ABS 0 In GT6 May Not Be As Bad As Some Might Think...EDIT: Actually It's Worse!

[VBR]

EDIT: After @grog pointed out there was a bug with ABS off in certain modes, I did some testing & my results are posted up in another thread in the GT6 Feedback Forum here.



Original Post:

Let me explain; I was driving my Caterham Fireblade with no ABS on Brands Hatch last night, I had the brakes set to 8/4 & the wheels hardly locked up at all. It reminded me of the Caterham 7 Superlight I drove in the real world at a track day once, it felt very similar. By the way, in GT6 the car was totally stock except for a tyre change to Comfort Softs, & I was using sequential shift (so the auto blip was automatically on).

Think about it; the real Caterham 7 Superlight I drove was designed to be used without ABS, that's why it felt so easy to brake, & I presume it's the same case with the Caterham Fireblade in real life also. Maybe PD have got the ABS pretty much spot on in GT6, because the only cars where ABS 0 can be tricky (and here's my point) are cars which were not designed to be used without ABS.

Try the Caterham Fireblade out for yourself & tell me what you think.

 

[ironman44321]

That's actually very possible. But I expect you'll get plenty of push back for saying it isn't awful.

 

[MasterFocus]

I drive all the car that dont have ABS IRL with ABS-0 in game and I'm using a G27.
I've been doing that since GT5 and never complain about it.

 

[grog]

It really isn't bad once you realize there is a glitch with the brake bias settings where in some modes it reverts back to 5/5, which depending on the car can either make the brakes worse, or make them way too strong causing instant lock ups.

The brake bias works properly in career mode races but not online or free run. When you race online or in free run the brake bias values return to 5/5 which is why you can turn it down to 0/0 and still lock the brakes, the game still reads a value of 5/5.
This problem is only apparent on cars that lock up their brakes with the stock setting, such as the Huayra or F40.


I have to agree, running without ABS is much better now. I cant wait to go back online once they fix the brake Bias bug.

 

[MX5Racer69]

It really isn't bad once you realize there is a glitch with the brake bias settings where in some modes it reverts back to 5/5, which depending on the car can either make the brakes worse, or make them way too strong causing instant lock ups.

The brake bias works properly in career mode races but not online or free run. When you race online or in free run the brake bias values return to 5/5 which is why you can turn it down to 0/0 and still lock the brakes, the game still reads a value of 5/5.
This problem is only apparent on cars that lock up their brakes with the stock setting, such as the Huayra or F40.


I have to agree, running without ABS is much better now. I cant wait to go back online once they fix the brake Bias bug.

Is this why I can set the front brakes to 1 and rear to 10 and it still locks up in the front first?

 

[hobbsy]

It really isn't bad once you realize there is a glitch with the brake bias settings where in some modes it reverts back to 5/5, which depending on the car can either make the brakes worse, or make them way too strong causing instant lock ups.

The brake bias works properly in career mode races but not online or free run. When you race online or in free run the brake bias values return to 5/5 which is why you can turn it down to 0/0 and still lock the brakes, the game still reads a value of 5/5.
This problem is only apparent on cars that lock up their brakes with the stock setting, such as the Huayra or F40.


I have to agree, running without ABS is much better now. I cant wait to go back online once they fix the brake Bias bug.

Has this been tested again since 1.03 update?

 

[mu22stang]

Is this why I can set the front brakes to 1 and rear to 10 and it still locks up in the front first?

The brake bias that we have access to in the tuning section and in the RA function is merely a multiplier to the hidden and unchangeable brake bias of each individual car.

Unfortunately, my experience is pretty poor with ABS at 0. Even with bias at 0/0, I don't even have the ability to apply full brake pressure (T500RS) for even a single moment before lock-up occurs. I don't even have time to progressevily relieve the pressure to avoid lock-up. It's instant. Videos I've seen that claim ABS at zero back this notion as the brake pressure telemetry shows less than 50% being applied.

Perhaps it's the cars I've tried, perhaps it's the hardware (no load cell), perhaps it's a lack of skill. I'm not convinced it's accurately modeled once ABS is off, but that's just me.

 

[Fuzzi0n]

The brake bias that we have access to in the tuning section and in the RA function is merely a multiplier to the hidden and unchangeable brake bias of each individual car.

Unfortunately, my experience is pretty poor with ABS at 0. Even with bias at 0/0, I don't even have the ability to apply full brake pressure (T500RS) for even a single moment before lock-up occurs. I don't even have time to progressevily relieve the pressure to avoid lock-up. It's instant. Videos I've seen that claim ABS at zero back this notion as the brake pressure telemetry shows less than 50% being applied.

Perhaps it's the cars I've tried, perhaps it's the hardware (no load cell), perhaps it's a lack of skill. I'm not convinced it's accurately modeled once ABS is off, but that's just me.

Is this in free run or normal races? Free run still has the uber powerful brake bug from what I can tell, whereas in a race it works fine. Using a DS3 I can drive without ABS and use full brakes in most cars, even with the braking set up to 5/4 or 7/6 in a road car.

 

[Lambob]

ABS 0 on the Toyota FT1, goes from ANTI-Lock brakes, to INSTA-lock brakes, regardless of any brake bias settings.

I do think it's a bug with current GT6 and perhaps unrevised T500 firmware for this game,

I hope to see improved support soon on the horizon for both. Currently, GT6, even at 1.03 is Not ready for primetime. Give it time. GT5 wasn't good until months after Spec2.0

As cheezy as driveclub appears to be of a game, I'll be playing that on PS4 while GT6 comes out from its coma.

 

[VBR]

I regularly drive an Aston Martin V12 Vantage stock on The Ring 24 hour with ABS off in Free Run & online. I can't remember feeling any difference in the braking between the two modes. At some points, especially when in an uphill braking zone, I can apply about 90% brakes without lock up with Brake Bias set to 6/3. Some braking zones lock up at about 70%. It depends whether they're downhill or uphill, & whether there are many bumps in the braking zone.

By the way, I'm using a G25 Racing Wheel with the V2 Nixim brake mod installed.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

I was driving a lotus with stock brakes and ABS 0 and did not lock the wheels even when I tried. With racing brakes is another story

 

[raytard]

Some cars lock if you look at the brake, some let you use 80-90% without any issues.

In my experience, brake bias online worked fine. Going from 5/5 to something like 3/2 or 2/1 made a perceptible difference in how hard I could brake.

I mean, I might have just been getting used to it, or driving more cautiously, but I had a whole lot less lockups after decreasing the bias.

 

[nasanu]

I use a T500RS and most cars are a pleasure with ABS0. Just don't put racing brakes on road cars, that is a massive mistake.

With most road cars I can cadence brake, locking only the inside front when pushing hard. The notion that the balance settings don't work means the braking physics as a whole are broken is stupidity.

 

[grog]

This was tested after 1.03

To those who dont notice this glitch its all in the car you're driving.

Cars that come with a decent default setup (Brakes that don't lock at 5/5) are fine, but those with default setting that are too strong (brakes that lock up at 5/5) suffer. Its also dependent on the tires you use, I use comfort soft or sport hard tires. Race tires and other sticky tires might mask this issue.

Try the Pagani Huayra out, it comes with very strong race brakes. The way this car behaves under brakes is night and day from online to career mode and it illustrates the issue very well.

 

[Morphisor]

I think the OP may be right in what he is saying though, that cars that come with ABS in real life may be harder to use without ABS in the game.

I honestly would hardly know which cars should have it, but it seems plausible.

 

[grannyshifter]

Grog, can you confirm this glitch first appeared in 1.02?

And that this glitch is the only thing to change ( regarding the brakes ) since 1.00?

I'm gonna test abs0 in career mode shortly. All I remember is how great abs0 was out of the box.

 

[Griffith500]

The difficulty is in finding the brake bias that works. Since, as far as I can tell, the bias setting is non-functioning in free-runs (offline), and the RA menu is only functional in certain situations, it's a bit of a pain to tune it.

But once it's there, it's very enjoyable. I just wish it were more consistent.


As for the Caterham, its twitchiness makes more sense in GT6's physics than it did in GT5. Quite predictable and controllable, esp. on comfort tyres.
The gear ratios are still wrong, though. I assume a missing 3/2 step-down, and fiddle the ratios accordingly:

Set Final drive to 3.800.
Set max speed to 112 mph (about 180 km/hr)

Set the individual ratios like this:
1: 4.884
2: 3.620
3: 2.812
4: 2.780
5: 2.197
6: 1.873

Then set the final drive to 2.780.

Sixth is about 10% too tall, the others within a few percent of stock - assuming the 3/2 step down for the layshaft is correct.

As seen here.

What's fun is that a 2nd gear burnout, stationary, takes two seconds to stop after releasing the throttle. It still has far too much engine inertia - drivetrain overhaul next, please PD!

 

[stb155]

I regularly drive an Aston Martin V12 Vantage stock on The Ring 24 hour with ABS off in Free Run & online. I can't remember feeling any difference in the braking between the two modes. At some points, especially when in an uphill braking zone, I can apply about 90% brakes without lock up with Brake Bias set to 6/3. Some braking zones lock up at about 70%. It depends whether they're downhill or uphill, & whether there are many bumps in the braking zone.

By the way, I'm using a G25 Racing Wheel with the V2 Nixim brake mod installed.

And if you try the same car/track in the career (IA Dreamcar last race is Nur24h i think) or in an arcade race ?

I did some driving with the F40 in the last days.
Pretty sure there is difference between arcade and free run.
If i use 3/6 in arcade i have no lock up and see front and rear change color a bit.
Same in free run gives locked front all the time and rear don't change color a bit.

My standard setting in career for the F40 is 6/8 and i can see on color that the rear helps with braking.
With this it's as you say, in compression/uphill i can use 100% for short time but on some places i have to be careful.

Same setting in free run is not much of a difference in front but i can see that the rear is not changing color.
I am also slower in free run, i guess that is because the rear is not braking enough and so the balance under braking is not good.

So what grog said about bias =5/5 in free run sounds plausible for me.

Not much experience online with ABS0, only a few races.
I had to use crazy low settings to not lock up all the time, 1/3 or something like that.
(NSX-R and BMW 1tii, but i never tried those offline without ABS)

 

[Morphisor]

ABS 0 on the Toyota FT1, goes from ANTI-Lock brakes, to INSTA-lock brakes, regardless of any brake bias settings.

I do think it's a bug with current GT6 and perhaps unrevised T500 firmware for this game,

I just drove the FT-1 in career mode. The standard balance is way too hard without ABS yes. However, I found that a setting of 1/1 was very manageable.

 

[Flinx]

With ABS off the sensitivity of your brake pedal shouldn't be raised as it currently is.

There ae few cars you can drive very well without ABS (Alpine A 110, RX 500 amongst others) while the vast majoritiy of cars with ABS disabled tend to lock the brakes as soon as you think about the upcoming corner.

Brakes locking with merely 10% of the pedal way is just plain wrong. At least i should be able to apply about 50 % of the brake pedal before any locking kicks in.

Using ABS does not mean the system is always involved in the braking itself. It just monitors the wheel and asap it's about to lock it modulates the pressure to avoid lock.

I had the chance to drive some cars with ABS disabled and aside form braking on the very limit you notice no difference between ABS enabled or disabled. If you are very close to the limit you feel the system kicking in because your brake pedal gets modulated by the pressure adjustment from the ABS.

Long story short wish: make driving without any aids including ABS realistic, if possible in the way i described above in terms of applying the brake. No modulatio of the pedal though since i know no hardware which can emulate this.

Fyi, i use a G25.

 

[Swagger897]

I really would like to try to start this but I feel like a kid sticking his hand to a doctor to get his finger pricked, and my face is the opposite way squinting.... Bad experiences with it in 5, and I feel like that locked me on ABS 1 (pun not intended) and I can't get off of it..

 

[grannyshifter]

Just tried my f40 in career mode without abs and it is indeed a perfect drive! Thanks for the tip grog!

Now I actually have a reason to play the career mode!

Hopefully this will get patched soon.

 

[grog]

Nice to hear grannyshifter, now the hard part is finding the right events to keep yourself entertained.

I mentioned the Huayra earlier but forgot to give my bias settings which are 1/3.

 

[Ghoa$t]

Doesn't make it any less broken. The handful of cars that manages to get it right don't make for the the hundreds of broken ones. It's actually worse than some may think.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Once PD had fixed the RA bug in GT5 there was no problem with ABS0, it'll be the same again in GT6. Eventually

The problem is that you can't adjust the balance online and it resets (as other people already said) to 5/5. That's not drivable for most people.

Offline there's so much grip that the ABS just slows you down anyway (or does me, at least), and if you're using a pad then it's very easy to adjust to no ABS.

 

[eran0004]

The only problem I had with no ABS was when I bought the brake kit. Then the brakes locked up really easy, but with the standard brakes I have no problem at all.

Not that I've tried every car there is...

 

[SillyBillyP]

I have found using ABS=0 with standard brakes in GT6 to be absolutely fine. Lock up is not a problem at all. I also used to use ABS=0 in GT5, but it was very difficult. It's much much better now.

Racing brakes with ABS=0 can be rather difficult with lock-up though (but still possible). In fact, racing brakes with ABS=0 is like using ABS=0 in GT5, I reckon.

 

[gambleboyen]

ABS=0 is supposed to be very difficult.

 

[SillyBillyP]

ABS=0 is supposed to be very difficult.

No, really, ABS=0 in GT6 with standard brakes is absolutely fine. There's no lock up unless you just slam on the brakes. Racing brakes are different

 

[gambleboyen]

No, really, ABS=0 in GT6 with standard brakes is absolutely fine. There's no lock up unless you just slam on the brakes. Racing brakes are different

Yes, but if you remove ABS from a normally ABS equipped car you really should expect it to behave a bit strange. Turning off ESP is fine for cars, but turning off ABS is normally not possible to do in real life.