- 2,790
- Vancouver, BC
- liampage123
Crashing at 60 is dangerous regardless of what car your in.
A Sports Car For a First Car?
- Thread starter LeadFootLiam
- 222 comments
- 8,817 views
- 2,568
- Wonderland
- zyla-corps
- N/A
Are you implying that being in a sports car while you crash will increase the risk of death more than crashing at the same speed in a slower car?
- 6,092
- Phoenix, AZ
It's a bit late, but I'd like to add in my opinion.
A WRX isn't a good first car not just because of the insurance, the difficulty of finding a good one, or all the statistics telling you that bad things will happen if you drive one at your age. Those are all important factors, but there's also the temptation. There's certain cars that just urge you to drive beyond your limits and past the speed limit. What everyone's trying to argue is that because you're young, you don't know what the limit is. You don't know what it takes to approach it, and you're not gonna know what to do at the limit, no matter what GT skills you may have. I'm not saying this as an experienced driver, I'm not. I've never approached the limit, but I know not to try that on the road. If you can believe me, I take it easy on the road. I've been told I'm a good driver. I think I'm okay, but I know I'm not gonna be able to deal with a peaky all wheel drive car at the limit. I'd probably die.
The argument is that you should get a car with a much lower limit, because even though it's easier to approach the limit, it's not as dangerous as a sports compact. You'll develop an understanding of how to handle a car at the limit, when the limit is being approached, and when you can safely approach the limit. Like I said before, some cars give you that urge to drive more aggressively than you should. My mom's Mini can be like that sometimes. The problem is, if you're driving a WRX, you've got more power, more grip under normal driving and better handling. This will instill a sense of confidence, and that confidence will come to bite you in the ass when you become overconfident and oversteer into a bus full of orphans. If you'd started out with say, a 2.5RS and safely explored the limit, said situation could have been dealt with, at least in theory.
Maybe I shouldn't be talking since I have a 230 horsepower RWD car, which would be considered awfully dangerous for a new driver like myself. I'm not saying I'm a good driver, and I'm not saying I won't be tempted to approach the limit. Will you be tempted to approach the limit? You probably will, because most teenagers do. I've seen the way people my age drive around here, it's damn dangerous. If you have the self control to not approach the limit in a WRX at your age, you must be some sort of guru of self discipline. What I'm trying to say is that if you are tempted to approach the limit, learn how to deal with it in a less deadly car.
A WRX isn't a good first car not just because of the insurance, the difficulty of finding a good one, or all the statistics telling you that bad things will happen if you drive one at your age. Those are all important factors, but there's also the temptation. There's certain cars that just urge you to drive beyond your limits and past the speed limit. What everyone's trying to argue is that because you're young, you don't know what the limit is. You don't know what it takes to approach it, and you're not gonna know what to do at the limit, no matter what GT skills you may have. I'm not saying this as an experienced driver, I'm not. I've never approached the limit, but I know not to try that on the road. If you can believe me, I take it easy on the road. I've been told I'm a good driver. I think I'm okay, but I know I'm not gonna be able to deal with a peaky all wheel drive car at the limit. I'd probably die.
The argument is that you should get a car with a much lower limit, because even though it's easier to approach the limit, it's not as dangerous as a sports compact. You'll develop an understanding of how to handle a car at the limit, when the limit is being approached, and when you can safely approach the limit. Like I said before, some cars give you that urge to drive more aggressively than you should. My mom's Mini can be like that sometimes. The problem is, if you're driving a WRX, you've got more power, more grip under normal driving and better handling. This will instill a sense of confidence, and that confidence will come to bite you in the ass when you become overconfident and oversteer into a bus full of orphans. If you'd started out with say, a 2.5RS and safely explored the limit, said situation could have been dealt with, at least in theory.
Maybe I shouldn't be talking since I have a 230 horsepower RWD car, which would be considered awfully dangerous for a new driver like myself. I'm not saying I'm a good driver, and I'm not saying I won't be tempted to approach the limit. Will you be tempted to approach the limit? You probably will, because most teenagers do. I've seen the way people my age drive around here, it's damn dangerous. If you have the self control to not approach the limit in a WRX at your age, you must be some sort of guru of self discipline. What I'm trying to say is that if you are tempted to approach the limit, learn how to deal with it in a less deadly car.
- 3,915
- California
- gdwest1
- 2,790
- Vancouver, BC
- liampage123
I officially changed the title of the thread. Don't close it mods.
If you have a car with 50/50 AWD, the force on the tires are distributed 25% on each of the 4 wheels, when a 50/50 AWD is driving in a straight line. With a FWD or a RWD, the forces on the tires are ditributed over only two wheels.
With "forces" I mean the force applied from the engine power.
When a car oversteers, the sideway there are also sideway force on the rear tires. As I said, the speed of a WRX in a corner is higher without losing grip than with a FWD/RWS. In that case, because the speed is higher, the forces are higher and you will exceed the sideway forces a tire can handle faster than you think. Don't forget that in my previous posts, I mentioned shifting the weight of the car onto the front tires, which makes the rear tires lose grip even faster. So, you can definitely oversteer a WRX easily, as long as the speed is high enough (that was my argument in previous post ==> showing off to friend etc.... ).
Let's take one wheel of the front suspension for instance. Driving straight forward, there is only one force on the tire. A force in a straight line. If you turn a secondary sideway force is applied to the tire. If the sideway force exceeds the straight forward force and the tire isn't designed to cope with this sideway force, this tire will lose grip and you have understeer.
If the forces are applied 25% on each wheel, it takes longer for the forces to exceed the forces a tire can handle thus making a 50/50 4WD more grippy than a FWD or RWD with all the engine power on only two tires instead of 4 tires.
A RWD or a FWD has the engine power divided over only two wheels making the forces on these two tires exceed faster (because there is more engine power on one tire compared to a 4WD) than with a 4WD. If the FWD and RWD has the same tires as the 4WD, the FWD and the RWD will lose grip faster than the 4WD making a 4WD better to handle and making a WRX more dangerous to drive because you ca go much faster through corners. Showing off to your friends with a WRX is catastrophic.
The above example is theoretical and not entirely correct because I didn't mention the mechanics of a differential, the suspension in general etc... .
I don't know anything about the mechanic's and electronic's of a car.
It is difficult to explain in English. It much easier in Dutch though.
It all makes perfectly sense in my head but putting it in writing (in English) is difficult and my sound strange of faulty.I hope I make sense though.
How to correct understeer?
* Decrease speed, forces on the front tires diminishes and the weight of the car shifts forward, creating more grip on the front tires. You can also apply the brakes slightly to transfer more weight to the front of the car.
* Open your steering. I.e. do the opposite of what you intuition says and instead of turning more, turn less thus decreasing the sideway forces on the front wheels, creating more grip on the front wheels
* Apply the clutch to cut off the engine power to the front tires and the tires get more grip because the forces (other forces than engine power) is less and divided almost equally over the 4 wheels. Use the clutch to push yourself into the driver's seat leaving your arms and hands free and have all the freedom to control the car.
* Look where you have to drive to. Your hands (brain) will follow where you look at.
* As a very last resort, use the e-brake. Only use this if you are going straight to a ravine on a road in Austria with snow on it and you're driving on summer tires. (Real experience I had and I managed not to go into the ravine
) I was trying to follow an Austrian 4WD VW Van with winter tires and I had a VW Golf II Manhatten on summer tires. 
All the above didn't work because I was going too fast and wasn't able to slow down enough in time so I used my e-brake to alter my trajectory (turn the car away from the ravine). And summer tire on a snowy road in Austria is
Losing grip= when the speed (forces) of the tires exceeds the speed of the car compared to the surface the car is driving on. ==> Locking wheels = no speed of the wheels but the car is still driving. Spin the wheels on acceleration = speed of the wheels is higher than the speed of the car.
This is a simplistic explanation of what losing grip is.
Edit: All the car journalists, homeforsummer, Famine, niky, specially Scaff and other members on GTP, if I'm wrong, feel free to burst my bubble and correct me. Do it in a nice manner and don't hurt my feelings or I'm forced to start insulting people and get banned.
/justkidding
Last edited:
- 1,591
- Under the Hood
- 629
- Ontario, Canada
- B-Line98
I'm wondering too. I would hope the MX-5 is cheap on insurance because of the fact it's only 120-ish HP (although it is a convertible unless you replace it with a hard top. My brother thinks he can get a 94-2004 Mustang with cheap insurance
I don't want to end up like my dad who got a 1971 Plymouth Barracuda at my age (15) and never drove it until he was about 20.
Dotini
(Banned)
- 15,742
- Seattle
- CR80_Shifty
I remember back in 1967 I bought my first car, an Austin-Healey Sprite sports car. A year or two later, I bought a BMW 700S for track days and my first car races.
I reckon either the MX-5 or the Clio to be good choices. It's really all down to the nut behind the wheel.
Edit: A kart might be the best choice, particularly if you can get Dad involved!
- 5,198
- UK
- marunda/GTP_FordMKIVJ5
- 12,122
- Liverpool
- CARBOYXJR
- 5,198
- UK
- marunda/GTP_FordMKIVJ5
- 12,122
- Liverpool
- CARBOYXJR
Don't worry, i've been up close and personal with real motorsport for most of my life. I know the money that goes into it. I remember an F3 team owner who's driver had just crashed, and someone said to him "are you not worried for them when they go off?". He replied, "No, all I see in a crash is money".
INEEDNAWZZZ
Premium
- 1,828
- Lincoln
- EGGSBAWCKS
- DigitalLuke64DD
hsv010
The moment you say RenaultSport to the man/woman from the insurance company, you'd better hope they take you out for a nice sea food dinner, 'cause they'll be coming in from behind.
Just saying; as I mentioned in a previous post, I thought I was gonna have a cheap, fast, turbo nugget as my first car and would do lots of track days with it. After actually realising how much it would cost overall, as well as driving a car with similar power, weight and driving dynamics (and how inviting it is to just floor it), it really didn't seem like such a good plan anymore. Instead, I went for the non-turbo, boring variant of the car I was after (the one in my profile pic). At first I wasn't too taken with it, now though, I realise there is a lot of fun to be had with it, and it is ridiculously cheap to run and maintain, especially in comparison to what the little turbo'd version would have set me back.
- 12,122
- Liverpool
- CARBOYXJR
Don't say sport, help bump that price down a little
INEEDNAWZZZ
Premium
- 1,828
- Lincoln
- EGGSBAWCKS
- DigitalLuke64DD
What sort of R.S. Clio you looking for? Because even the basic, first gen models still have 2.0 litre engines in them. Regardless of whether you tell them its a sport or not, such a big engine will make that price jump sky high.
- 5,198
- UK
- marunda/GTP_FordMKIVJ5
As I said:
Just get something small and cheap. Then once you've got a years no claims or two and some actual experience of driving on the roads on a regular basis get a decent car.
INEEDNAWZZZ
Premium
- 1,828
- Lincoln
- EGGSBAWCKS
- DigitalLuke64DD
Sorry, skimmed over your post.
But yeah, I agree with Ford. A cheap, little hatchback that works is the way to go.
But yeah, I agree with Ford. A cheap, little hatchback that works is the way to go.
- 34,949
- Indian Falls, NY
- slashfan7964
You guys have some ridiculous insurance prices then. One of my friends just picked up a 2002 4.6L Mustang GT and he's not really paying out the ass for it. Parents don't help either. It's not anywhere close to those figures. I want to say it was around $1,100.
Last edited:
- 12,122
- Liverpool
- CARBOYXJR
I was looking at a 172 Clio. I've discussed this with my parents, and if the insurance isn't overly ridiculous they will seriously consider it. I could probably push my quote under £2,500 with a lot of searching.
This comes to mind though, quite a funny story:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...th-1-400-t-afford-told-pay-104-000-month.html
This comes to mind though, quite a funny story:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...th-1-400-t-afford-told-pay-104-000-month.html
- 5,760
- Pennsylvania
- Ilikewaffles_11
So since I see others asking about insurance maybe I can ask mine...
I'm looking at getting a 1985 Toyota Celica-Supra as a first car. I'm curious as to just how much the insurance will cost for a 16/17 year old. I've got a good bit of money saved up, so even if it is rather expensive hopefully I can afford it...
I'm looking at getting a 1985 Toyota Celica-Supra as a first car. I'm curious as to just how much the insurance will cost for a 16/17 year old. I've got a good bit of money saved up, so even if it is rather expensive hopefully I can afford it...
McLaren
Premium
- 45,391
- Texas
I guess you need someone to hold your hand through it.
You told Liam he should stop convincing people he's a qualified driver. Not in terms of experience he's not just as you aren't. You then decided to intend qualified by what the govt. defines it as, which Toronado explained nicely doesn't mean anything in the US. A qualified driver for a M3 is someone with years of experience, something Liam isn't, just as I'm not qualified to buy a GT3 & start tracking it without any sort of experience behind such a car.
Continuing to ignore the rest of my post shows me you're still too young to understand it either.
Similar threads
