Addiction

[TexRex]

Good way of screening is the AUDIT questionnaire:

https://patient.info/doctor/alcohol-use-disorders-identification-test-audit

'kay.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Good way of screening is the AUDIT questionnaire:

https://patient.info/doctor/alcohol-use-disorders-identification-test-audit

29 out of 40, boom, nailed it.

 

[stonesfan129]

I had a friend that was heavily addicted to escorts for a long time. At some point he just realized it isn't worth it. You end up spending all your money for a little temporary happiness. The risks were greater than the reward.

 

[BobK]

I had a friend that was heavily addicted to escorts for a long time. At some point he just realized it isn't worth it. You end up spending all your money for a little temporary happiness. The risks were greater than the reward.

Money can't buy love, so they say, but it can rent it for an evening.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Further to my last post, I'm on my 2nd bottle of spirit in 24 hours... I don't feel bad about it because a different friend lost her marriage, home and child because of drink... since I'm not married, don't have kids and hate my job I reckon I can't be an alcoholic... nothing to lose.. simples...

 

[Dennisch]

Quality reasoning.

 

[Famine]

I had a friend that was heavily addicted to escorts for a long time. At some point he just realized it isn't worth it.

Presumably when the Focus came out.

 

[TexRex]

 

[HenrySwanson]

Further to my last post, I'm on my 2nd bottle of spirit in 24 hours... I don't feel bad about it because a different friend lost her marriage, home and child because of drink... since I'm not married, don't have kids and hate my job I reckon I can't be an alcoholic... nothing to lose.. simples...

Have you tried cutting down?

 

[MatskiMonk]

Have you tried cutting down?

Yeah but I got less drunk, so....

.. Seriously though, I'm drinking more now than I ever have so I know I need to cut down. To me though it's not addiction so much as it is a crutch... If I were able to change other aspects of my life, I'd find it much easier to cut down on the booze.

 

[HenrySwanson]

Yeah but I got less drunk, so....

.. Seriously though, I'm drinking more now than I ever have so I know I need to cut down. To me though it's not addiction so much as it is a crutch... If I were able to change other aspects of my life, I'd find it much easier to cut down on the booze.

It's interesting you say that. Would you classify yourself as dependant rather than addicted to alcohol?

 

[TheCracker]

That proofs it. I have very strong willpower, something I always thought I had. If food is one of or the most difficult addiction to beat, then I will be able to beat everything.

I'm not addicted to any foods anymore and when I eat 100% raw cacao paste or powder I can easily stop eating it, even though my body says, eat it, get, buy it.

 

[kikie]

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That is not an addiction. I can stop eating these nuts immediately when I want to. I did in last year or the year before and I can do it again without a heartbeat.

BTW, I don't just eat them, I use these nuts for ingredients for preparing soup, sauces and so on. As a matter of fact, I use these nuts more for ingredients than eating them raw.

BTW I going to get another 5 kg of Cahew nuts today.

 

[TheCracker]

That is not an addiction. I can stop eating these nuts immediately when I want to.

Yeah, that's what all you nut-addicts say

 

[kikie]

Yeah, that's what all you nut-addicts say

Nope, I'm not a nut additc.

 

[Danoff]

You clearly haven't been addicted to anything mind altering.

(this is was in the context of smoking)

Do tell. People have been quitting smoking in droves, many of them without any assistance from professional. I consume alcohol on a semi-regular basis, and alcohol of course does alter your brain state and can be addictive. I wouldn't say I've ever been addicted to it, and while I had a drink last night, I hadn't had one for something like 3 months (this is a total guess, I'm really not sure how long it had been). Not that I was trying to achieve that, I just hadn't felt like it for that long.

So please explain. I think you're right, that I've never been "addicted" to anything mind altering. I'm not sure I've been addicted to anything actually (except caffeine). I guess when I was a kid there was a physical tick that I had to break, but it wasn't hard.

Speak for yourself.

You too, do explain.

I like to view that similar to the notion of self-diagnosing mental illness.

I'm not sure what you meant by this.


Edit:

I think the closest thing to a harmful addiction for me has probably been certain video games.

 

[TexRex]

I'm not sure what you meant by this.

If the brain is in an altered state--the result of a natural chemical imbalance or from the presence of chemicals not typically present--how can it be relied upon to address its condition?

 

[Dennisch]

I can't explain the feeling but it becomes the main thing on your mind when you're in "withdrawal".
A ridiculous urge takes over.

But, please, don't start to smoke just to prove a point. It's a nasty habit, and if it goes wrong you'll go on the hunt for stronger stuff and you'll end up prowling the streets for 10 dollar suck jobs to pay for the stuff.

 

[Danoff]

If the brain is in an altered state--the result of a natural chemical imbalance or from the presence of chemicals not typically present--how can it be relied upon to address its condition?

Ah, thanks for the clarification.

I can't explain the feeling but it becomes the main thing on your mind when you're in "withdrawal".
A ridiculous urge takes over.

But, please, don't start to smoke just to prove a point. It's a nasty habit, and if it goes wrong you'll go on the hunt for stronger stuff and you'll end up prowling the streets for 10 dollar suck jobs to pay for the stuff.

I'm really not that out of control of myself. And I don't believe that I could be. I thinking this is somewhat of a self-fulfilling prophecy. I'm not that out of control, therefore you don't find me prowling the streets looking for ways to get high. If I were, you'd find me prowling the streets looking for ways to get high.

I don't think you could take me as I exist now, get me high for, say, a month, and render me a hopeless addict.

 

[Dennisch]

Those have been famous last words before.

Believe when I say that there are drugs out there who will take over your life after the first hit. And that can all start with lighting up that first smoke.

You don't know how you'll react to the rush of hormones that will be released. It could be an absolute Meh moment, but it could also be a Hallelujah moment.

 

[Danoff]

Those have been famous last words before.

Believe when I say that there are drugs out there who will take over your life after the first hit. And that can all start with lighting up that first smoke.

You don't know how you'll react to the rush of hormones that will be released. It could be an absolute Meh moment, but it could also be a Hallelujah moment.

Which drugs, specifically.

 

[Dennisch]

Which drugs, specifically.

That's different for everyone. It all depends on the sort of rush you're after. And if it's readily available, which most drugs are, it starts with only the weekends, a week night here and there, and before you know it, it's the first thing to do after waking up and the last thing before you go to sleep.

 

[Danoff]

That's different for everyone. It all depends on the sort of rush you're after. And if it's readily available, which most drugs are, it starts with only the weekends, a week night here and there, and before you know it, it's the first thing to do after waking up and the last thing before you go to sleep.

That's non-falsifiable. I could keep trying drug after drug, and if I didn't get addicted, you'd just say that I haven't tried the right one for me yet. But the assumption is that there is one out there. Why are you making this assumption? I'm supposed to believe you that there are drugs out there that will be this potent for me, but you can't name them.


Edit:

It is as though you're saying that people who are addicted had no choice. And people who are not addicted are simply not trying the right drug. This is a religious belief.

 

[TexRex]

Ah, thanks for the clarification.

You're welcome. I can see how that may not have been apparent previously.

Now...I will say that I posed it as a rhetorical question, which is to say I don't think the brain can be relied upon to address its condition when its condition is significantly altered, but I wonder if you'd attempt to answer the question; I think it's relevant here.

As much as we are dependant upon our brains to execute innumerable voluntary actions and a wide variety of involuntary actions, it stands to reason that we would depend on it to address its condition. If its ability to do so is compromised, isn't our ability to perform actions compromised as well?

 

[Danoff]

As much as we are dependant upon our brains to execute innumerable voluntary actions and a wide variety of involuntary actions, it stands to reason that we would depend on it to address its condition. If its ability to do so is compromised, isn't our ability to perform actions compromised as well?

Science!

You use logic and reason, which are not susceptible to alteration (at least as far as we know within our universe). You can assess yourself by adhering strictly to the scientific method and come to the conclusion that you're impaired. Of course a brain which is chemically altered may not be inclined to, or capable of, such reasoning. But it should be apparent (possibly even to that brain) that it is not possible.

This, by the way, is the way we come to know all knowledge. We treat all of our brains as biased (impaired) and don't trust them to reach conclusions that aren't rigorously rooted in evidence and logic.

 

[TexRex]

Science!

You use logic and reason, which are not susceptible to alteration (at least as far as we know within our universe).

First, thank you for the response. I feel no need to address the bit quoted here further because it's something I can get behind completely.

You can assess yourself by adhering strictly to the scientific method and come to the conclusion that you're impaired.

Of course a brain which is chemically altered may not be inclined to, or capable of, such reasoning. But it should be apparent (possibly even to that brain) that it is not possible.

This, by the way, is the way we come to know all knowledge. We treat all of our brains as biased (impaired) and don't trust them to reach conclusions that aren't rigorously rooted in evidence that logic.

This is where it bumps for me, and strikes me as rather cyclical.

A brain is in an altered state and can't be trusted to process as it would when not subject to that altered state.

I think the root of the problem is how powerful our brains are; they really have too much power and must be stopped. Won't somebody please think of the children?

Jokes aside, we're so dependant upon our brains because everything we experience goes through them. We know it's powerful because it convinces us we're experiencing what we really are and we rely on its honesty. When it's under the influence of powerful chemicals, though, our brains have a tendency to lie to us...CONVINCINGLY!!!

This is purely anecdotal, but I know someone who smells certain colors; vibrant yellows in particular. You know those yellows with a hint of green in them and that you can occasionally still see even when you look away? Well he says he gets hit with a potent acrid smell when he sees those, not unlike that of a skunk's spray, and I've even seen his eyes well up as a result.

 

[PocketZeven]

That's different for everyone. It all depends on the sort of rush you're after. And if it's readily available, which most drugs are, it starts with only the weekends, a week night here and there, and before you know it, it's the first thing to do after waking up and the last thing before you go to sleep.

That's non-falsifiable. I could keep trying drug after drug, and if I didn't get addicted, you'd just say that I haven't tried the right one for me yet. But the assumption is that there is one out there. Why are you making this assumption? I'm supposed to believe you that there are drugs out there that will be this potent for me, but you can't name them.


Edit:

It is as though you're saying that people who are addicted had no choice. And people who are not addicted are simply not trying the right drug. This is a religious belief.

Some people are more sensitive to adiction then others. I dont think its right to assume that drugs and addiction are inevitable.

I have tried drugs (most except any requiring needles) during my lifetime and have not been addicted to any (except maybe smoking). I think the main reason what prevents me from using regularely is the thought of the inevitable hangover after use.

 

[Danoff]

Jokes aside, we're so dependant upon our brains because everything we experience goes through them. It's powerful because it convinces us we're experiencing what we really are and we rely on its honesty. When it's under the influence of powerful chemicals, though, our brains have a tendency to lie to us...CONVINCINGLY!!!

This is purely anecdotal, but I know someone who smells certain colors; vibrant yellows in particular. You know those yellows with a hint of green in them and that you can occasionally still see even when you look away? Well he says he gets hit with a potent acrid smell when he sees those, not unlike that of a skunk's spray, and I've even seen his eyes well up as a result.

There is a long list of cognitive biases. Our brains are wired in a flawed way from the beginning, even before adding substances to further alter them. The only hope that you have is to limit the opportunity for those flaws to present themselves, by adhering to a very strict set of rules that are rooted in the most fundamental inescapable facts that we know about our universe. Logic and math are two of the most concrete. Science requires inductive reasoning, which is open to flaws, but you go to war with the army you've got, not the army you want.

 

[TexRex]

There is a long list of cognitive biases. Our brains are wired in a flawed way from the beginning, even before adding substances to further alter them. The only hope that you have is to limit the opportunity for those flaws to present themselves, by adhering to a very strict set of rules that are rooted in the most fundamental inescapable facts that we know about our universe. Logic and math are two of the most concrete. Science requires inductive reasoning, which is open to flaws, but you go to war with the army you've got, not the army you want.

Oh absolutely, but what reason is there to expect a brain under the influence of powerful chemicals (be they native and not sufficiently counteracted by other native chemicals, or introduced through consumption) to perform any degree of reasoning?

 

[MatskiMonk]

I believe alcohol quite effectively shuts down two mechanisms in the brain that allow for effective reasoning... I can't remember quite how so this is from Google...

"Ethanol disrupts the amount of chemical messengers in the brain. Specifically it screws around with glutamate and gamma-aminobutyric acid, or GABA for short. When you drink, alcohol goes from your bloodstream to the brain. There, it amplifies the effects of GABA, a brain chemical that prevents some neurons from sending messages to each other. Think of it as a kind of silencer, keeping neuron "noise" down so that your brain can focus on the most important signals. If your brain were a theater, GABA would be the "shusher" responsible for quieting down those not on stage.

GABA does its shushing by controlling the flow of negatively charged particles, called ions, through the tiny channels on brain cells. Too many negative ions in a brain cell shut it down. So when GABA wants to shush a brain cell, it lets the ions flood in. When alcohol comes along, it floods the brain with GABA, which results in an increased flow of brain-cell-shushing ions. (This is why you can't drink if you're taking drugs like Xanax or Valium, which crank up the amount of GABA in your brain. It'd be too much sedation for your body to handle.)

Alcohol also blocks glutamate, a molecule that typically activates neurons, so you get a doubly inhibitory hit. (Glutamate is a gatekeeper, like GABA, but it lets in positive ions that get brain cells to send messages to each other.) So when you drink alcohol, you're essentially turning off two systems of your brain"
___

The most poignant experience I've had in this respect was after my first experience with what I believe was quite a potent hallucinogenic. At the beginning of the experience I was acutely aware of the changes to my perception, and despite knowing that they weren't 'real' it takes a lot to override what your brain is trying to tell you - which felt bizarre - like being cognisant of your impairments. Which, for me at least, is unlike alcohol... I mean, I know when I'm tipsy, drunk, battered etc... but I don't think you have the ability to interrogate your impairment when you're drunk, or rarely do. The hallucinogens were like being drunk and sober at the same time - this was a very odd sensation and difficult to accept for me. As the journey continued, I then made the mistake of swigging neat rum from the bottle (mostly out of habit) --- Where I'd been able to rationalise (to a point) the feelings and experiences I'd had earlier, the more drunk I got the less I could do that and the more I just fell into the experience. At the start, I'd written on a piece of paper in front of me, "There is no one here with you"... because I felt convinced a friend and his partner were in the house (despite knowing they were not). By the end of the bottle, my face was planted on the desk, I was having to think about breathing and believed that when I held my breath, time would stop. I was also confused about being stuck in a time loop because the same hook from Chris Isaacs "Wicked game" had been on repeat in my ears for what seemed like hours. The scribblings on the paper by the end of the night were all messages to people I thought were reading them. One upside (unrelated to alcohol probably) was that I may, for the first time, have seen colours my biologically colour deficient eyes had never seen - I gazed at my computer monitor in wonder at the Facebook logo thinking I'd never seen a blue like that before.

To me it was very noticeable that the introduction of alcohol removed my ability to logic or reason my way out what is effectively a dangerous state of confusion.... and having said that, I do not recommend it to anyone. Being aware that you are not in control of your mind is actually quite scary... with alcohol you know (hopefully) that your mind's okay - albeit possibly starved of oxygen and lacking certain controls - it's just you just can't seem to control your body properly... adding to that, a couple of times, for at least a year later, I'd wake up in the night, in a similar state of confusion, with the same paranoid feelings, and the same feeling of being aware you are not in control. That ain't nice, and the journey was not worth the risk.