2024 US Presidential Election Thread

[Tyrone B]

"I won't be around in 200 years so why do I care?"

Mind you, these are often people that profess to be Christian.

 

[Jezza819]

Meanwhile as Trump continues to ditch interviews like 60 Minutes because he doesn't like to be fact checked, Kamala Harris will appear on The Howard Stern Show tomorrow.

Watch and Listen to Kamala Harris’ Full Interview with Howard Stern

The current Vice President and 2024 Democratic presidential nominee will appear on ‘The Howard Stern Show.’

www.siriusxm.com

 

[Danoff]

Meanwhile as Trump continues to ditch interviews like 60 Minutes because he doesn't like to be fact checked, Kamala Harris will appear on The Howard Stern Show tomorrow.

Watch and Listen to Kamala Harris’ Full Interview with Howard Stern

The current Vice President and 2024 Democratic presidential nominee will appear on ‘The Howard Stern Show.’

www.siriusxm.com

Here's the 60 min.

 

[UKMikey]

It's Colbert I'm waiting for.

 

[Liquid]

I am so cynical that I heartily lap up hypotheses like these: Netanyahu is holding back on a ceasefire until, hopefully for him, Trump is elected. It will be a huge coup about Trump's 'abilities' as a broker of peace.

Maybe not that exact scenario but something like that.

 

[UKMikey]

What time does Jimmy Kimmel broadcast tonight?

 

[UKMikey]

"Guns don't protect the 1st amendment" (12'21"):

 

[Danoff]

Here's the 60 min.

The 60 minutes interview was a little disappointing. It seemed to me like they were looking for a few "gotcha" moments, to try to appear adversarial or at least hard-hitting. I'd have preferred a real honest discussion about the problems that truly face a Harris presidency.

Because it's not immigration. I get that people are worried about that, but it's not the number one concern, and there is bipartisan support behind it anyway. It's also not economic policy, the economy is doing well. It's also not the deficit or taxes.

The number 1 issue facing a Harris presidency is how to cure this problem of being on the brink, it's what @Joey D said about being exhausted at having to defend democracy from collapse every 5 minutes. The issue is supreme court reform, it's presidential pardon reform, it's electoral college reform (national popular vote compact), it's gerrymandering reform, it's protections over the right to vote, it's protections for mail-in voting, it's protections for congressional election certification, and of course, protection for women's bodies.

Maybe voters are just too stupid to listen to discussions about these issues. Maybe it doesn't move the needle. But we reinforce the stupidity by giving voters this much airtime on stuff like immigration or "the economy" or even trade. We turn their eyes away from what actually matters to what doesn't matter.

For what it's worth, I think Harris is aware of these issues. But I thought Biden was aware of those issues too and we got none of that done. Maybe it's hard. Maybe it requires more of a shift in congress. But why is NOBODY talking about these issues when we're on the brink... again.


==============================================

I have no idea what part of the democrat platform you're complaining about.

Immigration? There was a bi-partisan border deal that Trump sabotaged. Kamala herself has prosecuted transnational gangs operating across the US-Mexico border.
Taxes? Capital gains taxes are not at a healthy place today compared to regular income tax
Deficit? You're joking right?
Crime? This also has to be a joke.
Renewable energy? Are people still complaining about this?
Inflation? Worldwide inflation occurred following the pandemic. At the time, it was let companies fail and evictions proceed at breakneck pace and destroy the recovery, or try to keep it afloat with monetary policy. The world pretty much answered in a united fashion, and whether or not you agree with how they responded, there was no path that didn't include a downside. The pandemic baked that in.

Where's the complaint?

I have no idea why those same people would prefer tarrifs, isolationist trade policies, anti-immigration policies. Even if you limit it to that, and ignore all of the horrible anti-democratic, anti-human rights stuff, and just look at economic policy, the GOP is very decidedly non-libertarian. Moreso than the democrat proposals.

I'm lost on why this makes sense to anyone. Help me out.


I agree. I'd love to not be in a position where we constantly seem to be on the brink. But that's where we are. Giving up and falling off is just irresponsible.

@Duke

I'm still wondering what the issue is with Harris for some of the voters you're talking about. You say you know people who hate Harris so much that they will vote for pure insanity. On what basis? I get that she's a she, and she's black. And that's enough to make some people vote for the orange guy. I get that she's a democrat, and that's enough for people to vote for the red guy. But aside from this kind of rah rah go team stuff, why would someone think they had a rational basis for voting trump?


I return to my previous position. It did not matter who the democrats floated. There is simply a baked-in cult of authoritarian insanity who has been promised slightly lower gas prices if only they let Trump pardon the january 6th rioters. And they're buying that nonsense.

 

[Duke]

I have no idea what part of the democrat platform you're complaining about.

Immigration? There was a bi-partisan border deal that Trump sabotaged. Kamala herself has prosecuted transnational gangs operating across the US-Mexico border.

Immigration isn't directly a significant issue with me. I've said for decades that we need to streamline the immigration process. The Trump Cult swears that the Democrats allow noncitizen voting, but everyone with a brain knows that's bull. I do not believe voting fraud is a serious problem at the national level. I am, however, in favor of requiring ID to vote, which currently 15 states do not.

But you can have either a welfare state or relatively open borders, NOT BOTH. I don't see much evidence that Harris won't try for both. Of the two, I'd much prefer reasonably open borders and a streamlined immigration process, but you need to couple that with substantially reduced public entitlements, in both volume and duration of benefits.

Taxes? Capital gains taxes are not at a healthy place today compared to regular income tax

Harris and the Democrats are (or at least recently were) proposing a tax on unrealized capital gains. That's utter crap in its deepest form. I recognize that they intend it to apply only to people with net assets > $100M. DO NOT CARE. They are literally defining a hypothetical amount,taxing you on it, and then repeating that year after year. It what possible world is that just? They're considering it a "prepayment" of future capital gains. As if that makes it better. And what happens if the yearly tax on unrealized gains adds up to more than the actual gain? Ooooooh, you get a credit towards future taxes. Great - so you have the privilege of giving the government a large, interest-free loan for potentially decades instead of a single year. Suuuuuuper fair.

From the official Democratic Party platform: "President Biden’s plans will cut taxes for middle-class and low-income Americans – and we’ll finance those cuts by making the ultra-wealthy and big corporations finally start paying their fair share."

This is an old saw that liberals just love to bring out an polish up every election year. The top 10% pays 75% of the income taxes... but somehow that's still not "their fair share." The Democratic platform on taxes boils down to "Eat The Rich", an idea as old as time, but neither fair nor good. But nobody is talking about simplifying and balancing the tax code; they're only talking about making it more complicated.

Deficit? You're joking right?

What do you think I'm joking about? Neither candidate has any interest in reducing the deficit. Other than a few Cultists who somehow think Trump is planning to "pay back the debt" by selling oil or something, no one on the campaign trail is talking about it at all. All they're talking about is new or different ways to spend too much money. The Republicans are still coasting on the conventional historic wisdom that they are the party of reduced government spending - which, like most conventional wisdom, is of course dead wrong, and has been for decades. But the Democrats aren't even bothering to pretend that they won't throw borrowed and printed money at everything under the sun.

Second only to Trump and the Cult's direct threat to democracy itself, government deficit spending is historically the largest crisis the US is facing. And no one with any political influence cares at all. In fact, they are actively involved in making the problem worse, for their own short-term political gain.

Crime? This also has to be a joke.

Crime is not a real issue for me. I don't believe it's up much (if at all), despite the Republican hysteria. It would be nice to end the war on drugs at the national level, however, which Harris sort of seems to be proposing, maybe.

Renewable energy? Are people still complaining about this?

Shouldn't be subsidized. Period. NOTHING should be subsidized. But if you MUST subsidize something, how about subsidizing something with real, robust energy density, like building modern, high-efficiency nuclear plants?

Inflation? Worldwide inflation occurred following the pandemic. At the time, it was let companies fail and evictions proceed at breakneck pace and destroy the recovery, or try to keep it afloat with monetary policy. The world pretty much answered in a united fashion, and whether or not you agree with how they responded, there was no path that didn't include a downside. The pandemic baked that in.

Yes, inflation. The pandemic guaranteed there would be unavoidable economic problems, agreed. No one expected to come out of that unscathed. Yes, Trump started the spending. But even when it became clear that inflation was unavoidable, the Biden administration just kept pumping fuel on the fire. Too much, too fast, too long, all while denying that it was happening. You and I have disagreed about the stimulus packages before, and we still do. They overwhelmed already stressed supply chains, they guaranteed that we got pennies on the dollar in infrastructure value, and they radically raised costs for everyone. not just government projects. In late 2019 I was getting ready to gut renovate both bathrooms in my house, which would have cost about $50,000 at that time. Then the pandemic hit and that cost jumped to - not kidding here - $140,000, which is about what I paid for my whole house in 1992. So it didn't happen until 2023, and even then if cost $80,000 - that's 62.5% inflation in 4 years. It put lots of small contractors out of business, because no one could afford to do small projects, and they weren't big enough to grab a slice of that government pie.

So yes, inflation is an issue. It was unavoidable - but it did NOT have to be as bad as the Democrats made it.

Where's the complaint?

Just told you.

I have no idea why those same people would prefer tarrifs, isolationist trade policies, anti-immigration policies. Even if you limit it to that, and ignore all of the horrible anti-democratic, anti-human rights stuff, and just look at economic policy, the GOP is very decidedly non-libertarian. Moreso than the democrat proposals.

I'm lost on why this makes sense to anyone. Help me out.

The non-Cultist people I know are convinced that tariffs will protect and strengthen US businesses. You and I both know they won't, but that is the belief, and that's why they are willing to vote Trump despite his flaws. They also believe at least some of the Republican machine's hype about both crime and illegal immigrants. These of course range from "based on some truth" to "completely insane total lies". Most of the undecided / centrists I know do not make it anywhere near the upper end of that scale, but they also tend to dismiss that crap as being fringe, rather than distressingly commonly believed.

 

[HenrySwanson]

You are likely patriotic.

Do you think America should go against the axis of authoritarian states?

 

[Blitz24]

View attachment 1395489

Did he also send leaves (leafs?) to make his table even longer?

 

[Danoff]

Immigration isn't directly a significant issue with me. I've said for decades that we need to streamline the immigration process. The Trump Cult swears that the Democrats allow noncitizen voting, but everyone with a brain knows that's bull. I do not believe voting fraud is a serious problem at the national level. I am, however, in favor of requiring ID to vote, which currently 15 states do not.

I don't use my ID in Colorado. I did get asked to show my ID in California. Guess which one is safer from a voter fraud perspective? It's Colorado. And it's not close.

But you can have either a welfare state or relatively open borders, NOT BOTH. I don't see much evidence that Harris won't try for both. Of the two, I'd much prefer reasonably open borders and a streamlined immigration process, but you need to couple that with substantially reduced public entitlements, in both volume and duration of benefits.

The evidence is that Harris already backed a tougher border bill and has publicly said she would sign that if it were on her desk. It had support in congress based on the current congressional makeup. There's your evidence that she's not going for both. The Biden/Harris admin has been a lot tougher on immigration than most on that side would like actually. And they have signaled that they will continue to be.

Harris and the Democrats are (or at least recently were) proposing a tax on unrealized capital gains. That's utter crap in its deepest form. I recognize that they intend it to apply only to people with net assets > $100M. DO NOT CARE. They are literally defining a hypothetical amount,taxing you on it, and then repeating that year after year. It what possible world is that just? They're considering it a "prepayment" of future capital gains. As if that makes it better. And what happens if the yearly tax on unrealized gains adds up to more than the actual gain? Ooooooh, you get a credit towards future taxes. Great - so you have the privilege of giving the government a large, interest-free loan for potentially decades instead of a single year. Suuuuuuper fair.

From the official Democratic Party platform: "President Biden’s plans will cut taxes for middle-class and low-income Americans – and we’ll finance those cuts by making the ultra-wealthy and big corporations finally start paying their fair share."

Well she's not running on unrealized capital gains. She's running on raising the capital gains rate - and that is actually fair. In terms of people not paying their fair share, Amazon paid $0 in income tax in 2018. Is that their fair share? What do you think their fair share would be.

I agree with you that unrealized capital gains tax is a minefield. First, she's not running on that. Second, unrealized capital gains is a real issue that needs to be tackled thoughtfully, not ignored.

This is an old saw that liberals just love to bring out an polish up every election year. The top 10% pays 75% of the income taxes... but somehow that's still not "their fair share." The Democratic platform on taxes boils down to "Eat The Rich", an idea as old as time, but neither fair nor good. But nobody is talking about simplifying and balancing the tax code; they're only talking about making it more complicated.

Actually she's just talking about changing the percentages.

What do you think I'm joking about? Neither candidate has any interest in reducing the deficit. Other than a few Cultists who somehow think Trump is planning to "pay back the debt" by selling oil or something, no one on the campaign trail is talking about it at all. All they're talking about is new or different ways to spend too much money. The Republicans are still coasting on the conventional historic wisdom that they are the party of reduced government spending - which, like most conventional wisdom, is of course dead wrong, and has been for decades. But the Democrats aren't even bothering to pretend that they won't throw borrowed and printed money at everything under the sun.

The joke is that this is a reason to vote for Trump, who by all accounts would raise the deficit faster (and has a track record of that).

Second only to Trump and the Cult's direct threat to democracy itself, government deficit spending is historically the largest crisis the US is facing. And no one with any political influence cares at all. In fact, they are actively involved in making the problem worse, for their own short-term political gain.

Well I don't agree with you. I'm not sure why you have placed this at such a high position in your own ranking of criticality, but I would invite you to question it.

Shouldn't be subsidized. Period. NOTHING should be subsidized. But if you MUST subsidize something, how about subsidizing something with real, robust energy density, like building modern, high-efficiency nuclear plants?

Not sure why you like nuclear so much. Solar is better than nuclear in basically every way. I know that you cannot power solar literally everywhere and at all times of day. But there are many technologies that leverage solar to generate power when the sun is not shining, including simple things like pumping water up hill and lifting heavy stuff.

Fission is great. I love fission. Nuclear waste and meltdowns are scare tactics that amount to nothing. But fission takes way longer to build and costs more than solar. If you must subsidize something, it actually doesn't make a lot of sense to subsidize fission. Maybe in a few places.

Anyway, this is not a reason to vote for the insane man who loves coal.

Yes, inflation. The pandemic guaranteed there would be unavoidable economic problems, agreed. No one expected to come out of that unscathed. Yes, Trump started the spending. But even when it became clear that inflation was unavoidable, the Biden administration just kept pumping fuel on the fire. Too much, too fast, too long, all while denying that it was happening. You and I have disagreed about the stimulus packages before, and we still do. They overwhelmed already stressed supply chains, they guaranteed that we got pennies on the dollar in infrastructure value, and they radically raised costs for everyone. not just government projects. In late 2019 I was getting ready to gut renovate both bathrooms in my house, which would have cost about $50,000 at that time. Then the pandemic hit and that cost jumped to - not kidding here - $140,000, which is about what I paid for my whole house in 1992. So it didn't happen until 2023, and even then if cost $80,000 - that's 62.5% inflation in 4 years. It put lots of small contractors out of business, because no one could afford to do small projects, and they weren't big enough to grab a slice of that government pie.

So yes, inflation is an issue. It was unavoidable - but it did NOT have to be as bad as the Democrats made it.

You have no real evidence that it was unavoidable. You just suspect that it was unavoidable. Inflation was not 62% in 4 years. The cost of something went up 62% in 4 years, sure. That's not inflation, not in the macroeconomic sense, not in the government monetary policy sense.

We do not get to back through the pandemic and try a different monetary policy. We had to take a shot based on everything we know, and one of the things we knew was that overstimulation could trigger some inflation, but it would not be as painful as collapse. That was the thinking (I remember this being stated explicitly) going into the pandemic recovery. You think we could have done better, I think I'm pretty happy with where we are. What would really trigger inflation would be voting for donald trump. Not just in the sense that his policies would cause inflation (which economists say it will), but in the sense that inflation will not go well under the collapse of the US government, which is what project 2025 represents. Donald's goal is nothing short of full government collapse in favor of a chinese or russian model. And it will drastically damage the post-pandemic economy that I'm relatively happy with right now.

Just told you.

None of that is a basis for voting for pure insanity. Saving a few bucks is not a rational basis for voting for the gay windmill electric boat shark rapist.

The non-Cultist people I know are convinced that tariffs will protect and strengthen US businesses. You and I both know they won't, but that is the belief, and that's why they are willing to vote Trump despite his flaws. They also believe at least some of the Republican machine's hype about both crime and illegal immigrants. These of course range from "based on some truth" to "completely insane total lies". Most of the undecided / centrists I know do not make it anywhere near the upper end of that scale, but they also tend to dismiss that crap as being fringe, rather than distressingly commonly believed.

Get them to watch V for Vendetta or something. The fear mongering over crime is a method of control.