ABS 0 In GT6 May Not Be As Bad As Some Might Think...EDIT: Actually It's Worse!
- Thread starter VBR
- 75 comments
- 5,926 views
- 243
- France
- SillyBillyP
I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure that in real life ABS only comes on when you slam the brakes like for an emergency stop. In years of driving IRL, I think I've only had the ABS come on a couple of times. It feels different - the car sort of shudders (mine did anyway).
And, the GT5/6 ABS is not really ABS, it's a sort of braking assist.
- 243
- France
- SillyBillyP
I'd really recommend trying ABS=0 (at least with standard brakes). It's much more fun.
With ABS on, you just have to slam on the brakes at the braking point. And that's it.
With ABS off, you have to start braking at the braking point, but what you have to do is then keep the brakes pressed just right so that the tyres are right at the limit. It can be a bit hairy, but that's way more exciting.
With ABS on, you just have to slam on the brakes at the braking point. And that's it.
With ABS off, you have to start braking at the braking point, but what you have to do is then keep the brakes pressed just right so that the tyres are right at the limit. It can be a bit hairy, but that's way more exciting.
- 16
- South Africa
- zubbh
I noticed the same thing. Reduced brake strength on some of the cars due to locking up happening on DS3.
Driving a new car with deactivated ABS (on the limit) is only difficult because new cars tend to have very soft brake pedal feeling to make sure that people get good stopping power in an emergency.
This makes it difficult to get the right ammount of pedal travel.
On older cars (90's) that had no ABS fitted from the start the brake pedal needs much more pressure to lock the wheels to make it easier to get the right pressure and to prevent people from locking the wheels to easy.
It is like comparing sim brake pedals with load cell to normal spring pedals.
Another factor could be that older cars with no ABS had usually a mechanical valve that adjustet (dynamic) how much braking power goes to the rear axle depending on how much weight is on it.
New ABS cars don't have that any more becuase the brake bias adjustment is also done by the ABS (EBD), so i guess if you pull the ABS fuse the rear axle gets only very little brake bias to make sure you don't spin in case the ABS fails.
- 535
- New York
- Metfanant
- Metfanant
thats not true at all...removing ABS from a car should not have ANY effect on day to day driving...the only purpose of an ABS system is to monitor lockup and respond accordingly...
If you removed ABS from a car there will be ZERO difference unless you brake hard enough to induce lockup...in the case the brakes will remain locked and there will be no modulation...
under normal circumstances you are not "using" the ABS system of your car at all...
- 16
- South Africa
- zubbh
I drive a Mk.1 Golf with no ABS. Without ABS and upgraded brake booster pressure is fine until you have to step hard on the brakes. If there was an ABS system for the car (which can be put in as far as I know) installed the braking performance changes would come more from upgraded components that can handle more of a load as well as the combination of pads / discs. Yes, assists would help in preventing lock-ups but the overall system would be better based on its composition.
- 6,318
- West Virginia
- HBR-Roadhog
- HBR Roadhog
What ABS is supposed to do IRL is prevent the wheels from locking up under braking. When it activates depends on tires, speed and road conditions, It basically senses wheel lock and reduces brake pressure to allow the wheel to rotate. It is not uncommon to get little chirps fromt he tires under heavy braking with ABS as the tires keep trying to lock but the ABS keeps releasing them which causes a shutter in the feel. GT ABS is a bit different in that it has adjustable levels of braking power where normal ABS is just an anti lock system. You can get maximum stopping power in an ABS enabled car if it works properly.
If you use a wheel and pedals like I have then it is a bit more difficult. Standard brakes do not work very well on any of the cars and make it very hard to slow down, wheel lock is not the issue unless using CS tires or below or on wet road but getting enough braking is an issue. The pressure sensor requires a lot of braking to slow the car and the result is that you will blast through corners and off track often. I use racing brakes on pretty much everything just so I do not have to stand on the pedal to slow the car down and of course once you apply racing brakes the ABS off does not work so well. It is doable but ....
- 3,383
- Some where near the Pub
- GTP_hasslemoff
I ran the Alpine A113O without ABS and CH tyres in Time Trial mode on the Nurb and found that I had to be carefull with the brake as to not lock up the tyres.
I than ran a race in Arcade mode with the same settings and the brakes were completly different as they didnt lock up and it felt exactly the same as running with ABS on, I did double check that ABS was still off. After feeling a massive difference I went to career mode and it was exactly the same as arcade mode as if ABS was on.
Then went online and had a go and that was like running in the TT mode, carefull braking.
My point is there is a significant difference between running with no ABS in Career and Arcade race from Online and Time trial in arcade mode, its strange and should be the same no matter what mode you go in. Has anyone else noticed this?
- 8,704
What was your bias setting, incidentally?
- 306
- United Kingdom
- Kasabian1972
GT6 hasn't done a great job at implementing ABS off. Don't like to compare it too another platform game but Forza has always done a better job, as someone has already said, abs ON is more like a braking assist than a true representation of how ABS really works.
Remember forza 3 doing a good job of ABS, you could actually see from the rear camera the tyres blipping a skid on the track.
- 3,383
- Some where near the Pub
- GTP_hasslemoff
@Griffith500 3/1, but thats not the problem, the problem was its completly different between online & arcade TT to Career mode and Arcade race 
- 472
- France
- poumpoumk
This is the kind of bug that I don't understand ! It takes 5min to correct... I hope PD is reading this.
- 683
- Canada
- Vivos71
With my Logitech G27, I have installed the GTEye Brake spring, putting the normal brake spring into the clutch, and with ABS 0 in this game, I'd say that the brakes feel just about perfect. With most cars the brakes lock up just after the spring starts to get hard. I think they map the brakes to the % travel in a real car. If you put the brake pedal all the way down, you will lock up (there is a LOT of travel in a real world car compared to most Console grade pedals). In my real car the ABS kicks in at speed at about 60-70% similar to the in game Accord for me. some cars are a little touchy like the new Ford Mustangs in game, but for the most part, ABS 1 is accurate if ABS 0 is odd.
- 392
- NL
- Morphisorius
@Griffith500 3/1, but thats not the problem, the problem was its completly different between online & arcade TT to Career mode and Arcade race
He's asking, because it has previously been found by many people that in free run, time trials and apparently also online, the brake balance reverts to the standard 5/5 setting. Your experience would fit in with that; the 3/1 setting only applies in arcade and career modes.
- 3,383
- Some where near the Pub
- GTP_hasslemoff
- 392
- NL
- Morphisorius
I had seen anything about it.
So if I was to use BB 5/5 in Arcade and Career mode it will feel the same as when in TT, Free run and online ?
Ill give it a try
As far as I know, yes. At this point I'm not going to count it out completely though...
- 6,425
- KCCO
Umm.... Pull the fuse.
IRL I probably have never gone above 50% brake usage, as I like to let friction with the tires and the road do the work.. Also for the fact that I hate to scrub out the residue left on the wheels.
If you've ever ridden a bike you've experienced ABS at zero too. And whenever I'm on a wet road, I normally do the pump method not to lock up, as if it works for a car, it's going to work for a bike.
I always thought the same on GT5, but also with the aero and the tire grip were different on different modes, on the same realistic setting... I have yet to test this however on 6.
Motorbike ?
Careful with "pumping "! Very dangerous !
If you release pressure you take weight of the front wheel, when you "pump" again you can easy brake traction and that is not fun !
Always start with applying only little pressure on the brake and then increase it when you feel the front going down in the suspension under the weightshift.
When driving low speed (city) it is best to do most braking with the rear brake, if you lock that up for a short time it is by far not as bad as locking the front. (Which is pretty much a 100% crash if it happens the first time for you)
Pumping is only good in a car when you have locked up but have to change direction and have to slow down further.
If you have a clear "exit" forget the pumping and go off the brake and concentrate on steering around the obstacle.
- 6,425
- KCCO
- 535
- New York
- Metfanant
- Metfanant
yes, all ABS does is help prevent lockups...it does not improve braking performance over proper threshold braking (with either ABS or not)...
ABS' biggest benefit in truth is allowing you to brake while turning your vehicle...
your tires have a limited amount of grip, when going straight all of that grip is focused on stopping the vehicle, but when turning the grip level is split between cornering, and braking...you can test it out for yourself...slam on the brakes in a straight line...then try slamming on your brakes while turning, you will lock up much faster while turning...
- 368
- Taiwan
I tried 0 ABS on Supra with SS and RH tires at Brands Hatch. OE brake, bias 1/0 or 0/0. It still locks too easily.
On my old Logitech plastic pedal, the mapping to the red bar on screen is linear with stroke. And you know the so-called pressure on this thing is just a joke. So I can only rely on the (very unreliable) sense of stepping depth but not resistance.
Anyway, as I try very hard to take care of several things in the same time, I find it almost impossible to get it right:
- the movement of my dumb left foot
- the tire sound changes and the FFB on wheel
- the length of red bar
- the tire temperature indicator
It locks mostly at about half way of the red bar (which reflects the depth I press). But things change in quite a large range. In straight line and higher speed, it can hold (unlocked) to a higher limit. At lower speed, especially at turn-in, inside front is easily locked, maybe around 30~40% depth. Red hot front tires push it wide with lightened FFB on wheel. At this moment, no grip on tire and no feel on steering. Inevitably, any correction is just too late and I shove into the gravel or grass too often.
Trying to avoid locking and maximize the effective braking is a hard task. Trail braking is a whole lot more difficult or entirely impossible, which I do a lot with the help of ABS.
Eventually I quit trying. It's just too nervous and makes me too busy on brake alone. I got many other things to take care of.
Before I try again, I think the user interface need a major overhaul. I need some form of force feedback on this, instead of visual or auditory clues. Those two are already overloaded.
On my old Logitech plastic pedal, the mapping to the red bar on screen is linear with stroke. And you know the so-called pressure on this thing is just a joke. So I can only rely on the (very unreliable) sense of stepping depth but not resistance.
Anyway, as I try very hard to take care of several things in the same time, I find it almost impossible to get it right:
- the movement of my dumb left foot
- the tire sound changes and the FFB on wheel
- the length of red bar
- the tire temperature indicator
It locks mostly at about half way of the red bar (which reflects the depth I press). But things change in quite a large range. In straight line and higher speed, it can hold (unlocked) to a higher limit. At lower speed, especially at turn-in, inside front is easily locked, maybe around 30~40% depth. Red hot front tires push it wide with lightened FFB on wheel. At this moment, no grip on tire and no feel on steering. Inevitably, any correction is just too late and I shove into the gravel or grass too often.
Trying to avoid locking and maximize the effective braking is a hard task. Trail braking is a whole lot more difficult or entirely impossible, which I do a lot with the help of ABS.
Eventually I quit trying. It's just too nervous and makes me too busy on brake alone. I got many other things to take care of.
Before I try again, I think the user interface need a major overhaul. I need some form of force feedback on this, instead of visual or auditory clues. Those two are already overloaded.
- 11,154
- Sweden
- eran0004
- 57
- United States
- 6,425
- KCCO
a lot of the cars from GT5 had this issue of downshifting, especially in turns at or before apex, where you would spin out. The only solution i found was to have a low LSD and it is basically fixed.I start by saying that i ve never used ABS IRL in none of the 11 cars i ve howned & drove.
GT6 1.00 0ABS brake was just an improvement in how the brakes works, feel and react to bias change.
Was great! Altought free practice mode in offline was already affected from the actuall bug.
Then 1.02 came & online mode went just 🤬. Bias change no longer have any big effect in the game.
With a G27 u can reach the max brake power in the game by using just few inches of pedal travel. It is simply ennoying.
G27 is not well supported from GT for sure. On a PC u can have much stronger ffb and accurancy in feeling.
I dont think would take very long to put an options menu when u can set and calibrate your wheel and pedals by your own preferences.
Brakes are so snappy in some cars that they actually bring another GT6 problem out...braking and domwshifting (in my experience something quite normal IRL) makes very easy to lock up rear wheels and engage lsd, having drivetrain reactions that are way too violent. I think this is the main reason why cars like R8 LMS, Z4 gt3,..... are so 🤬 to drive and predict.
So instead keep taking out frontend input & grip (1.03) PD should fix brakes and lsd engagement.
Lot of cars will be suddendly easier to drive
EDIT: please note that career mode is NOT affected. It is like online mode in 1.00 (& how i would like to have back).
So please dont reply that the brake are just fine cause u test in career mode! Thx
Another thing to do is brake a little bit before you downshift, while, and a little after. Then let off (not all the way but allow 15-25% throttle) to allow the RPM to lower again, and repeat until the necessary gear. This way the engine helps you brake, and you also dont kill your tires as fast. It is a very fast process especially when using LMP's or cars of similar nature. You can even do this while in a straight line, or trail braking. It is similar to the pump method most drivers use and what ABS does when used. But basically it is eliminating the need to slam and lock, which most of use who drive controllers, and those who slam with wheels do..
But the main thing, try to experiment with different braking methods. Try to actually pump the brakes, use both full throttle, half, quarter and full braking, or any other idea that you have. I know some people will say that "well it snaps even though ive tried everything". Well while you may have tried all methods possible, but have you intertwined LSD, Transmission, and suspension together, with your methods? Probably not. So there is hope, because racing exists...
- 368
- Taiwan
No.
I think the key is not only the physical feel of the pedal itself, but also the motion mapping to the game -- the relation between the pedal stroke and the actual effective brake force on the cars.
The non-linear resistance on pedal should match the non-linear force, otherwise it won't be realistic.
And, I desperately need active and effective feedback from the brake and tire. Simple resistance on pedal can't give that. I suppose.
I think the key is not only the physical feel of the pedal itself, but also the motion mapping to the game -- the relation between the pedal stroke and the actual effective brake force on the cars.
The non-linear resistance on pedal should match the non-linear force, otherwise it won't be realistic.
And, I desperately need active and effective feedback from the brake and tire. Simple resistance on pedal can't give that. I suppose.
