50 dead at Orlando club shooting.

[Mr Latte]

All very good @ECGadget but you avoided the question didnt you...

Jews did not invade anyone to get the land so lets be clear about that, the German reference is rather silly.
To be fair Jews are not spending millions digging tunnels neither rather than improving the lives of their own people. Unlike Israel whos economy is booming whos advances in all sciences in recent years has been remarkable for a small country and one in the 21st century which accepts all cultures inc gays etc and abides by human and equal rights to women and children. Sorry but I dont see the Jews doing anything wrong and they certainly are not chanting or holding meetings in the streets shouting death to anyone.

The point you make obvious is an angst against Israel/Jews and that religion is still a factor to you.
However wasnt it the romans who named Israel Philistine?

Dont worry friend it is not personal just different views however I struggle to understand why jesus is in your own religious book @ 5x more than mohammed.

 

[Blood Eagle]

For all intents and purposes, neither is safer.

To be honest, I feel like removing the assault rifles/assault-style rifles might cut down the accessibility to such dangerous weaponry and powerful ammo. Or maybe chamber everyrhing in .22 LR which isn't as lethal.

Not sure if you know this or not but a 5.56 mm round or a .223 which are the standard chambers of AR15s are actual .22 caliber rounds. In other words, you can fire a .22 LR out of an AR chambered in either 5.56/.223 as the inside diameter of the barrel of something chambered in 5.56/.223 or .22 LR both measure .224. They make drop in .22 LR conversions to convert your average AR into a .22 LR. This could pose a problem with your idea.

 

[CodeRedR51]

The point is, the people want them banned dont care because they dont see the difference. All they see is a scary black gun. They see no logic.

I see something that doesn't have logical use outside military applications.

 

[Sanji Himura]

Your expertise astonishes as always but the problem with your narrative is that you forgot to source the reason for the media being misled...

It still pushes a narrative. Liberals here in the US want the "assault rifle" ban that was passed in the Clinton years to be back in force. Any excuse by either the government or the media to vilify one of the most well known semiautomatic rifles in the US, and they are going to take it.

 

[mister dog]

@Mr Latte holy books are like cars, most people use them to get around in life but in the hands of an idiot they can turn into murder weapons.

@mister dog
So is the extremist in your view the devote follower or to be more accurate accepting the submission the faith demands putting it first before reason or acting civilised. If what he/she is doing can be found in the religious texts? For example if specific lifestyles of people or indeed religions of others are mentioned with reference to violent acts towards them, can that really be taken as cryptic? Surely the highest people within the faith understand and translate into action what is meant/expected if indeed it is not clear enough or is the religious text always so cryptic in such serious matters as murdering others?

If you look at what is happening, it seems they don't even know themselves. One Imam preaches love and understanding and ignores the violent and hateful verses (which definitely appear in the Koran), whilst the other focuses just on that and leaves out the peaceful part. It's a big mess indeed, and to me this proves that all religions are inherently flawed that way, and just serve to boost ego's and human agendas.

Be it about baking a cake for gay couple or other it is clear that staunch old school strict christianity is under attack. More liberal or modern churches seem to accept many things against what the religion says so it is all a mess really or is it part of something larger?

Exact same situation with the inherent contradiction of holy books; but because of 500 years of gradual reformation there is less of a base for extremist Christians to start acting violently IMO.

How long do you think before Jews will have their temple in Israel, worship on a friday, the muslims on a saturday and the christians on a Sunday. Is this part of the plan for the world equality goal?
Acts of terror like this one only further the push towards chrislam happening and faiths combining into acceptable differences but the same god under the brolly of equality for those that want to be lets say religious.

That will never ever happen i'm afraid. Because the followers of any of those 3 religions all seem to think they are the ones that actually follow the word of god, and the other 2 are doing it wrong. Ego's are to great to realize that the 3 all stem from the same base and it just depends on which desert clan wrote it down back in the day and relates better to their nationality.

The problem is the so called muslim extremist groups that may or may not be the devoted ones are playing right into the hands of the global agenda. So they themselves will continue to be separated by the media from the religion they kill others for. Instead their actions actually go towards the issues of gun control, further security, loss of cival rights all bringing even greater sympathy from the general public to accept changes in law giving them even greater control over our lives and privacy.

True, but like with the car example i started out with, they need to focus on the nutjobs in particular that pose the danger, and remove those from our societies instead of banning everything. America could use stricter gun laws though IMO because anyone that loses their minds there (doesn't even have to be related to religious reasons), just has to pull a trigger and is able to kill dozens of innocent people in no time. But that's another discussion.

 

[Dan]

The point is, the people want them banned dont care because they dont see the difference. All they see is a scary black gun. They see no logic.

Why do you need a rifle like this? You aren't defending your house from twenty to thirty robbers at once. You aren't hunting thirty animals at once. You sure as hell won't be defending a shopping mall, concert, school/college campus, or any other large group of people with this strapped to your back. Why do people need high-capacity rifles?

 

[Snaeper]

I see something that doesn't have logical use outside military applications.

Thats what you are more than welcome to believe. I've come to understand that you (and a lot of others) think an AR-15 and M16 are the same despite having a few significant differences that alter lethality to a great degree.

There are plenty of guns that are more dangerous than an AR-15 that would still be legal if AR-15's and similar guns to it get banned.

What is your suggestion then?

Why do you need a rifle like this? You aren't defending your house from twenty to thirty robbers at once. You aren't hunting thirty animals at once. You sure as hell won't be defending a shopping mall, concert, school/college campus, or any other large group of people with this strapped to your back. Why do people need high-capacity rifles?

Go to a gun range, rent one and try it out.

 

[TenEightyOne]

It still pushes a narrative.

In your head? The media (whose "fail" you reported as part of your own narrative, surely?) reported the gun type as informed by ATF. That's not a biased narrative, quite the opposite... it's factual journalism.

 

[Obelisk]

Not sure if you know this or not but a 5.56 mm round or a .223 which are the standard chambers of AR15s are actual .22 caliber rounds. In other words, you can fire a .22 LR out of an AR chambered in either 5.56/.223 as the inside diameter of the barrel of something chambered in 5.56/.223 or .22 LR both measure .224. They make drop in .22 LR conversions to convert your average AR into a .22 LR. This could pose a problem with your idea.

I know .223s are the same. The difference is in powder load. .22 LR is a lot weaker than a .223 is, and won't kill in one shot unless you hit someone in the head or in a very critical part of the body (lungs, heart, etc). Or I could be mixing up .22 LR with a weaker round.

 

[Blood Eagle]

I know .223s are the same. The difference is in powder load. .22 LR is a lot weaker than a .223 is, and won't kill in one shot unless you hit someone in the head or in a very critical part of the body (lungs, heart, etc). Or I could be mixing up .22 LR with a weaker round.

I understand the lethality argument but what I'm saying is you don't need to alter an AR much to conform to your .22 LR requirement. There are more guns than just AR15s that shoot .223/5.56. A Mini 14 is a shining example of this. Not scary to look at in stock form by any means but is a semi auto rifle that shoots a .223/5.56, is gas operated, accepts a detachable magazine and is shoulder fired. You can easily make one into something scary looking. To single out a specific caliber or calibers and specific guns that share common functionality with ANY other firearm is absurd to me.

 

[Obelisk]

I understand the lethality argument but what I'm saying is you don't need to alter an AR much to conform to your .22 LR requirement. There are more guns than just AR15s that shoot .223/5.56. A Mini 14 is a shining example of this. Not scary to look at in stock form by any means but is a semi auto rifle that shoots a .223/5.56, is gas operated, accepts a detachable magazine and is shoulder fired. You can easily make one into something scary looking. To single out a specific caliber or calibers and specific guns that share common functionality with ANY other firearm is absurd to me.

I think I was trying to say rifles in general. There are semi-auto rifles you can buy legally that are chambered in .30-06 or 7.62 rounds and I think you can even get one of those .50 BMGs in a few states.

 

[lxmmy]

To be fair Jews are not spending millions digging tunnels neither rather than improving the lives of their own people. Unlike Israel whos economy is booming whos advances in all sciences in recent years

Missing the bit about how Israel has a huge arsenal of Nuclear weapons and haven't signed the Treaty of the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear weapons. Please answer the question on why they are still producing missiles?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Explosives propelled and thrown and even Bombs.

If I wanted I could legally own those, sadly I can't afford to pay the annual tax to have a few grenades in a box and show off to people said trinkets. Cause that's about all they're good for to those who own them. I think I've told you before to look up the laws for the U.S. (like many others) before giving out open comments on a subject. I can also own a military jeep, humvee, Sherman tank. It's about having the right paperwork and money to do such things, and even if they were easily accessible, the second factor is what stops people from say...getting a easily legal .50 cal rifle and sitting 500 yards away along some highway chunking cars during a rush hour. Or any other sinister plot with heavy arms that you'll use as an excuse to put guns out of the hands of many if not all.

Even though I could easily build a bomb with the back grown knowledge I have, and not pay half of what I would have to get the permit for a simple set of grenades or a surplus RPG7.

I see something that doesn't have logical use outside military applications.

Already explained the uses in a prior post, being obtuse propels the conversation where exactly? @Dan this applies to you as well, as I and others have explained what the reason and uses are in prior posts. If you missed them then go back but the logic you're running on is that every owner purposely uses 30 round clips every time they fire them...

How would Hillary send her emails?!

Secret smoke signal server.

 

[Dotini]

The funny thing is this incident is looking like it has nothing to do with either guns or radical Islamic terrorism. It's strictly a gay thing. Turns out he was closeted gay all along, frequenting gay bars and being denounced by his own wife and homophobic father for being gay. His internally unresolved conflicts finally prompted him to the external resolution of proclaiming fealty to ISIS and shooting down a building full of gays with a legally obtained gun. He probably felt he was the victim and the others were merely cyphers in his psychodrama.

 

[Obelisk]

The funny thing is this incident is looking like it has nothing to do with either guns or radical Islamic terrorism. It's strictly a gay thing. Turns out he was closeted gay all along, frequenting gay bars and being denounced by his own wife and homophobic father for being gay. His internally unresolved conflicts finally prompted him to the external resolution of proclaiming fealty to ISIS and shooting down a building full of gays with a legally obtained gun. He probably felt he was the victim and the others were merely cyphers in his psychodrama.

You just know someone is going to be a major homophobe and root for this guy doing this, now that we know the MO.

 

[CodeRedR51]

What is your suggestion then?

Doesn't matter what I think now does it?

You just know someone is going to be a major homophobe and root for this guy doing this, now that we know the MO.

Oh it's happening. There are church pastors praising it left and right already.

 

[Obelisk]

Doesn't matter what I think now does it?

Oh it's happening. There are church pastors praising it left and right already.

 

[Danoff]

PS: gun control must now be enforced by forbidding all semi-auto sales

Next time some old guy drives a Buick into a market full of people remind me to claim that Buicks should be banned.

 

[DK]

C'mon, anyone who still remembers the Westboro Baptist Church will know there's plenty of fundamentalist Christians out there who think this massacre is God's judgement or some rubbish like that.

 

[Dennisch]

Ban all the guns sounds just as ridiculous as ban all the Muslims.

2 cents. ~ish.

 

[Blood Eagle]

Ban all the guns sounds just as ridiculous as ban all the Muslims.

2 cents. ~ish.

To use @Dotini's verbiage about the shooter, I think we should ban internally unresolved conflicts in people's minds. This would end all gun violence and is about as attainable as the idea of banning all guns.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Doesn't matter what I think now does it?

Oh it's happening. There are church pastors praising it left and right already.

Sources please.

 

[Dennisch]

To use @Dotini's verbiage about the shooter, I think we should ban internally unresolved conflicts in people's minds. This would end all gun violence and is about as attainable as the idea of banning all guns.

 

[JKgo]

...I've been reading about the ordeal the club goers had to go through and wow, I truly feel for them. It must've been a hell on earth. A big thank you to the law enforcement officers and the brave folks at the scene. This could have ended up far worse.

As for banning guns... I'm totally against as I see no logic in owning assault rifles privately - the cost seem too impractical to me. Having said that, I'm a bit partial to handguns, revolvers mostly, so there's that...

 

[ukfan758]

Sources please.

Although I'm not the one making the claim, this sick Sacramento pastor praised it:
http://www.abc10.com/news/local/sac...ist-pastor-praises-orlando-massacre/243211965

 

[Northstar]

I just hope a certain church from Kansas doesn't make any appearances at funerals (they have already "celebrated" the shootings).

 

[Mr Latte]

Missing the bit about how Israel has a huge arsenal of Nuclear weapons and haven't signed the Treaty of the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear weapons. Please answer the question on why they are still producing missiles?

Well officially they have never admitted to having them.
In history has a signed agreement ever stopped anything wots your point?

Money is flowing into Israel all that new gas in the med and oil in the Golan, heh give a wave to Putin sitting waiting in Syria. I wonder if that is a good reason to consider a few extra military resources or ISIS only over the border. Yet Israel does not neglect its people for an objective to murder others.

Look at the Iran deal the Iranians never signed it, so does that make things even?

Israel has always defended itself and targeted threats on its borders as it has a right to protect all its multicultural citizens. Just like any other civilised democracy has or would be expected to react against known aggressors only miles away.

No point continuing this and is going off the topic.....

 

[CodeRedR51]

Sources please.

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/06/the...y-celebrating-the-orlando-nightclub-massacre/

 

[Tornado]

Next time some old guy drives a Buick into a market full of people remind me to claim that Buicks should be banned.

I've been saying that ever since GM shut down Pontiac.

 

[Snaeper]

Doesn't matter what I think now does it?

If thats what you've gathered from all this, then Im sorry.

The point being, you ban "Assault Weapons" and there are still other non-Assault Weapons that are available that are just as deadly. Because guns are deadly. They require responsibility to use.