2024 US Presidential Election Thread

[Fezzik]

These people didn’t just drink the Kool-Aid, they’re swimming in it.

 

[Famine]

Fun that the O&CE forum regulars/staff are being called "liberals" right now, when usually it's "conservatives" or "libertarian groupthink".

Half the pre-count posts were libertarian (small "l") posters talking about voting for Harris to stop Trump. Apparently, per one Trumper, I'm a liberal fascist...

It's almost like these clowns don't know the meanings of the othering buzzwords they've been fed.

Problem is most on this forum isn't liberals. They don't support freedom of speech, freedom of opinion and right to life. Some are openly racist, support terrorism and genocide and mods aren't doing anything about it.

This is utter garbage, and smacks of "I got a warning for being a disingenuous dick, so therefore the staff are evil".

The door is in the top-right corner, so use it. We're not forcing you to stay.

Famine I'm not the one that combined my post!

I don't know what this is referring to, and yet it's the most coherent part of your post.

You told two users to board planes to Mexico if they hated the USA so much. One of them is not an American nor resident in the USA.

The wall will keep them from illegally entering without proper papers like it's supposed to be proper and simple!

A tall and curiously specific wall to accomplish that on the aircraft you referred to.

The only thing Obama's flunkies have done is raise the prices on everything and send our tax dollars for one murderer and one crazy guy to blow only to beg for more. How do you think your country will do when you have to start paying your share into NATO. I think all NATO members need to payback payments that Obama was too weak to enforce

Why are you obsessed with Obama? He hasn't been President, or even in politics, for almost eight years...

And the Gish Gallop is amazing, but not effective in text form. Trump was President for four years, 2017-2021. Was he also "too weak to enforce" these NATO payments?

 

[Scaff]

As far as Israel goes my ideal is everybody says it GOD'S chosen people so let's step back and let GOD handle it! It's high time the USA stops playing GOD.

Your god's cool with genocide I see, and no not everybody says "it GOD'S chosen people", only those too stupid to understand that all three religions in the area worshipped the exact same god.

The wall will keep them from illegally entering without proper papers like it's supposed to be proper and simple!

Not how the majority of 'illegals' enter the country, it's also been shown to be defeated with the hi-tech and complex solution of ladders.

The only thing Obama's flunkies have done is raise the prices on everything

Nope, not how inflation works, and they lowered the price on medication in a lot of cases. The government action that will 100% raise prices are Trumps planned tarriffs.

and send our tax dollars for one murderer and one crazy guy to blow only to beg for more.

Oh please do elaborate.

How do you think your country will do when you have to start paying your share into NATO. I think all NATO members need to payback payments that Obama was too weak to enforce

Tell me you don't know how NATO funding works without telling me you know how NATO funding works.

 

[Meythia]

Your god's cool with genocide I see

Lots of that can be found in "his diary". Though in same cases those who commited to his cause more likely were driven by earthly desires that his archenemy would inflict upon weak mortals in the manner of greed or lust.

The words of the diary called bible though are quite different and do not call for racism and discrimation at all, no matter the reason.

 

[DK]

As far as Israel goes my ideal is everybody says it GOD'S chosen people so let's step back and let GOD handle it! It's high time the USA stops playing GOD.
[...]

and send our tax dollars for one murderer and one crazy guy to blow only to beg for more.

Poor little Bonesaw is feeling left out.

 

[Scaff]

Problem is most on this forum isn't liberals. They don't support freedom of speech, freedom of opinion and right to life.

You don't want freedom of speech, you want freedom for the consequences of speech.

Some are openly racist, support terrorism and genocide and mods aren't doing anything about it.

Claims that you 100% can't back up.

This called protest. People should have right to protest. Absolutely the same process was supported by US government in Ukraine and Georgia, absolutely the same process was named coup by Russian federation. Only difference between two is lack of wide support from locals. Practice what you preach.

People shouldn't be charged for simply being protestors, no matter what they protests against. Those who used excessive force or vandalized something should being charged for that, not for freaking seditious conspiracy.

Revisionist history doesn't make it true.

 

[Sprite]

Nobody is holding a gun making you stay so pack your bags and maybe you can catch a flight to Mexico with the illegal border crossers

As has been pointed out I’m not from the USA darling.

I’m good old fashioned British with roots in the Viking Invasions. However to play devils advocate if I was from the USA, I’d have to seriously take a long hard look at my situation and see if I felt the need to move, maybe not from the US but at least from a very Red State to a Blue safe hold.

 

[eran0004]

I am aghast at the number of racist, hateful, and delusional comments I've seen here over the past few weeks.

No you’re not, because you clearly have no problem with electing a President who believes that immigrants are eating the pets of American families.

What you’re aghast at is the fact that your preferred candidate and his supporters are being criticised and ridiculed.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Let me ask you this what do you think GOD tells these murdered children

Nothing, god isn't real, you've been programmed to believe he is, and you don't realise it.

 

[Famine]

Nothing, god isn't real, you've been programmed to believe he is, and you don't realise it.

... and then chose to back the guy who is performative about religion: tear-gassing people out of his way so he can pose by a church with his Bible upside-down, and when even lightly pressed on his favourite passage in it just blusters and burbles his way to "it's all good", and who has had five children with three women, all of whom he's cheated on (first wife with second, second wife with third, third wife with porn star) as well as the rape he was convicted of (having said he wouldn't rape a woman because she wasn't his type - not because he's not a rapist - then subsequently mixing her up with his own wife in a photo of her) and numerous other allegations of sexual assault on adults and children connected to his association with sex trafficker and child sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein.

Man's proclivities are such that he's probably paid for so many abortions in his life that he could fill a whole elementary school grade with targets, but sure he believes in women not killing life that "never had a chance".


Anyone who believes Trump believes in any god except himself, much less their own, is absolutely deluding themselves.

 

[sw3g005]

Well, not some of the newcomers to this thread.

You mean the out-and-proud Trumpers? don’t know if they think Trump is gonna bring forward fascism or if they think Trump is gonna bring something that observers may call fascism (like ”order”, ”values”, ”strong leadership”), but yeah that’s a fair point.

This just comes off as you wanting to criticize without being principled about the critique. You want them to scare people, but it's not what undecided voters care about? Or something? And it doesn't matter that it was for good reason? For some reason.

I honestly can't follow that.

I never said I wanted them to scare people. I said they technically did, whether I wanted them to or not. For you and me, they told about the fears of a future Trump administration for good reason, but the undecided voter may not be you and me. Whether it be because of how they managed their campagin or cuz of undue amounts of billionaire-paid media (or both; wonder if lacking education could also be a factor?), the undecided voter may not be able to spot the difference between the two parties. It’s not right, but if they simply don’t know better I can’t say I would blame them.

Oh, that gamble. They didn't make that gamble. That was not the campaign Harris ran. I don't know where you were, but wherever you were, it wasn't here.

I’ll admit, I didn’t follow her campaign closely. I heard bits and pieces. Thing is though, I think for most people here it didn’t really matter what kinda campaign she ran on (as long as it wasn’t too out there, that is). What mattered was that she wasn’t Trump. Whoever isn’t Trump should get the votes. And as it turned out, that wasn’t enough.

Dick did his own thing. Building a coalition of republicans is a good idea for a centrist, especially when you're campaigning on basically core american values.

It can be a good idea but I think it depends on who you coalesce with. Doing it with Cheney wasn’t a good idea – he may be critical of Trump but I think most people associate him more with his role in the War on Terror than him being critical of Trump. To be fair, I may or may not be overestimating his influence in this election, but I would not be surprised if it was a contributing factor to her defeat.

What you have missed, and I don't know how you've missed it, is that this campaign was about core American values vs. Authoritarianism. That's what the vote was about. It's about that more deeply than any other issue, economy, immigration, none of that held a candle to democracy vs authoritarianism. How do I know? Trump's concepts of a plan were garbage. And he actively undermined compromise on immigration. His supporters know this. They don't care.

It has nothing to do with parties feeling "samey". It was about whether Americans support democracy or authoritarianism, and the answer, loud and clear, is authoritarianism. I think you need to make peace with this. I have been making peace with it for the last decade or so.

...except I never missed that part? Thanks for stating the laughably obvious fact that this election indeed was about democracy vs dictatorship. I think most people here are on the same page on that one. Clearly though, 15-18 million potential voters didn’t feel the same way – they may or may not think a second Trump presidency would be that terrible, but in any case they struggle to like Biden and since Harris was VP, struggle to like her as well.
And the bit about Americans supporting authoritarianism? Uh hello, lower vote turnout? Yes it does imply they’re complicit in their support, but IDK. As I said, blaming the voters goes nowhere and solves nothing. Blaming the people who want them to either not vote or vote for them on the other hand? Blaming the people for not doing a good job attracting voters? That should be where the focus is.
Far-right parties keep getting elected worldwide not cuz the voters has suddenly turned into rabid racists, but its cuz the mainstream parties struggle to effectively lead a country in a way that’s satisfactory. They keep doing a ”managed decline”, but not something like a "managed improvement". Most people aren’t too inclined politically, they just notice what’s going on around them (and what the media says, but that’s another ballgame). If they notice that their surroundings isn’t doing great, and none of the parties except the far-right promise improvements, well guess what. They’ll vote far-right. Yes the far-right doesn’t tend to effectively lead countries either – hence why unless with hefty media manipulation they lose out after a while, but if it’s a recurring cycle, doesn’t that tell more of the far-right's opposition than anything else? That they’re unable to reliably secure leadership beyond maybe one term? It’s like the old Simpsons meme of the Democrats being ”unable to govern”. It's why Hitler won in the 1930s, it's why Trump won now. Voters may not learn from history, but clearly political parties don't learn from history either by the looks of it.

This may have been a looooong ramble (and post). I don't know what else to add so I'll leave it here.