2024 US Presidential Election Thread

[HenrySwanson]

Some great discussions on LBC today.

Is the UK now an anomaly in the west in having a recent election where the left (if this Labour gov can be called that) won so emphatically? I recall the far-right were halted in France this year.

 

[sw3g005]

Yea, I can still blame voters for electing the insane guy. Yes. Regardless of your criticism of the Democrats, the insane guy is insane.

The fascist is a fascist. Yeah yeah I get that part. Everyone here gets that part.

By lying to them and scaring them? Yea. The Democrats told the truth, but half the country has their fingers in their ears. I suppose you want them to lie and scare people? At some point, you really do become as bad as what you're trying to fight.

If it works for the Republicans it works for them. It doesn’t mean the Democrats should copy them. If anything, staying away from right-wing policies and talking points (like being ”tough on border control”) would’ve helped the Democrats instead of… whatever the **** they decided to do. Oh and technically the Dems did try and scare voters into voting for them. Sure, it was for good reason, but I can't imagine that's the first thing that springs to mind for the undecided voter.

I don't know what you wanted them to do. What gamble didn't pay off? I just saw a group of people (formed from democrats and republicans) trying everything they could think of to stop the lying asshole from winning. Nothing worked because too many people are tuned out.

The ”atleast we’re not Trump” gamble. The kind of gamble that paid off in 2020, but is not guaranteed to work in other elections. It didn’t work this time, it didn’t work in 2016 – and that was even before we truly knew how terrible he was.

There was no "enough". Harris did basically everything right. It wasn't enough. At some point you have to stop pretending that the problem is with the people actually trying to do the right thing and realize that the the problem is with the people trying to do the wrong thing. The American people just didn't believe the threat. Now it's too late.

I'm getting pretty pissed at people blaming the folks working hard to do the right thing for the fact that scumbags are good at tricking idiots. You need to start pointing the finger where it belongs - on the bad actors.

There is no such thing as productivity anymore. Did you not notice? The autocrat and his cronies won.

I never said the bad actors doesn’t deserve blame – the bad actors (not the voters, the people manipulating the voters – Trump, Fox News, Musk, the lot) deserves all the crap thrown at them. I’m just saying that the Democrats (or rather the DNC) also deserves criticism for their strategy. She did well in the beginning, I’ll give you that. Then she tried to appeal to right-wing and "non-Trump Republicans" with the whole ”hard on border control” and D*ck Cheney endorsement charade. Given how the parties are perceived as very samey in America, stuff like that is a death sentence. The Cheney thing in particular… it reminds me of this (and it wouldn’t surprise me if others felt the same way):

 

[deththrasher]

Some great discussions on LBC today.

Is the UK now an anomaly in the west in having a recent election where the left (if this Labour gov can be called that) won so emphatically? I recall the far-right were halted in France this year.

It can't.

 

[MisterWaffles]

Welp, good going guys. Now I get to refer to the US exclusively as the Dumbfrick Confederacy for another four years, or maybe even longer.

Y’all decided to elect the racist, misogynistic, condemned conman for a second term after thoroughly demonstrating the first time that he would never be fit for public office in a million years. Now all you MAGA conspiracy nuts who distrust the government are completely fine handing total control over to it as long as “your guy” (who doesn’t actually give a s**t about any of you) is the one sitting in the big chair in DC.

For the first time in my life I don’t ever want to travel or have anything to do with the Dumbfrick Confederacy. They’ve shown today that racism, misogyny, xenophobia, transphobia, homophobia and Islamophobia are not only institutionalized in the country, they’ll become much stronger now than they likely have been for a very long time. Your country has shown that immorality and corruption are also perfectly acceptable political positions to occupy.

Now that Trump’s in for a second term. I’d be very surprised if Ukraine, Taiwan and Palestine are still countries in a decade. If it’s not WW3, there’s a good chance millions could be displaced or killed during those conflicts. Not to mention the people dying due to abortion bans, lack of access to gender affirming care, or RFK running the effing health board for Christ sake.

If you’re a trump supporter and think it’s hilarious watching liberals in your country get “epically owned” because orange man good and woke bad, just know there’s a high likelihood people are actually going to die because of this presidency (just like the thousands in his terrible handling of COVID). You were complicit in those deaths, and there’s blood on your hands if it comes to pass.

All this just to let an almost 80-year old man-child make the globe his personal sandbox with his billionaire and dictator buddies.

 

[Danoff]

The fascist is a fascist. Yeah yeah I get that part. Everyone here gets that part.

Well, not some of the newcomers to this thread.

If it works for the Republicans it works for them. It doesn’t mean the Democrats should copy them. If anything, staying away from right-wing policies and talking points (like being ”tough on border control”) would’ve helped the Democrats instead of… whatever the **** they decided to do. Oh and technically the Dems did try and scare voters into voting for them. Sure, it was for good reason, but I can't imagine that's the first thing that springs to mind for the undecided voter.

This just comes off as you wanting to criticize without being principled about the critique. You want them to scare people, but it's not what undecided voters care about? Or something? And it doesn't matter that it was for good reason? For some reason.

I honestly can't follow that.

The ”atleast we’re not Trump” gamble. The kind of gamble that paid off in 2020, but is not guaranteed to work in other elections. It didn’t work this time, it didn’t work in 2016 – and that was even before we truly knew how terrible he was.

Oh, that gamble. They didn't make that gamble. That was not the campaign Harris ran. I don't know where you were, but wherever you were, it wasn't here.

I never said the bad actors doesn’t deserve blame – the bad actors (not the voters, the people manipulating the voters – Trump, Fox News, Musk, the lot) deserves all the crap thrown at them. I’m just saying that the Democrats (or rather the DNC) also deserves criticism for their strategy. She did well in the beginning, I’ll give you that. Then she tried to appeal to right-wing and "non-Trump Republicans" with the whole ”hard on border control” and D*ck Cheney endorsement charade. Given how the parties are perceived as very samey in America, stuff like that is a death sentence. The Cheney thing in particular… it reminds me of this (and it wouldn’t surprise me if others felt the same way):
View attachment 1403363

Dick did his own thing. Building a coalition of republicans is a good idea for a centrist, especially when you're campaigning on basically core american values. What you have missed, and I don't know how you've missed it, is that this campaign was about core American values vs. Authoritarianism. That's what the vote was about. It's about that more deeply than any other issue, economy, immigration, none of that held a candle to democracy vs authoritarianism. How do I know? Trump's concepts of a plan were garbage. And he actively undermined compromise on immigration. His supporters know this. They don't care.

It has nothing to do with parties feeling "samey". It was about whether Americans support democracy or authoritarianism, and the answer, loud and clear, is authoritarianism. I think you need to make peace with this. I have been making peace with it for the last decade or so.

 

[AshenGraey]

Maybe they'll use some common sense and only deport the illegals who aren't contributing in a meaningful way and give the ones who are a green card/ path to citizenship. 🤷‍♂️

Question, from your point of view, what is an illegal immigrant?

I'm asking this because in my days living in the US, I've crossed path with quite a few people that were deemed "illegal immigrants" and knowing what I know about them, how exactly would an illegal immigrant contribute in a meaningful way when their status already prevent them from contributing to anything? They can't even get any kind of permits that would allow them to work even a really 💩 job. Yes, some might work under the table but those jobs are not even recorded in the economy so they can't really be counted.

Also, do you know how difficult it is to get a green card? Do you actually believe that they will just give illegal immigrants a path to green cards? Listening to Trump putting both legal and illegal immigrants in the same basket does not really give any confidence that him and his lackeys will use any of that so called "common sense" you mentioned to separate them. Heck, at this point if someone is not an American citizen by birth (assuming their parents are not immigrants themselves and they are not white), they should probably watch their backs 😂 😂 im joking of course. But all that aside, immigration will likely be a thing of the past, unless you are not from what he called 💩hole countries. What he doesn't realize is that people that are not from 💩hole countries do not want to move to the US.

 

[McLaren]

Maybe they'll use some common sense and only deport the illegals who aren't contributing in a meaningful way and give the ones who are a green card/ path to citizenship. 🤷‍♂️

From the guy whose openly argued for years to end birthright citizenship so he can deport natural born citizens is not in the interest of offering citizenship....

 

[Pfei]

I guess it's fitting that my fourteen-year stint as a GTPlanet member would come to an end over a political thread. I am aghast at the number of racist, hateful, and delusional comments I've seen here over the past few weeks. There is nothing wrong with a specialized forum having opinion sections. There is, however, a problem when said forum has editors, moderators, and contributors violating the Acceptable Use Policy multiple times in this thread. These are the same staff members that throw around the phrases "ad hominem", "AUP", and "strawman" all over the site like they are candy yet at the same time have no issue violating the AUP and allowing themselves as well as others in this thread to participate in endless "ad hominem attacks" and "strawman" arguments. I have even seen references to committing violence in this thread. I will not participate in a community whose moderators behave in such a disrespectful and hypocritical manner.

This may sound harsh, but those who believe that men can get pregnant, that using an incorrect pronoun is offensive, that take political propaganda as gospel even though it comes from a legacy media industry that has been proven to be lying to us in our faces for decades; you can't be reasoned with. Long gone are the days of my youth when groups of friends would hang out in bars and politely (heated at times) discuss the merits & drawbacks of Bill Clinton, George Bush, and Ross Perot without anyone getting offended. Because everyone was on the same page regarding the basic tenets that we collectively held dear. It was fun, inspiring, enriching... The "right" generally adheres today to those values, while the "left" has been completely radicalized, which makes discourse nearly impossible. Even JFK and MLK would be considered "far-right extremists" by today's standards.

I suggest everyone read up on how dictatorships, purges, cultural revolutions, and massacres start. Just two to get you going: Pol Pot and Mao. Because you will realize that Donald Trump is not the person you should be afraid of. Wake up and recover your critical thinking capacity because we are all going to need each other in the near future. Think for yourself for once.

I will leave three book suggestions to help understand history, economics, and current events with a clear mind: The Road to Serfdom by Friedrich Hayek, Economics in One Lesson by Henry Hazlitt, and Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds by Charles Mackay. Take it or leave it.

Since GTP does not allow us to delete our accounts, I will now log out and never return.

Thanks a lot for ruining another community.

 

[MatskiMonk]

^

What got her goat?

 

[McLaren]

The "right" generally adheres today to those values, while the "left" has been completely radicalized,

Projection from a cult.

which makes discourse nearly impossible. Even JFK and MLK would be considered "far-right extremists" by today's standards.

How ironic given a candidate running for Governor was praised by Trump for being better than MLK Jr. & then lost said race b/c he ended up being extremely far right-wing.

Wake up and recover your critical thinking capacity because we are all going to need each other in the near future. Think for yourself for once.

Pot meet kettle.

Thanks a lot for ruining another community.

 

[Joey D]

Since GTP does not allow us to delete our accounts, I will now log out and never return.

This isn't an airport; you don't need to announce your departure.

You must not have read much of the threads here, though. Most of the arguments and debates have been well thought out, backed up by evidence, and open for discussion. No one is being silenced, however there are some utterly asinine ideas that creep up from time to time that are put down. It's not that we are dogpiling on anyone either; it's that they come in here with a poorly formed argument or do "drive by bitchfits". Many of us challenge each other to become better informed and to push each other's ideas. We don't always agree, hell we don't all agree on Trump either. I'm not 100% convinced he will become a dictator while others are; they're making arguments for their case, and I'm reading them because that's how you develop your position on something.

 

[Famine]

^

What got her goat?

Different opinions from people with badges under their names, it seems.

Their last post in this subforum was 13 years ago, and it came only a few days after floating a conspiracy theory that Fukushima Daiichi was built "badly" on purpose.

Weird that this is the third person to come out of the woodwork today to kick off and leave. Although the first to do so voluntarily. Like, your guy won. Be happy, not angry.

 

[UKMikey]

 

[MatskiMonk]

Weird that this is the third person to come out of the woodwork today to kick off and leave

I hope Jordan is able to financially recover from this.

 

[Jezza819]

The "right" generally adheres today to those values, while the "left" has been completely radicalized, which makes discourse nearly impossible.

So on January 6, 2021 those people were all from the "radicalized" left?

that take political propaganda as gospel

It's the "radicalized" left that believes there are Haitian immigrants in Springfield, Ohio eating the cats and dogs of the residents there? Fox News, Newsmax, OAN make their money by spreading lies to gullible conservatives.

 

[TexRex]

I guess it's fitting that my fourteen-year stint as a GTPlanet member would come to an end over a political thread. I am aghast at the number of racist, hateful, and delusional comments I've seen here over the past few weeks. There is nothing wrong with a specialized forum having opinion sections. There is, however, a problem when said forum has editors, moderators, and contributors violating the Acceptable Use Policy multiple times in this thread. These are the same staff members that throw around the phrases "ad hominem", "AUP", and "strawman" all over the site like they are candy yet at the same time have no issue violating the AUP and allowing themselves as well as others in this thread to participate in endless "ad hominem attacks" and "strawman" arguments. I have even seen references to committing violence in this thread. I will not participate in a community whose moderators behave in such a disrespectful and hypocritical manner.

This may sound harsh, but those who believe that men can get pregnant, that using an incorrect pronoun is offensive, that take political propaganda as gospel even though it comes from a legacy media industry that has been proven to be lying to us in our faces for decades; you can't be reasoned with. Long gone are the days of my youth when groups of friends would hang out in bars and politely (heated at times) discuss the merits & drawbacks of Bill Clinton, George Bush, and Ross Perot without anyone getting offended. Because everyone was on the same page regarding the basic tenets that we collectively held dear. It was fun, inspiring, enriching... The "right" generally adheres today to those values, while the "left" has been completely radicalized, which makes discourse nearly impossible. Even JFK and MLK would be considered "far-right extremists" by today's standards.

I suggest everyone read up on how dictatorships, purges, cultural revolutions, and massacres start. Just two to get you going: Pol Pot and Mao. Because you will realize that Donald Trump is not the person you should be afraid of. Wake up and recover your critical thinking capacity because we are all going to need each other in the near future. Think for yourself for once.

I will leave three book suggestions to help understand history, economics, and current events with a clear mind: The Road to Serfdom by Friedrich Hayek, Economics in One Lesson by Henry Hazlitt, and Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds by Charles Mackay. Take it or leave it.

Since GTP does not allow us to delete our accounts, I will now log out and never return.

Thanks a lot for ruining another community.

That. Was. Amazing.

This isn't an airport; you don't need to announce your departure.

No but they really, really do. It's pathological. And I'm thankful for that.

 

[Keef]

Because everyone was on the same page regarding the basic tenets that we collectively held dear.

All the old men who raised me were on the same page regarding their basic tenets as well.

One year, they hung black bowling balls from tree branches on Halloween and laughed their asses off. Called them n* eggs. That's what I was learning when I was 10 years old.

Like, your guy won. Be happy, not angry.

This is reminding me of all the college campuses that throw ragers and set things on fire after their teams win. I guess that's how hard Republicans party!

purges

Trump literally ran on "drain the swamp" the first time around. RFK just released a video about "make American healthy again" where he said his first task will be to fire all the agency leaders he's in charge of because they're not trustworthy.



You'll note that one thing most dictators expected of their constituents was conformity. What better and more innocent way to promote conformity - and easy idenfication - than to sell hats? The message the hat conveys is so blatant that loyalists dedicated enough to wear them in public are instantly recognizable. Everybody else, well, they're free to choose but they're definitely not on the team.

 

[Pupik]

This isn't an airport; you don't need to announce your departure.

We've already resold the seat to a standby passenger who likes Gran Turismo.

Comparing our fears to Pol Pot and Mao misses the mark by setting a terribly low standard; America and The World shouldn't have to deal with another Andrew Johnson, let alone Trvmpvs Covfefe.

 

[Bram Turismo]

Question:

If the Republicans hold majority in both the Senate and the House of Representatives, does this mean a Republican President gets to rule without being able to be veto'd on any rule he wishes to pass?

In other words, does Trump get unlimited "Get out of jail" cards for free regarding his court cases and whatever might be thrown at him during his tenure?

 

[Blitz24]

Question:

If the Republicans hold majority in both the Senate and the House of Representatives, does this mean a Republican President gets to rule without being able to be veto'd on any rule he wishes to pass?

In other words, does Trump get unlimited "Get out of jail" cards for free regarding his court cases and whatever might be thrown at him during his tenure?

Not necessarily.

Following the rule of law, you need 2/3rds of the Senate to approve position appointments.

 

[TexRex]

This is just you attributing to barely half of those of a particular age who voted one particular way your own viewpoint; pure fantasy.

Orin Kerr said this much better.

He's so good.

 

[Scaff]

Because you will realize that Donald Trump is not the person you should be afraid of.

On the off-chance, you are a typical 'toys out of pram' departure and return, I have one simple question.

if Trump is not this kind of person, then please explain his attempt at an insurrection?

 

[Lain]

This is why democrats lost, again. Because all they do is demonise people with a different viewpoint, which actually turns them away from the left.

Johnathan Pie said it best in 2016

Spoiler: Language warning

Nah they lost because they can't bring themselves to lie (or at least struggle to), which gives Republicans a pretty hefty advantage among people susceptible to believing lies.

 

[TheHun99]

Question:

If the Republicans hold majority in both the Senate and the House of Representatives, does this mean a Republican President gets to rule without being able to be veto'd on any rule he wishes to pass?

In other words, does Trump get unlimited "Get out of jail" cards for free regarding his court cases and whatever might be thrown at him during his tenure?

Not necessarily.

Following the rule of law, you need 2/3rds of the Senate to approve position appointments.

Trump has already flirted with the idea of using acting secretaries. He apparently isn't happy about the whole HR situation he dealt with last time, so now he's gonna have loyalists line up who are willing to do his bidding no questions asked. I'm fairly confident that he'll be able to use acting secretaries, directors etc. and replace them on a whim - and no one can do 💩 about it. I have no idea whether there are any rules or limitations for acting vs confirmed secretaries but I highly doubt that anyone could legally challenge him while we have the SCOTUS we have...

 

[McLaren]

You'll note that one thing most dictators expected of their constituents was conformity. What better and more innocent way to promote conformity - and easy idenfication - than to sell hats? The message the hat conveys is so blatant that loyalists dedicated enough to wear them in public are instantly recognizable. Everybody else, well, they're free to choose but they're definitely not on the team.

Everything is going to be a grift in this administration, isn't it? Can't leave that opportunity behind during the campaigns to suck as much personal wealth out of the followers.

 

[Lain]

Gen X has had enough of the BS, that's what happened.
Insult them all you want, they really don't give a bleep.
They'd rather be left alone and be able to afford groceries and rent or a house.

There was push back on socialism, globalism, social issues, open borders, etc.., but it's mainly about the economy.
Open borders was the next biggest concern. If liberal democrats don't understand that, they're doomed to repeat their mistakes in the future.

Demonizing half the country isn't a successful strategy.


View attachment 1403335

Indeed the economy was unfortunately why many misled people voted for Trump and against their own interests. A Harris presidency would've almost certainly have been way better for the economy than a 2nd Trump term and the end of American democracy.

But hey, I understand that you might not be keen to listen if you feel we're "demonizing" you... so here's what I would suggest. Trump told you he'd fix it, make it all better? Great, let's glue that goalpost down: Make a spreadsheet of all the stuff you buy (or are interested in buying) and their current prices. Then, at whatever point in Trump's presidency you feel the problem should've been fixed by (or at least started to improve by), revisit this spreadsheet and compare to the new current prices. If I was a betting man, I'd wager it ain't gonna be pretty. And if it isn't pretty, don't allow a bruised ego and even poorer financial situation to make yourself susceptible to swallowing even more of their lies, excuses, and scapegoating.

 

[McLaren]

Indeed the economy was unfortunately why many misled people voted for Trump and against their own interests. A Harris presidency would've almost certainly have been way better for the economy than a 2nd Trump term and the end of American democracy.

But hey, I understand that you might not be keen to listen if you feel we're "demonizing" you... so here's what I would suggest. Trump told you he'd fix it, make it all better? Great, let's glue that goalpost down: Make a spreadsheet of all the stuff you buy (or are interested in buying) and their current prices. Then, at whatever point in Trump's presidency you feel the problem should've been fixed by (or at least started to improve by), revisit this spreadsheet and compare to the new current prices. If I was a betting man, I'd wager it ain't gonna be pretty.

They're already writing articles on it.

Americans stand to lose between $46 billion and $78 billion in spending power each year on products including apparel, toys, furniture, household appliances, footwear and travel goods due to the new tariffs, the National Retail Federation stated in findings released Monday.

"Retailers rely heavily on imported products and manufacturing components so that they can offer their customers a variety of products at affordable prices," NRF Vice President of Supply Chain and Customs Policy Jonathan Gold said in a statement. "A tariff is a tax paid by the U.S. importer, not a foreign country or the exporter. This tax ultimately comes out of consumers' pockets through higher prices."

For example, a $40 toaster oven would retail for $48 to $52 after the tariffs, while a $50 pair of running shoes would jump to to $59 to $64, according to the industry trade group. A $2,000 mattress and box spring set would cost $2,128 to $2,190, the NRF said.

During President-elect Trump's first term in office, his administration imposed tariffs of up to 25% on more than $360 billion in products from China. President Joe Biden's White House kept most of those tariffs and added more onto goods including Chinese electric cars and microchips.

Now, Trump has said he plans to impose a 60% tax on goods from China and a 10% to 20% levy on all of the $3 trillion in foreign goods the U.S. imports annually. Such sweeping tariffs would reignite inflation, as they would mostly be paid by U.S. consumers, Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen has warned, offering a general view widely shared by other economists on both sides of the political aisle.

Trump's win could lead companies to push up prices. Here's why.

President-elect Donald Trump's vow to raise tariffs could have Americans paying more for goods, from toys to auto parts, experts say.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

One thing that will be interesting to see play out is how Trump manages to carry out all of his contradictory proposals. Cut inflation while instituting sweeping Tariffs? Yeah, sure buddy. Reduce the deficit while massively slashing tax revenue? Boost the economy while deporting potentially millions of, you know, workers? Ok, right.

But he could also just do not a god damn thing and his supports would still love him and think everything is dramatically improving, so I'd guess he'll just be supremely lazy.

 

[Kriptical]

I guess it's fitting that my fourteen-year stint as a GTPlanet member would come to an end over a political thread. I am aghast at the number of racist, hateful, and delusional comments I've seen here over the past few weeks. There is nothing wrong with a specialized forum having opinion sections. There is, however, a problem when said forum has editors, moderators, and contributors violating the Acceptable Use Policy multiple times in this thread. These are the same staff members that throw around the phrases "ad hominem", "AUP", and "strawman" all over the site like they are candy yet at the same time have no issue violating the AUP and allowing themselves as well as others in this thread to participate in endless "ad hominem attacks" and "strawman" arguments. I have even seen references to committing violence in this thread. I will not participate in a community whose moderators behave in such a disrespectful and hypocritical manner.

This may sound harsh, but those who believe that men can get pregnant, that using an incorrect pronoun is offensive, that take political propaganda as gospel even though it comes from a legacy media industry that has been proven to be lying to us in our faces for decades; you can't be reasoned with. Long gone are the days of my youth when groups of friends would hang out in bars and politely (heated at times) discuss the merits & drawbacks of Bill Clinton, George Bush, and Ross Perot without anyone getting offended. Because everyone was on the same page regarding the basic tenets that we collectively held dear. It was fun, inspiring, enriching... The "right" generally adheres today to those values, while the "left" has been completely radicalized, which makes discourse nearly impossible. Even JFK and MLK would be considered "far-right extremists" by today's standards.

I suggest everyone read up on how dictatorships, purges, cultural revolutions, and massacres start. Just two to get you going: Pol Pot and Mao. Because you will realize that Donald Trump is not the person you should be afraid of. Wake up and recover your critical thinking capacity because we are all going to need each other in the near future. Think for yourself for once.

I will leave three book suggestions to help understand history, economics, and current events with a clear mind: The Road to Serfdom by Friedrich Hayek, Economics in One Lesson by Henry Hazlitt, and Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds by Charles Mackay. Take it or leave it.

Since GTP does not allow us to delete our accounts, I will now log out and never return.

Thanks a lot for ruining another community.

Can i have your stuff?

 

[opelgt1969]

Well I’m flabbergasted “The littlest Dictator” got back in power and managed to secure all the backing he needs to make the USA bend to his wet-dreams.

I just hope this now shows the EU how much we need to pull together and also for the UK to have a door opened by the EU to come back into the fold.

Days like this one are probably the first time I've ever legitimately been ashamed to be American.

I'm not the most patriotic person to begin with, but this ****? If I had the means to do so, I'd uproot my entire life and move outside of this place. But that's not an option so I have to keep my head down for four years and just let whatever happens...happen.

How un-effing-believably depressing.

Nobody is holding a gun making you stay so pack your bags and maybe you can catch a flight to Mexico with the illegal border crossers