New engines on the way for Singer

[Stotty]

Aircooled, 4.0l, 4 valve heads, 9000rpm, 500bhp... joint project between Singer, Williams and Hanz Mezger. Pure porn

More details here... http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opinion/road-cars/singer-teams-williams-latest-restoration

 

[kikie]

Seems that I have to move house to the US.

I wonder if this new engine is going to be eco friendly so they can export to Europe.

 

[homeforsummer]

Would love to see a narrow-body Singer at some stage. It's the one thing I'm never quite sure about with their cars (excepting some of the unusual colour and trim decisions of individual clients). Narrow body with an engine derived from the one above (I'd settle for less horsepower in a narrower car) would be magic.

Wonder if Williams can do me an alloy-block B6ZE for my MX-5? Think I'd be looking for about 10k rpm, individual throttle bodies...

 

[Stotty]

Singer offer a 3.8l with 300bhp, and a step up from that at 350bhp... just most buyers seem to go for the full on 400bhp 4l.

Plenty of other 'shops' could do you a narrow body car in the Singer style... someone like Tuthill, for example, could build you a perfect long nose narrow bodied 911, with a 3.6l engine and c.300bhp. Would be a lot less expensive than a Singer - c.£250k v c.£750k. You'd also have a lot more room to create something very specific, rather than the 'one size fits all' Singer approach to bodywork... so you could have a pure 912 style narrow body, or the ST look, or an RS/RSR, with any aircooled engine option from a 2.0l up to a full on 3.8.

My dream combo would is a 964 C2 coupe, backdated to ST body work, with a 3.8l engine (c.350bhp & plenty of torque), a 6 speed G50 gearbox (from a 993) and single mass light weight flywheel (from a 993RS). Then a nice 'touring' interior.

 

[Stotty]

Seems that I have to move house to the US.

I wonder if this new engine is going to be eco friendly so they can export to Europe.

If it passes emissions for California, it should meet Euro... doesn't look to have any silencers or cats in the renderings though!

 

[SPhilli911]

Those are the most beautiful renderings I've ever seen. I like the window intake inlets. And that exhaust piping. All of it.

I admit I've never really paid attention to Singer, but that can change. Not a fan of the style, mostly the interior, but also wheels always seem to be slightly too large for a classic 911. The ST look is perfect, but I'd have mine with a normal looking interior and original wheels. But really, I just want the engine.

 

[boiltheocean]

 

[Dennisch]

I wonder if this new engine is going to be eco friendly so they can export to Europe.

Are the emissions laws in Belgium tough for old cars? Here it's the older the car the more it's allowed to poop out. And if it's 73 or older, it can pour out as much as it can.

 

[Stotty]

Are the emissions laws in Belgium tough for old cars? Here it's the older the car the more it's allowed to poop out. And if it's 73 or older, it can pour out as much as it can.

They might look like early 70's 911's, but they are based on a 964, so at best, would be 1990's for registration. Might be there is so little of the original car left you need to register them as 'new'.

 

[homeforsummer]

Singer offer a 3.8l with 300bhp, and a step up from that at 350bhp... just most buyers seem to go for the full on 400bhp 4l.

Plenty of other 'shops' could do you a narrow body car in the Singer style... someone like Tuthill, for example, could build you a perfect long nose narrow bodied 911, with a 3.6l engine and c.300bhp. Would be a lot less expensive than a Singer - c.£250k v c.£750k. You'd also have a lot more room to create something very specific, rather than the 'one size fits all' Singer approach to bodywork... so you could have a pure 912 style narrow body, or the ST look, or an RS/RSR, with any aircooled engine option from a 2.0l up to a full on 3.8.

My dream combo would is a 964 C2 coupe, backdated to ST body work, with a 3.8l engine (c.350bhp & plenty of torque), a 6 speed G50 gearbox (from a 993) and single mass light weight flywheel (from a 993RS). Then a nice 'touring' interior.

The green Tuthill 911 once owned by a certain C. Harris has always struck me as being fairly close to perfection.

It's wider than standard but not quite as extreme as the Singer stuff, it's on fairly sensibly-sized wheels with chunky tyres, has somewhere just north of 300bhp, and a fairly simple, tasteful interior. I might personally be tempted to go for another colour and a slightly more personalised interior, but otherwise this one has always been my barometer for a resto-modded 911. If anything, it's closest to the whole Alfaholics GTA-R thing - slightly less chintz than Singer, but the same focus on engineering.

 

[Dennisch]

They might look like early 70's 911's, but they are based on a 964, so at best, would be 1990's for registration. Might be there is so little of the original car left you need to register them as 'new'.

Ah yes. That sucks, but still plenty of possibilities to use an old registration here.

 

[Stotty]

The green Tuthill 911 once owned by a certain C. Harris has always struck me as being fairly close to perfection.

View attachment 666034​

It's wider than standard but not quite as extreme as the Singer stuff, it's on fairly sensibly-sized wheels with chunky tyres, has somewhere just north of 300bhp, and a fairly simple, tasteful interior. I might personally be tempted to go for another colour and a slightly more personalised interior, but otherwise this one has always been my barometer for a resto-modded 911. If anything, it's closest to the whole Alfaholics GTA-R thing - slightly less chintz than Singer, but the same focus on engineering.

Ah, the 'Green Snotter'

Remember following the build of that. It was an awesome little thing... I think he ended up selling it to a German.

Personally, I'd have mine based on a 964 so I could have power steering, ABS and AC, but that's exactly the right body shape... just wide enough

 

[kikie]

Are the emissions laws in Belgium tough for old cars? Here it's the older the car the more it's allowed to poop out. And if it's 73 or older, it can pour out as much as it can.

Yes. Antwerpen, Gent en Brussel want to ban older diesels (date of manufacture; 1997 and older). Gasoline engines, older than 25 will also be banned. So the Porsche I drove yesterday won't be allowed to enter these cities.

So, a Singer based on a 964 with an original Porsche engine, not the new engine mentioned in the OP, won't be allowed to enter these cities either.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

 

[VXR]

Personally, an Outlaw style take on the 911 with a typically Singer interior and the Singer 4.0 would be my poison.

 

[kikie]

Personally, an Outlaw style take on the 911 with a typically Singer interior and the Singer 4.0 would be my poison.

How would an outlaw styled 911 look like? Legit question because I have no clue.

 

[Stotty]

O.M.G.

What a noise.

Also quite loud!!

 

[VXR]

How would an outlaw styled 911 look like? Legit question because I have no clue.

Something like this on a narrow body 911.

 

[Stotty]

That 356 is utterly gorgeous. I am in love

Here's something that could be considered an outlaw 911.

It's a 912, with a 2.7l engine, 5 speed box and RS interior bits

These boys are really well regarded in the US...

https://www.emorymotorsports.com/outlaws/emory-911-s/146-1967-porsche-912r-outlaw

And these guys in the UK

http://www.911-retro-works.co.uk/index.html

This is one a guy on PH built

Oh, and of course Magnus Walker's cars are also considered 'out law'.

 

[kikie]

View attachment 688751



Something like this on a narrow body 911.

The 356 with a modern engine, modern suspension and electronics would be a perfect car for me personally. The modern parts are probably considered sacrilege.

 

[McLaren]

Have to give a major hand to Singer & their client ownership. I was curious what a second-hand would go for and after searching for a while, it's not only still a pretty penny but incredibly rare; most owners have no desire to let their examples go and those that do are private, unreported sales. I have yet to find an actual dealer offering one on hand. Shows me the cars must truly be something special.

 

[Stotty]

Have to give a major hand to Singer & their client ownership. I was curious what a second-hand would go for and after searching for a while, it's not only still a pretty penny but incredibly rare; most owners have no desire to let their examples go and those that do are private, unreported sales. I have yet to find an actual dealer offering one on hand. Shows me the cars must truly be something special.

The only sale I know of was facilitated by Singer, and the car fetched more than it cost the original owner.

 

[homeforsummer]

These boys are really well regarded in the US...

https://www.emorymotorsports.com/outlaws/emory-911-s/146-1967-porsche-912r-outlaw

The black 356 that @VXR posted is one of Emory's cars.

 

[TexRex]

You will not post or link to content that is obscene or sexually oriented.

 

[McLaren]

The only sale I know of was facilitated by Singer, and the car fetched more than it cost the original owner.

Just found this listed today after our brief discussion.
https://www.classicdriver.com/en/car/porsche/911/1991/496661

I love the Porsche Midnight Blue as well as the glass in the spoiler. Interior is kinda crazy, but I like it surprisingly.

Unfortunately, I can not find a price, but judging by the thread on Rennlist, it appears you can not even get a new one for under $600,000 anymore so I'm betting a half a million on the used market.

 

[Omnis]

Half million. Ha. It's almost worth it to learn to fabricate and find any old 911 chassis to do up.

 

[Stotty]

Just found this listed today after our brief discussion.
https://www.classicdriver.com/en/car/porsche/911/1991/496661

I love the Porsche Midnight Blue as well as the glass in the spoiler. Interior is kinda crazy, but I like it surprisingly.

Unfortunately, I can not find a price, but judging by the thread on Rennlist, it appears you can not even get a new one for under $600,000 anymore so I'm betting a half a million on the used market.

Fabulous colour! DK Engineering usually have an amazing stock list, but never seen a Singer there before.

 

[McLaren]

Half million. Ha. It's almost worth it to learn to fabricate and find any old 911 chassis to do up.

They reportedly build 8-10 cars a year. The the craftsmanship is on par with any other low-volume supercar maker that you can tailor to your heart's desire, hence the high dollar price. Last I read, there's still a year long waiting list as well, so the costs are clearly not bothering those who want them & the reviews on the cars build their reputation.

Given the rising costs of older 911s to begin with and it falls right in line. Otherwise, if you can find a way to match them, you're wasting your time not getting into the industry right now. Others like Paul Stephens Works are trying to capitalize on the same idea as Singer, but they're not on the level of Singer to command the dollar or time. As I've noted above, the fact they rarely ever come onto the 2nd hand market after all these years speaks volumes.

 

[kikie]

$600,000 plus.

Singer or not, exclusivity/handbuild/craftsmanship/Porsche or not. That is just so ridiculous. Being a huge 911 fan, I'm not even remotely considering buying a Singer at that price when I win €150,000,000 with Euromillions.

 

[Stotty]

Actually, they will be a lot much than $600k in Europe once you add the VAT and import duties.

A guy on PH was very close to buying one (went to visit Simger in the UA, species his car), and with a high spec (including the most powerful engine), it was going to be c.£700k... so close to $900k.

Cheaper in the US as tax is a lot lower and you avoid the import duties.

Singer need to open a garage in Europe.