50 dead at Orlando club shooting.

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This is a matter of extermist Islamic people killing.
Is it?

I have yet to see any conclusive evidence to demonstrate that he was acting as an agent of ISIS. In fact, most of the evidence so far suggests that the massacre was motivated by a hatred of homosexuals, in which case the shooter probably has as much in common with ISIS as Dylan Roof; he would quite literally be a terrorist who was coincidentally Muslim.

This man deserves to be remembered and condemned for his crimes - but let's condemn him for the crimes that he actually committed, rather than the crimes that are politically-convenient.
 
Thank you for making it easy for me to discern how much you know about guns, and thus the credibility of your follow up argument as a result of your lack of understanding.
Not sure what this is comment is about. The access to automatic weapons either in this instance or at a mall or on a campus is always part of the issue.

I also believe that when laws fail, federal agencies fail and people fail to stop a person like this man from doing what he did, I have no confidence that more laws will suddenly start working. Murder is illegal everywhere, and he still went and killed 49 people.

He even took two guns into a gun-free zone to do it!
This is a good point that needs to be seriously looked at.
 
You mean like what ISIS has done more on the middle east? Especially Syria?
Are you suggesting that for every Muslim killed, a non-Muslim comes back to life, zombie stylee or something?

If the world was 100% Muslim, and Muslims were killing Muslims, the world would continue to be 100% Muslim. Aside from zombie infidels of course.
 
Are you suggesting that for every Muslim killed, a non-Muslim comes back to life, zombie stylee or something?

If the world was 100% Muslim, and Muslims were killing Muslims, the world would continue to be 100% Muslim. Aside from zombie infidels of course.
No idea what you talking about. What i did know is that ISIS will kill anybody who disagreed with them, Moslem or not. Since their basis is in the Moslem population, you know the rest.

Take this more on the ISIS thread.
 
Is it?

I have yet to see any conclusive evidence to demonstrate that he was acting as an agent of ISIS. In fact, most of the evidence so far suggests that the massacre was motivated by a hatred of homosexuals, in which case the shooter probably has as much in common with ISIS as Dylan Roof; he would quite literally be a terrorist who was coincidentally Muslim.

This man deserves to be remembered and condemned for his crimes - but let's condemn him for the crimes that he actually committed, rather than the crimes that are politically-convenient.

Are you delusional, simple matter is the USA, Europe and other places are all known to be infected with multiple groups of terror cells. Call them radicals, call them extremists or whatever you want. Yes thats right he was a muslim, was he brainwashed, was he fanatical, was he mentally unstable or was he doing something he wanted to do for a long time?

It does not matter if the guy was acting directly under orders or by his own hatred to others. What fuelled his attack was based on his understanding of his faith and his obsession. He, like others was not shouting die die die to people or laughing like a lunatic no he was doing such in honour of his god. HELLO, yet the media will not label ANY of these attacks as such. Nor will they in many cases even mention the attacker as "Muslim".

What some people do not realise or fully grasp the significance including atheists is that for these men they are doing such based on it being a sacrifice to their god. For them it is an honour or an act of destiny going towards a cause greater than their own life.

The easiest non religious example I can give is just as many soldiers in times of war will act and fight for their country. You can dissect this attacker as mentally unstable, an extremist but for these men they have probably fantasised about doing such for a long time. Just as a soldier is trained to act and behave towards his role and his duty. This attack will only fuel another and another and another it does not matter if it is a lone person because their are religious groups promoting such actions and uprisings. This is only the beginning wots to stop such attacks becoming weekly, or even daily. This is not just a group of people terrorists doing such to regain land of their forefathers like say the IRA did in Ireland/UK it is a global attack on other peoples lifestyles / freedoms who are seen as an enemy to their own religious cause and laws.

Looking through this thread people try to break it down with reason and intellect or focus on the weapon used. The media is so controlled these days and we all have to act with such PC. Gun control, gun control, gun control, the trigger does not pull it self. If an attacker wants to use chemical weapons, a flame thrower, working in a bar/restaurant and poison people. Go to a hardware store and buy a chainsaw, a drill a nail gun. The method is not the killer...

Other religious groups that do not condone the attack or sickeningly praise such inc christian pastors are clearly not acting as Christians. So for those that want to then highlight such and attack that religion, sorry they do not represent the bible or the word of god that the usa foundations was built upon. The great nation is gone because the great nation is no longer great nor holds the christian values that it once did to the one and almighty GOD. The christian should love the sinner but hate the sin and really it all comes down to the rise in evil across the globe.

The world is a sick place and things will continue to get worse.
Satan knows his time is short....

Welcome to living in the last generation!!!
 
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I checked back in to see what happens with the gtp on an event like this and you all (almost all) disappoint me.


This isn't a matter of guns.

This is a matter of extermist Islamic people killing.

Gun Control: Pretty sure the people of France learned what gun laws should have prevented last year.

Wake Up, you (for lack of a term that is AUP acceptable) Fools.

These psychos will not stop until Men rule the world, women are subjugated, homosexuals don't exist, and any non-Muslim is dead.

They will not stop.
They have not tolerance.

Hello, Mr. Tinfoil Hat!

There actually have been quite a few articles out that are saying the evidence points to him being a closeted homosexual and suffering abuse from his wife and his father.
 
Wots to say you should trust the media, politicians, officials or indeed government.
It will all get controlled and used for their own agendas.
 
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Not sure what this is comment is about. The access to automatic weapons either in this instance or at a mall or on a campus is always part of the issue.
Do you mean fully automatic weapons that are illegal to own or purchase (i.e. a gun that he wasnt able to obtain because no one is outside of the military?)

Or do you mean semi-automatic, like most hand guns, shotguns and non-AR style rifles are?

I ask because you sound like you have no idea what you're talking about, hence my original comment.
 
Are you delusional...

The world is a sick place and things will continue to get worse.
Satan knows his time is short....

Welcome to living in the last generation!!!

🤬 that. I have children to raise, and we are not living in the last generation due to a rise in the prospect in difficulties. We have the ability to control our future, and regret of failure is our only restraint. If the world is sick, help cure it. Or at least, help out in the morgue.

You folks hoping for an end to it all can go put yourself out to the curb and get out of our way. Divine intervention will never happen whether we will or want it to be so or not; change will happen by human hands whenever possible. To idly proclaim its end is foolish anarchy based in fairy tales and pointless to say the least.

If you wish for a world that honors destructive toys before the lives of others, there's nothing I can say that will change your mind. However, you say you fear government and detest the so-called sheep, but in fact, you fear the ire and exclusion of fellow gun-owners. By my estimation...that makes the rabid gun owners the sheeple.

So until we do nothing about it, and declare making changes a "failure" before even attempting the possibility of a greater good, dwell in this: hopefully we can all assemble together for the next Current Events & Opionions thread which deals with the next mass-shooting, without any personal anguish, if we should be so lucky.

It's time for common sense, not fear-mongering and selfish idiocy.

I'm not answering to any replies, so don't bother.
 
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So yeah, I guess you're right. Your opinion doesn't matter. You don't like guns, you're upset and emotional over a bunch of people who died further away than those who die every day in Mexico at the hands of cartels just south of us. You know nothing about this topic, and you come in here with no research and try to shame people who LIVE this. Yeah, I guess in this regard I don't really care what it is you have to say until you open up your mind, do your research, maybe even fire a gun (hell, I'll take you to the range). And if you still don't like guns, I will have all the more respect for your opinion.
I just don't like them, or anything that is designed to end a human being's life, period. End of story for me.
 
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Is it?

I have yet to see any conclusive evidence to demonstrate that he was acting as an agent of ISIS. In fact, most of the evidence so far suggests that the massacre was motivated by a hatred of homosexuals, in which case the shooter probably has as much in common with ISIS as Dylan Roof; he would quite literally be a terrorist who was coincidentally Muslim.

This man deserves to be remembered and condemned for his crimes - but let's condemn him for the crimes that he actually committed, rather than the crimes that are politically-convenient.
Okay. So, final conclusion from you, is it a #nothingtodowithIslam?
 
Hello, Mr. Tinfoil Hat!

There actually have been quite a few articles out that are saying the evidence points to him being a closeted homosexual and suffering abuse from his wife and his father.

That's probably why the FBI interviewed him so many times and why he was yelling allah ackbar (or however it's spelled) and pledging allegiance to ISIS in his 911 call during the event. That makes sense.

Gotta say, you really got me there.
 
That's probably why the FBI interviewed him so many times and why he was yelling allah ackbar (or however it's spelled) and pledging allegiance to ISIS in his 911 call during the event. That makes sense.

Gotta say, you really got me there.
Yes, he has been investigated. Yes, he did pledge to ISIS during his 911 call. But does that mean that a terror attack was his modus operandi? No one knows for sure, but the evidence does seem to point towards the closeted gay thing.
 
Yes, he has been investigated. Yes, he did pledge to ISIS during his 911 call. But does that mean that a terror attack was his modus operandi? No one knows for sure, but the evidence does seem to point towards the closeted gay thing.

The evidence points towards him being an extremist islamic terrorist who just happened to be a closeted homosexual, not the other way around.

Keep in mind, that's not seeming to be the case because evidence points that way... It is the case because that's what the evidence shows. Plain and simple.

If you want to re-interpret the evidence feel free but it's not going to change the facts.
 
The evidence points towards him being an extremist islamic terrorist who just happened to be a closeted homosexual, not the other way around.

Keep in mind, that's not seeming to be the case because evidence points that way... It is the case because that's what the evidence shows. Plain and simple.

If you want to re-interpret the evidence feel free but it's not going to change the facts.
I would suggest re-reading the past three pages, Kent. A lot of the comments and news breaking has been about his homosexuality.

Omar visited gay chatrooms before the attack.

As mentioned before, he frequented the nightclub that he shot up. Pulse is a gay nightclub, to boot.

So while he did claim to be allied with ISIS, it seems like he more or less carried out the attack over his sexuality.
 
The evidence points towards him being an extremist islamic terrorist who just happened to be a closeted homosexual, not the other way around.
I've highlighted the key phrase in bold - "points towards". Right now, it's inconclusive; you could make the case either way. The "self-loathing closeted gay man" theory is clearly considered strong enough for the authorities to dedicate resources towards investigating it. Like I said, condemn him for his crimes - but only the crimes that he committed, not the crimes that fulfil a political agenda.
 
I've highlighted the key phrase in bold - "points towards". Right now, it's inconclusive; you could make the case either way. The "self-loathing closeted gay man" theory is clearly considered strong enough for the authorities to dedicate resources towards investigating it. Like I said, condemn him for his crimes - but only the crimes that he committed, not the crimes that fulfil a political agenda.

Argue politics all you want, I'm not here for that, I'm simply stating the obvious and you don't agree. It's that simple.

But don't confuse my opinion about a threat to most of the world with a cliche political agenda. As far as I'm concerned everyone in the world who is not a fundamentalist muslim extremist should be concerned about that threat.

Frankly, I think it's people like you who are more worried about the politics than the events. I don't want anyone dying, those crazies who are throwing homosexuals off buildings as a death sentence supported by their islamic laws are killing people for their religion. If you can't cope with that it's ok but don't try to act like they aren't doing it.

In the case of this nut in Orlando, if it walks like a duck...

I would suggest re-reading the past three pages, Kent. A lot of the comments and news breaking has been about his homosexuality.

Omar visited gay chatrooms before the attack.

As mentioned before, he frequented the nightclub that he shot up. Pulse is a gay nightclub, to boot.

So while he did claim to be allied with ISIS, it seems like he more or less carried out the attack over his sexuality.

I'm not saying he wasn't gay. I'm not saying he wasn't crazy.

I am saying that being a closeted homosexual must difficult but can't be so bad that he had to go kill 50 people and injure many more.

Think about it... Why wouldn't he just kill himself? Why would he think the answer is to kill them and not the other way around?

It's clear to me that he wanted to purge others, not himself and I'm not sure he got that idea all on his own... I get the feeling he picked up that approach from a certain religious philosophy that specifically calls for death sentences to homosexuals.
 
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I'm simply stating the obvious and you don't agree. It's that simple.
No, it's not that simple. You're not stating the obvious, you're jumping to a conclusion. Where is the evidence that definitely proves that the shooter was motivated by Islamic fundamentalism? So far, all you have is an allegation that he said something during a 911 call; meanwhile, the authorities are still going through the process of investigating and have not confirmed his motive.
 
No, it's not that simple. You're not stating the obvious, you're jumping to a conclusion. Where is the evidence that definitely proves that the shooter was motivated by Islamic fundamentalism? So far, all you have is an allegation that he said something during a 911 call; meanwhile, the authorities are still going through the process of investigating and have not confirmed his motive.

Fine, you win.
This event had nothing to do with Islam.
Happy?

You sure I'm the one worried about politics here?
Again, if it walks like a duck... This time it's about you and politics though. lol.

Btw, if you are waiting on "the authorities" to explain why he did this then you're probably a fool since those are the same authorities who thought to investigate him more than once for extremism and still managed to let him legally purchase firearms.
Seriously dude, think about it for a minute and ask yourself if you should trust the FBI, ATF, or any federal agency to give an honest answer to any of the questions at hand.
 
No, but 280 people were affected by 2 pressure cookers in Boston. Maybe we can ban those next since they seem to be item of choice when it comes to bombing people.

Yes, because everyone and their mother knows how to use pressure cookers as explosives.

I understand the fun of owning guns to shoot stuff (not really, I don't and America's gun culture really contributes to that aspect, as I'm guessing if Americans were born somewhere else, their innate "I NEED TO SHOOT STUFF" gene wouldn't trigger), but you are comparing a pressure cooker, and every day item, to something designed to hurt and kill.
 
Yes, because everyone and their mother knows how to use pressure cookers as explosives.

And that's the logic that will have the internet shut down... Because yeah, no one knows how to make weapons like that but everyone knows where to find out how (and obviously the feds are such idiots that they don't care if you try).
 
And that's the logic that will have the internet shut down... Because yeah, no one knows how to make weapons like that but everyone knows where to find out how (and obviously the feds are such idiots that they don't care if you try).

And you think people actually bother? Because our dead shooter didn't bother. He just took the easy route.

Pardon the example, but if I want a sandwich, I won't bother going to a grocery store to buy the ingredients. Some will, some won't. Imagine how many people would have gone on a killing spree if they had an assault rifle readily accessible to them.

Will it stop mass murders? Of course not. Will it reduce them? I'm guessing yes. Is it worth it to remove an American past-time because of it? That's a whole different question. Personally I don't care because I luckily don't live in America and this is an argument that never comes up over here.

And may I add: it's kind of funny how the "should we ban guns" argument comes up in America, but the "should we own guns" argument never comes up in Argentina. If anything, the argument that does come up is "why should I go to jail for killing a robber" (when not in self-defense, ironically).
 
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I just don't them, or anything that is designed to end a human being's life, period. End of story for me.

Very well, but there are plenty of people who do. People who keep them in a safe and fire them once a month at paper. These people dont want to be criminalized based on the actions of one person and the reactions of people who dont understand anything about their hobby.

In my mind, blindly disliking something is called prejudice. The same thing we see against people of religions and races become the victim of. In fact:

prej·u·dice
ˈprejədəs/
noun
  1. 1.
    preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.
    "English prejudice against foreigners"
    synonyms: preconceived idea, preconception,prejudgment
    "male prejudices about women"
 
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Fine, you win.
This event had nothing to do with Islam.
Happy?
No, because I didn't say that. What I said is that we don't know what motivated him. We can make the case that it was Islamic extremism, or we can make the case that it was an attacked aimed at the gay community. The point is that we don't know yet, and so making assumptions about it is both premature and dangerous.
 
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