fence.
edit:
Shame a much worse accident did happen, ive never seen an upside car hit the wall so hard before. Sort of hit on the underside of the front end.
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- NotThePrez
- NotThePrez
I'm not a Harrison Burton fan by any stretch, but I'm 100% ok with that result.
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Awesome finish, just really happy it didn't end with a big wreck like it feels all the recent plate races have.
Great call by Diffey with Jeff in the box too.
Great call by Diffey with Jeff in the box too.
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