9-11, conspiracy, silly thread made by me. Whoop whoop.
- Thread starter TopHat
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I have a cool picture around here... I ought to scan it just for show.
It's my wife and I (back when we were dating and I was living in NYC) on the WTC roof... awesome day, by the way. Picture was taken on August 28th 2001... just two weeks prior!
It's my wife and I (back when we were dating and I was living in NYC) on the WTC roof... awesome day, by the way. Picture was taken on August 28th 2001... just two weeks prior!
- 12,486
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as McLaren said.
The Empire State observation deck is probably the most famous in NYC, but the WTC also used to have, and I think the Chrysler Building has one too. But the one in WTC was to the actual top of the building, whereas the Empire State, Chrysler Building and Sears Tower (Chicago) still have some floors after the observation deck.
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Did you throw any marbles of the top??
There were signs all over saying you shouldn't... and guards making sure people didn't. But if you looked off the side you wouldn't look straight down to the ground... the deck is much smaller than the whole floor, so you'd need a strong arm to throw something off the top, and since smaller kids are the ones that usually go for that, I guess no one did.
McLaren
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Doesn't the Rockefeller Building allow you to go up as well?
While funny, I believe there's a gigantic fine if you're caught. Possibly small jail time.Did you throw any marbles of the top??
- 1,250
I think all of the things happening in the US today is part of a conspiracy. All scripted to keep the publics attention from the dictators of America: The US Congress.
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Ironically, the chief targets of many conspiracy theories - the current administration and their related cronies - seem to think that they can actually achieve a level of control which is frankly beyond them. Take a look at the Wolfowitz Doctrine, for example. The general ideas behind it (and the majority of NeoCon thinking) involve maintaining US supremacy and tackling potential security risks to the US, even before they actually exist (or were ever going to!) - unsurprisingly, it's not a million miles from the Bush Doctrine, which has been played out for real in Iraq. The only problem with this idea - that total control can be achieved - is that it really isn't that difficult to prove them horribly wrong. 9/11 was a barbaric act - but it required no weapons more sophisticated than a collection of silverware to actually do it. No matter how many scenarios the government might envisage, and no matter how much they may actually be trying (and I don't doubt that they are) to control our perception of international events, the reality is that they cannot foresee or prevent every eventuality. If they believe that they can, then they are misguided. And if we vote for them because we believe that they can, then we are even more misguided than they are.
- 1,202
Other things that would have significant effect would be what floor the fire is on, and how well insulated the structure is (and, of course the material used as a load bearing member, which could be, for instance, steel reinforced concrete as opposed to steel beams).
Assuming the supporting structure is being weakened by the fire, then the number of floors above it will affect the chance of collapse. The more floors, the more weight and therefore the more strain is on the weakened structure.
Also, how widespread the fire is. If it is burning for a long time but is more or less moving along a front, a bit like a forest fire, then it might do less structural damage than a fire which burns the whole area at once.
All speculation, of course. I know nothing about the Madrid building you refer to, but your point has given give me food for thought. Nearly all the accidents where commercial size jets crashing into building that I know of involved low buildings of a few floors, so aren't really comparable.
Still, I'm 100% sure that the twin towers collapsed because someone flew a passenger jet into each one, and that there was no other helping hand.
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I just did a bit of a search on that
Here are a few images of the building burning
BBC News report
CNN
and an image of the building after the fire.
The building was 29 stories high, and the fire started out in the 21st floor. In the end floors 21-29 collapsed on top of the rest, and the structure didn't fall.
Here are a few images of the building burning
BBC News report
CNN
and an image of the building after the fire.
The building was 29 stories high, and the fire started out in the 21st floor. In the end floors 21-29 collapsed on top of the rest, and the structure didn't fall.
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- Frankfort, KY
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- FoolKiller1979
Looking through these links I can point you to the most obvious difference.
In reference to the WTC towers the difference is the difference between setting your hand on a paper cup (it holds the weight) and slamming your hand down on the paper cup (it collapses). See in WTC1 there were 30 floors that fell down five floors (~50 feet) before impacting with the next solid floor. WTC2 was even more floors falling. The situation you are posting is a case of floors crumbling down to the floor below. The force is extremely different.BBC story
Looking at the image from after the fire you can see that the floors that have slumped aren't completely collapsed, just the area where the fire was located is. Also, it shows what appears to be reinforced concrete pillars, not just steel. Huge difference.
Now, in the case of WTC7 it had severe structural damage along with the fire. To make a fair comparison we would have to throw a wrecking ball through the building in Madrid a couple of times and then increase the heat.
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There was no firefighting done in WTC7 at all. Also, several tenants in WTC7 had emergency generators located in an upper mechanical space, fueled by diesel tanks in the basement. There is strong evidence that at least one of these generators was destroyed by debris early in the day, breaking its fuel line. In the resulting fire, the fuel tank in the basement emptied itself by pumping several thousand gallons of diesel fuel up to the destroyed generator. Although diesel is not explosive, it does burn steadily at atmospheric pressure. Surely this made the unfought fires worse.
Also, because of a large, atruium-style lobby at the ground floor of WTC7, most of the structural load from the tower above was concentrated into a small number of very large columns - I forget the exact number, but it was less than 10, and more like 6. More than one of these critical columns was heavily damaged by falling debris and aircraft parts (at least one of the engines definitely went through the main WTC tower and fell through the roof of WTC7). There was not enough structural redundancy to survive the damage the building took as a combination of the initial impacts, the resulting fires, and the seismic action of the giant demolition that had occurred directly next door.
Also, because of a large, atruium-style lobby at the ground floor of WTC7, most of the structural load from the tower above was concentrated into a small number of very large columns - I forget the exact number, but it was less than 10, and more like 6. More than one of these critical columns was heavily damaged by falling debris and aircraft parts (at least one of the engines definitely went through the main WTC tower and fell through the roof of WTC7). There was not enough structural redundancy to survive the damage the building took as a combination of the initial impacts, the resulting fires, and the seismic action of the giant demolition that had occurred directly next door.
- 1,382
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It was designed to take a hit from a 707 if I remember correctly and not multiple ones. It was not designed to withstand whatever kind of monstrosity of a plane that hit it.The people who make these videos are nuts, they want to brain wash you. There is not solid proof of anything except 2 planes hit and two towers fell. Trust me if there was a conspiracy the media would be all over it.
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- Axidwulv
I just watched this and i must say, the way the US and the world is heading, something needs to be done.
The whole North American Union thing is just insane! Why would we want that? Seriously.
And microchips? Sure it might make things easier.. But at the same time it will cause more problems.
And that one thing about how if the government labels you as a terrorist they can enter your house take you and anything you own and torture you.. That scares me. Alot.
The whole North American Union thing is just insane! Why would we want that? Seriously.
And microchips? Sure it might make things easier.. But at the same time it will cause more problems.
And that one thing about how if the government labels you as a terrorist they can enter your house take you and anything you own and torture you.. That scares me. Alot.
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- FoolKiller1979
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Maybe thats what the government wants you to think.
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- Cribanox
I actually read through this whole thread, because I watched the zeigeist part with religion and then the parts about americas central banking system, and maybe 1 or two posts were made about those, the rest were about how the 9/11 conspiracies are crap. The video only makes a small mention about 9/11 and only suggests that it was a conspiracy.
The video is not loose change, in fact zeigeist suggests that 9/11 may or may not have been -allowed to happen-. Watch the video folks.
The video is not loose change, in fact zeigeist suggests that 9/11 may or may not have been -allowed to happen-. Watch the video folks.
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- DismissiveClOCK
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Good call, Keef - and I'm more than happy to oblige.
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