A Quantum Leap

[machschnel]

Gran Turismo, as a series, has many fixable issues, but for what ever reason they have been neglected time and time again. So imagine my surprise when I log on to GTPlanet and see the title "A Quantum Leap". I don't even bother to finish reading the title, my excitement is at fever pitch.

What could this mean?

A quantum leap in -

Sound?
AI?
Frame rate?
Tire Physics?
Livery Editor?
The bridging of the standard - premium divide?
Online play?
Clutch usability?

Hmm, let me just read the rest of the senten.........

DLC?

So you've made a quantum leap in gouging the customer, congratulations Sony.

I have no real problem with DLC - it's just a part of modern gaming. But to actually brag about it.... very sad.

 

[Kake Bake]

I remember the episode of Quantum Leap where Sam is the dockworker with Down Syndrome.

 

[Imari]

A quantum leap from GT5s DLC is hardly an achievement. Irregular, overpriced, and of inconsistent quality. Spa? Great! Another GTR? Woo...

And from what it sounds like, they're going to be pushing really hard to put out as much DLC as possible. Which as the OP says, is hardly a positive. Some DLC is good. Having a plan is good. When the guy says "It’s really as much about providing a sustained engagement for the consumer as it is about making money", I can't help but wonder why he felt the need to emphasize that they will actually provide value while they're bending us over. Isn't that the point of DLC, to provide additional engagement and value for the customer?

Anyway, it'll be nice to see what they have coming, but the a game that spends it's time tooting about DLC instead of content is...not encouraging. Plenty of time to fire us up about DLC after release. I don't see DLC being a deciding factor in anyone's purchase if the initial game isn't up to scratch.

 

[Tenacious D]

I can see that some people are really eager to make friends here.

 

[IceMan PJN]

I have no real problem with DLC - it's just a part of modern gaming. But to actually brag about it.... very sad.

From PD's perspective, this is forging a path through uncharted wilderness. It's real pioneering, as they can see it. They haven't noticed all the people already living there in houses lining paved streets.

This is how they see themselves:

That belief is illustrated in their comments that "We have certain aspects, like the realism of the game, that’s something unique to Gran Turismo and the quality of the gameplay; I think that sets us apart form everyone else. We have to build on those things and make sure we stay ahead of the pack." They still see themselves as being out ahead.

 

[MeanElf]

This is how they see themselves:

That belief is illustrated in their comments that "We have certain aspects, like the realism of the game, that’s something unique to Gran Turismo and the quality of the gameplay; I think that sets us apart form everyone else. We have to build on those things and make sure we stay ahead of the pack." They still see themselves as being out ahead.

You're really on a mission about this today, aren't you?

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Anyway, it'll be nice to see what they have coming, but the a game that spends it's time tooting about DLC instead of content is...not encouraging. Plenty of time to fire us up about DLC after release. I don't see DLC being a deciding factor in anyone's purchase if the initial game isn't up to scratch.

As for me, right you are.
I have absolutely zero DLC for GT5, for the same reason.

Definitely discouraging to hear about this, but certainly after GT5, no surprise.

Just the natural progression of the big Sony corporate influence fully permeating PD.

More and more, GT4 is looking like the last of the great Gran Turismohicans.

 

[SVT Cobra GT]

I don't have a problem with their plans for DLC.

To me, it will keep the game fresh and will compete with Forza (with regards to content)

As long as the DLC content is varied and reasonably priced then I'll be parting with a lot of money.

But if it's just a 5 car pack with an extra livery or paint job then no thanks!

 

[ShiftingGears]

DLC?

So you've made a quantum leap in gouging the customer, congratulations Sony.

I have no real problem with DLC - it's just a part of modern gaming. But to actually brag about it.... very sad.

I just read the article. I agree with your sentiments 100% here. Essentially all the news I have heard about GT6 so far has not been promising.

Anyway, it'll be nice to see what they have coming, but the a game that spends it's time tooting about DLC instead of content is...not encouraging. Plenty of time to fire us up about DLC after release. I don't see DLC being a deciding factor in anyone's purchase if the initial game isn't up to scratch.

Unless initial DLC is included in some repackaged edition of GT6 two years down the track - I'm thinking likewise.

This is how they see themselves:

That belief is illustrated in their comments that "We have certain aspects, like the realism of the game, that’s something unique to Gran Turismo and the quality of the gameplay; I think that sets us apart form everyone else. We have to build on those things and make sure we stay ahead of the pack." They still see themselves as being out ahead.

He's a businessman, he will no doubt spout generic, empty platitudes about games he does not play so long as they're bringing in money for SCEE. I wouldn't read too much into comments like his to be honest.

As for me, right you are.
I have absolutely zero DLC for GT5.

Neither. If the core game was not such a great disappointment I would've considered buying DLC.

 

[Monatsende]

[...]

This is how they see themselves:

Pic edited

[...]

We know how the story ended. Reservations.

 

[phil_75]

Are the marketing people the same ones who do Xbone? ;-)

 

[Johnnypenso]

I'm hoping a "quantum leap" means DLC coordinated with the game. Cars and tracks that match for example, like Bathurst and Aussie Touring Cars. A premium vintage Muscle car pack. A 125 and 250 Shifter kart with several liveries each along with 1 or 2 real life kart tracks along with events added in ASpec specifically for this. TT's that follow the release of the DLC packs exclusively for DLC buyers. A spec and B spec events added around DLC content.

I'm not sure what the animosity is towards DLC other than having to pay for it, which, while understandable, is also illogical. There is no such thing as a free lunch. No one is going to make a commitment to the ongoing production of content without some recompense. I'm wondering if you'd rather have very little new content as GT5 did, or an ongoing supply of new cars, tracks, scenery and other features?

 

[JDMTuning_DR30]

I'm just wondering what's going to come out of this, the same small sized DLC packs for ridiculous amounts of money we got in GT5, or a brand new start with plenty of content being released for a reasonable price. I also hope they give us some cool different tracks along the way.

I also really hope for some more GT3 Cars (Not meaning Gran Turismo 3 ) because I looove the different racing series (Blancpain endurance is my favorite ) and the amazing aerodynamics and so forth put into the cars' designs.

 

[Monatsende]

If more DLC means:
You´ll get a skinny, barely playable game for 70 Euro and you have to buy DLC 30 Euro worth to have fun.

Then I´m out.

I`m okay with improved DLC packs like in GT5.

 

[Exorcet]

And from what it sounds like, they're going to be pushing really hard to put out as much DLC as possible. Which as the OP says, is hardly a positive.

I don't see how. The amount of it shouldn't matter, unless there is so much that player compatibility issues arise.

If they honestly spend all their time after release creating content, then by all means release it and charge for it.

If they have tons of things ready to go, but withhold it only to charge more, then I can understand.

 

[TokoTurismo]

I don't see how. The amount of it shouldn't matter, unless there is so much that player compatibility issues arise.

If they honestly spend all their time after release creating content, then by all means release it and charge for it.

If they have tons of things ready to go, but withhold it only to charge more, then I can understand.

Pretty much this. Other racing games do this too, and theres nothing wrong with it. Is there? So what was said above, is a "no worry" by me. 👍

 

[MeanElf]

...If they honestly spend all their time after release creating content, then by all means release it and charge for it...

Oddly enough I had a dream last night (sad, I know) in which a stream of GT6 DLC packs were lready appearing on PSN ready to buy. Bathurst was amongst them.

I should stay off the forums for a while...

 

[maxpontiac]

To me, the definition of a quantum leap was answered by Sony itself in the round table interview.

Question:
Was there any particular reason GT6 was chosen not to be launched on the PS4?

Answer:
“It goes back to a point I made earlier – there is definitely a lot of unfinished business on the PS3, and I urge you take a look back at the iterations of GT and GT2 side-by-side; the difference is amazing. You’ll see a similar step change between GT5 and GT6.

Look at what I have underlined. Read again. Read for the third time. Got it? Good.

The difference between GT and GT2 was monumental. To further expound on this, look at what happened with GT4 as compared to GT3.

GT6 will blow us away with the amount of content we will get, and yes, you can quote me on that.

 

[dr_slump]

Premium service perhaps.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

I'm not sure what the animosity is towards DLC other than having to pay for it, which, while understandable, is also illogical. There is no such thing as a free lunch. No one is going to make a commitment to the ongoing production of content without some recompense. I'm wondering if you'd rather have very little new content as GT5 did, or an ongoing supply of new cars, tracks, scenery and other features?

No its not illogical.
You just don't get it.
Yea, there is no free lunch. Then please tell me what the initial $60 is for?
I expect more than two pieces of white bread, and everything else is DLC ala carte.

It encourages the likelyhood of this:

You´ll get a skinny, barely playable game for 70 Euro and you have to buy DLC 30 Euro worth to have fun.

or to get a real game.
Now you can pay for lunch and keep paying from one release to the next.

I guess they are going to quantum leap DLC.
They already got away with it on GT5.
An absolute crap game, and still sold 10 million.
You can't comprehend that a game that was $60, will now cost $80+++?
The logic is pretty simple.

There is absolutely no reason to encourage them to produce a full game on release, and every reason not too.

 

[grashopper]

No its not illogical.
You just don't get it.
Yea, there is no free lunch. Then please tell me what the initial $60 is for?
I expect more than two pieces of white bread, and everything else is DLC ala carte.

It encourages the likelyhood of thisr to get a real game.
Now you can pay for lunch and keep paying from one release to the next.

I guess they are going to quantum leap DLC.
They already got away with it on GT5.
An absolute crap game, and still sold 10 million.
You can't comprehend that a game that was $60, will now cost $80+++?
The logic is pretty simple.

There is absolutely no reason to encourage them to produce a full game on release, and every reason not too.

The initial 60 dollars is for the 200 or so new cars and nearly 20 new tracks and the new tire and suspension physics. New game engine, new events.
It's amazing that you can scoff that off as getting nothing.

 

[hobanator24]

I personally love DLC. It keeps a game current. It also helps choose what will be in the next installment of the series. I think that is what the GT5 DLC was used for. If a certain car in a DLC pack is purchased & enjoyed by many, then that car will make the cut for the next game. I have purchased all of the GT5 DLC with the exception of the stealth & chrome packs. I enjoyed some packs fore than others. I, myself am a Volkswagen fan so I was quick to purchase the Scirocco R, Golf R, & Beetle DLC & had my fun with each. But others may have thought differently. Sony & PD has to account for all types of car enthusiasts & has done so with past titles. GT6 will be no different thanks to DLC.

What I do have a problem with is pre order DLC. I have already pre ordered GT6 & am glad I did, but not for the 15 cars I get to use from the start, but because I am a fan of the GT franchise & have been for a long time. Now, some people may be new to GT & want to wait to hear reviews before going out & buying a game sight unseen. But those people that wait & buy the game pre owned or after release will be denied any pre order DLC or special edition DLC & I think that is quite unfair.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

The initial 60 dollars is for the 200 or so new cars and nearly 20 new tracks and the new tire and suspension physics. New game engine, new events.
It's amazing that you can scoff that off as getting nothing.

So you have the cars, tracks, and physics, or white bread.
Same number of events and disjointed, unbalanced, makeshift, progression and credit system as GT5?
If thats what we get, it will deserve scoffing at.

I said a "full game", as in quantity and quality.

While we are at it, how about the graphics problems, AI, Livery editor or lack of, series races, qualifying, rims and tires, classic tracks, etc.etc.

I guess you think its OK to buy a pie with several pieces missing, and when you take it back, you find out they are going to charge you extra for them.

 

[Samus]

I'm not sure what the animosity is towards DLC other than having to pay for it, which, while understandable, is also illogical. There is no such thing as a free lunch. No one is going to make a commitment to the ongoing production of content without some recompense. I'm wondering if you'd rather have very little new content as GT5 did, or an ongoing supply of new cars, tracks, scenery and other features?

Paying for DLC as a simple concept is not the issue/where the animosity comes from, at least for me. The issue is when a) I/we feel the content is not priced correctly (£4 for a tarted up PS2 track, £6.50 for 15 cars already in the game tarted up as 'touring cars') b) it's a straight up rip off (One use paint chips) or c) It's content they could have included on the disc but chose to hold it back to make even more money instead.

Now granted we don't know C to be true yet when it comes to GT6 but if they do come up with a new track every month people are rightly going to be suspicious.

Also just because they can charge for DLC given the bumper profits each game already makes they could choose not to, as a gift to the 10 million people that bought the game. It means slightly lower profits but it keeps those fans happy, something you have to do every once in a while as a business.

GT6 will blow us away with the amount of content we will get, and yes, you can quote me on that.

Thanks. See you back here in three months.

 

[grashopper]

So you have the cars, tracks, and physics, or white bread.
Same number of events and disjointed, unbalanced, makeshift, progression and credit system as GT5?
If thats what we get, it will deserve scoffing at.

I said a "full game", as in quantity and quality.

While we are at it, how about the graphics problems, AI, Livery editor or lack of, series races, qualifying, rims and tires, classic tracks, etc.etc.

I guess you think its OK to buy a pie with several pieces missing, and when you take it back, you find out they are going to charge you extra for them.

Do you think they are going to charge for AI, livery editors, series races, and qualifying? You have no idea if 6 well have those things and if the amount and quality of the offline game well be the same, yet you are complaining like you already finished it.
Realistically speaking DLC will be cars and tracks and as long as they aren't done before the game ships I have zero issues paying people for doing additional work to extend the game.

 

[MrWednesday]

Paying for DLC as a simple concept is not the issue/where the animosity comes from, at least for me. The issue is when a) I/we feel the content is not priced correctly (£4 for a tarted up PS2 track, £6.50 for 15 cars already in the game tarted up as 'touring cars') b) it's a straight up rip off (One use paint chips) or c) It's content they could have included on the disc but chose to hold it back to make even more money instead.

(a) and (b) are easily addressed: vote with your wallet and don't buy it the DLC. If enough people agree with you, PD will get the message.

 

[Johnnypenso]

No its not illogical.
You just don't get it.
Yea, there is no free lunch. Then please tell me what the initial $60 is for?
I expect more than two pieces of white bread, and everything else is DLC ala carte.

It encourages the likelyhood of thisr to get a real game.
Now you can pay for lunch and keep paying from one release to the next.

I guess they are going to quantum leap DLC.
They already got away with it on GT5.
An absolute crap game, and still sold 10 million.
You can't comprehend that a game that was $60, will now cost $80+++?
The logic is pretty simple.

There is absolutely no reason to encourage them to produce a full game on release, and every reason not too.

For $60 you get 1200+ cars, 70+ tracks and unlimited online access along with a host of new tracks, cars, features, physics, tire model etc. etc. etc. creating potentially thousands of hours of game time if you so choose. I've easily put 1000 hours into GT5 in 3.5 years to that works out to 6 cents per hour..not a bad deal from where I sit. If that's two pieces of white bread then that's darn good white bread and well worth it to me. If it's not to you, then you'll likely be off to some other sim. You can't make everyone happy, just 10 million or so.

Paying for DLC as a simple concept is not the issue/where the animosity comes from, at least for me. The issue is when a) I/we feel the content is not priced correctly (£4 for a tarted up PS2 track, £6.50 for 15 cars already in the game tarted up as 'touring cars') b) it's a straight up rip off (One use paint chips) or c) It's content they could have included on the disc but chose to hold it back to make even more money instead.

Now granted we don't know C to be true yet when it comes to GT6 but if they do come up with a new track every month people are rightly going to be suspicious.

Also just because they can charge for DLC given the bumper profits each game already makes they could choose not to, as a gift to the 10 million people that bought the game. It means slightly lower profits but it keeps those fans happy, something you have to do every once in a while as a business.

Thanks. See you back here in three months.

If it's tarted up content, priced incorrectly or a scam like one time use paint chips, then you don't buy it and no ripoff. You'll never know whether anything was ready at launch or not so c) is not really an issue, you can only guess at that.

Sony/PD has already set a tone with some free DLC in GT5 so I expect that to continue, it only makes good business sense to keep the customers happy by throwing them a bone once in a while, and it will encourage further sales as well, resulting in max profits for Sony/PD. If they are really smart, they'll tie in the free stuff to stuff further down the road that naturally go together, like events, cars and tracks. Release a track or tracks for free, then sell a set of cars that go with that track...like Bathurst and Aussie Touring Cars.

Regardless of what happens, to me buying DLC for a handful of dollars is a no brainer for me. I realize not everyone is working, some fans are students or on a tight budget but for us working stiffs, spending a few $$ a month on some cars and tracks isn't going to make a dent in the family budget or even be noticed.

 

[Tenacious D]

I'm hoping a "quantum leap" means DLC coordinated with the game. Cars and tracks that match for example, like Bathurst and Aussie Touring Cars. A premium vintage Muscle car pack. A 125 and 250 Shifter kart with several liveries each along with 1 or 2 real life kart tracks along with events added in A-Spec specifically for this. TT's that follow the release of the DLC packs exclusively for DLC buyers. A spec and B spec events added around DLC content.

This is what I'm hoping too. Just imagine an Event List such as the GT4 world map, with locations blank and a "Coming Soon" sign in their place. And in six monthe or so, you were served notice that a DTM Pack was available with a few additional Deutsch tracks like say Hockenheim, and additional DTM cars for $10 or 15 US.

What if one of them was a WRC Pack with point-to-point rally stages in Europe and added Rally cars from famous racing teams, tuned to their specs.

Or BTCC cars and tracks like Brands Hatch.

I'd buy this for a few dollars! You do whatever you want.

Pit Crew had a good observation on this point:

...Now that it would seem that PD has an actual plan to deliver DLC of some kind to us. Something they didn’t have last year when many members proudly displayed wishlists, and ideas all over this blog. People are still not happy, constantly looking for problems where they don’t exist.

It’s obvious way too many people assumed a PS4 developed GT6 would fix all of GT5's problems. It quite possibly would have, but at this point, It is what it is. Make your stand as a consumer and spend the money or don’t.

And I'll quote myself:

Consider the alternative (to shorter games and DLC).

Huge games, long films, epical books.

And they come out every two to five years. Remember all the howling over the wait we endured for GT5? People posting on the boards, “Just release it NOW and give us patches and DLC later!”

People want gourmet banquets delivered at Taco Bell speed for pennies.

 

[maxpontiac]

Thanks. See you back here in three months.

Indeed you will. You of all people will appreciate the "content" delivered with this game (should what Sony says be correct).

People want gourmet banquets delivered at Taco Bell speed for pennies.

 

[Samus]

If it's tarted up content, priced incorrectly or a scam like one time use paint chips, then you don't buy it and no ripoff. You'll never know whether anything was ready at launch or not so c) is not really an issue, you can only guess at that.

(a) and (b) are easily addressed: vote with your wallet and don't buy it the DLC. If enough people agree with you, PD will get the message.

Yes I'm aware of that, I was just answering the question "I'm not sure what the animosity is towards DLC". That was the answer.

If it's reasonably priced, good quality new content I have no issue or "animosity" with DLC, if I don't like it I won't buy it. I do have a problem with DLC when the aforementioned issues are attached to it.

Indeed you will. You of all people will appreciate the "content" delivered with this game (should what Sony says be correct).

Not if most of it is DLC I won't.