Advice to PD from a GT Fanboy

[TeamCZRRacing]

I'd change the title, lol. Fanboys see absolutely no flaws with the game.

 

[Motor City Hami]

There's nothing that suggests they aren't trying to improve the fundamentals, everything shown so far points to me that they are. Quite bold statement on their website for example:

I have seen enough bold statements from PD. I will believe it when I see it come out. Remember all of the promises from Kaz for GT6. Course maker took forever and is nowhere near what was promised. Where is my monthly DLC? I have already spent over $100 on DLC between Forza 6 and Project Cars in the first two months of playing them. Big, big missed opportunity for Gran Turismo. And I am still waiting on the seven post rig for tuning cars in GT6.

GT6 is a good game. I enjoyed it. But, the lack of listening to the community and broken promises is enough to drive me to try other games. And now that I have seen them, PD is going to have to work to win me back for GT7.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I have seen enough bold statements from PD. I will believe it when I see it come out. Remember all of the promises from Kaz for GT6. Course maker took forever and is nowhere near what was promised. Where is my monthly DLC? I have already spent over $100 on DLC between Forza 6 and Project Cars in the first two months of playing them. Big, big missed opportunity for Gran Turismo. And I am still waiting on the seven post rig for tuning cars in GT6.

GT6 is a good game. I enjoyed it. But, the lack of listening to the community and broken promises is enough to drive me to try other games. And now that I have seen them, PD is going to have to work to win me back for GT7.

That is all one can do really, wait and see.

I don't think GT6 is a good game personally, probably worst in the series. Regardless of how good next GT game maybe, will still continue playing other games. Not sure how GT SPORT will be, not much of a online gamer myself. Haven't even done an online race in GT6 yet for example. However, my expectations are that the upcoming PS4 GT titles will be the best in the series by far.

 

[kilesa4568]

Reading that review of PCars, it sounds like a compulsory buy for the PS4 when I finally get one. I can put up with flaws in a game but the holy grail of driving games for me is the physics. You've (@Motor City Hami) made it sound like it's nigh on perfect.

If PD can equal that (perfection sounds hard to beat) I'll be happy.

I can't see GTS or 7 being too far off the mark with the physics though as they've been pretty close up to now, but even if it's 5-10% off, it'll still be a worthwhile buy. A couple of patches may even close the gap, if there is one.

I should mention I only ever buy GT for the consoles as I don't play or have any real interest in any other games but GT5 and 6, including their flaws, have been hugely enjoyable. I've got confidence in PD bringing something just as worthwhile to the table and if PCars is the new benchmark, they know what they have to do to have another successful game.

 

[apexpredator100]

PD are gonna have to make some key improvements to Gran Turismo Sport to deliver a great racing game, but I think people are overestimating how far behind GT is compared to games like PCARS, AC, and Forza. The latter titles mentioned all have their fair share of problems that each game's community are dissatisfied with and want to see fixed. Some problems are on a lesser scale compared to GT's problems, and others on a larger scale. If PD improves the physics, fixes the poor engine sounds, and also fixes the AI, then they wouldn't be much behind PCARS, AC, and Forza at all.

PD should just focus on making the best GT game, rather than making GT Sports into an average motorsports racing game. I don't think the game will go down that road, but I guess we will see as more information is revealed.

 

[killerjimbag]

PD are gonna have to make some key improvements to Gran Turismo Sport to deliver a great racing game, but I think people are overestimating how far behind GT is compared to games like PCARS, AC, and Forza. The latter titles mentioned all have their fair share of problems that each game's community are dissatisfied with and want to see fixed. Some problems are on a lesser scale compared to GT's problems, and others on a larger scale. If PD improves the physics, fixes the poor engine sounds, and also fixes the AI, then they wouldn't be much behind PCARS, AC, and Forza at all.

PD should just focus on making the best GT game, rather than making GT Sports into an average motorsports racing game. I don't think the game will go down that road, but I guess we will see as more information is revealed.

Have you played PCars? GT is so far behind,it's not even close.I'm in the GT fanboy club also. PCars is probably the best "Racing Sim I've played"

 

[apexpredator100]

Have you played PCars? GT is so far behind,it's not even close.I'm in the GT fanboy club also. PCars is probably the best "Racing Sim I've played"

No, since I don't have a PS4, but I frequent other sim racing forums such as this one, and followed the development of the game since 2012, and many people were dissatisfied with how broken the game was at launch. At launch the game was released with a lot of bugs, like cars randomly flying into the sky, game save issues, and the game isn't very controller friendly either. The state of the game has improved since launch with SMS doing a good job updating the game with major patches to fix these bugs.

I don't think GT is that much far behind other racing games like PCARS, due to that the most recent title was released on older hardware, and that there are some aspects of GT6 that are better than the latest sim racing games right now. GT Sport should be the ultimate gauge of where the GT series is compared to other racing games right now.

 

[Pete05]

Well one thing is for sure, with GT Sport being released on PS4, Polyphony Digital & Kaz as the developers of the GT franchise won't be able to use their boo hoo excuse of the PS3s limits being mean & limiting their ability to do what they promise and back away from.
If they give a damn, GT Sport better hit our realistic expectations out of the park or, following GT5 & GT6, it'll be three strikes and your out.
I'll look elsewhere for a racing simulator & I know I won't be the only one.

 

[kilesa4568]

I wish that some of the people on this forum would get some sense of perspective. When it comes to something as trivial as what driving game you want to play, it's a buyer's market. Not politics.

Don't like GT5 and 6? Get Forza for the 360. Don't like Forza either? Stump up for a new console/PC and play the games a lot of people are saying are better. Your choice.

Just move on if you feel that strongly about it.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I wish that some of the people on this forum would get some sense of perspective. When it comes to something as trivial as what driving game you want to play, it's a buyer's market. Not politics.

Don't like GT5 and 6? Get Forza for the 360. Don't like Forza either? Stump up for a new console/PC and play the games a lot of people are saying are better. Your choice.

Just move on if you feel that strongly about it.

What makes you think we don't move on?

 

[McLaren]

Don't know what he said. Anyway Google and Apple are giants and they took off well from the start and continued to grow. Forza has been on a decline. SMS aren't exactly the biggest studio and they have been around for a while too. PDI have very impressive partnerships with big car manufacturers and also with FIA. They are extending their strength in the market IMO. It is a good thing what PDI are doing as I think they are giving more awareness to the genre which should help other sim racing games exist. Don't think likes of Forza series or pCARS would exist if it weren't for GT showing there is a big market for these kind of games.

Off the top of my head, I think GT games has held / might hold these positions out of Sony first party games in terms of top selling games. Hopefully this trend continues for PS4.

PS1: 1st: GT1 2nd: GT2
PS2: 1st: GT3 2nd: GT4
PSP: 1st: GT
PS3: 1st: GT5 2nd: Potentially GT6

You do realize this is a reason why the games themselves continue to lag behind the competition, right? PD is so focused on creating partnerships with manufacturers, creating fantasy cars, & ignoring the flaws of the game.

There's nothing that suggests they aren't trying to improve the fundamentals, everything shown so far points to me that they are. Quite bold statement on their website for example:

If they can make an official FIA championship that will recognise a video game sort of at the same level as a real motorsport series, I think there is a good chance they will have the basic features that make a racing game a racing game.

Claims that everyone has heard before. The competition in the sim world is so strong in physics alone I don't see PD (based on their history) topping the best. Graphics? Yeah, they probably will nail that, but if they include Standards again, their age will show even more. Sound? Again, based on their history, I don't see them bringing the best sound to a racing sim.

Bold claims that will only set them up for a harsh backlash if they fail to deliver.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

You do realize this is a reason why the games themselves continue to lag behind the competition, right? PD is so focused on creating partnerships with manufacturers, creating fantasy cars, & ignoring the flaws of the game.

See these as reasons why they are ahead of the competition, much prefer FIA certified tracks than not for example. Really don't see them ignoring any flaws, rather actively trying to improve things. An example is the new sound system they have been working on, yet to hear it but they likely have been working on it for over 5 years. There is always ongoing research going forward with them and Sony and looks like something good is coming from it so games such as GT don't reach a saturation point. Also the PS4 will likely help make things easier to run as intended for the current generation.

Claims that everyone has heard before. The competition in the sim world is so strong in physics alone I don't see PD (based on their history) topping the best. Graphics? Yeah, they probably will nail that, but if they include Standards again, their age will show even more. Sound? Again, based on their history, I don't see them bringing the best sound to a racing sim.

Bold claims that will only set them up for a harsh backlash if they fail to deliver.

Don't think I heard such claims for any of the PS3 titles, should be a big step up compared to GT6 at least.

 

[Pete05]

 

[Imari]

And the difference between an electronically FIA certified track and an uncertified laser scan of a real life FIA certified track is...

Marketing works, people. Don't let anyone tell you that it doesn't.

When you've got randoms on the internet spreading the word about how much better your game is because it has a rubber stamp that means literally nothing, you know that all that money spent on the marketing department was worth it.

 

[Samus]

I dunno, when I drove Silverstone at the start of GT6 it was nothing special but once I knew the FIA had certified it, it changed everything.

Don't think I heard such claims for any of the PS3 titles, should be a big step up compared to GT6 at least.

Read the back of your GT5 and GT6 boxes.

"World famous driving simulator returns to to redefine the racing genre"

"A new level of driver freedom that will change the racing genre forever"

 

[Saidur_Ali]

And the difference between an electronically FIA certified track and an uncertified laser scan of a real life FIA certified track is...

Marketing works, people. Don't let anyone tell you that it doesn't.

When you've got randoms on the internet spreading the word about how much better your game is because it has a rubber stamp that means literally nothing, you know that all that money spent on the marketing department was worth it.

Laser scanning of track does not mean track is at level required for FIA certification.

"It was not until we completed the tests between our track data and the game’s track data that we fully appreciated the level of work and attention to detail that goes into the development of Gran Turismo 6. It was not just the tracks that have been precisely mapped out, but also the surrounding landscapes such as the run-off areas, grandstands and buildings."

If it was that easy (Literally nothing as you say), I imagine other developers would also get the tracks certified if marketing gain is that big.

I dunno, when I drove Silverstone at the start of GT6 it was nothing special but once I knew the FIA had certified it, it changed everything.



Read the back of your GT5 and GT6 boxes.

"World famous driving simulator returns to to redefine the racing genre"

"A new level of driver freedom that will change the racing genre forever"

It is more important for the next GT game where we can experience all the high quality data better. Assetto Corsa has probably the best physics and sound at the moment in racing games with really high quality content. They are probably the smallest studio for sim racing games so gives hope PD can also achieve something similar.

Don't see them statements anywhere near as bold as the statement for GT SPORT.

 

[Samus]

Laser scanning of track does not mean track is at level required for FIA certification

So what are the requirements for an FIA certification? What did PD do above and beyond other games with laser scanned tracks?

If it was that easy (Literally nothing as you say), I imagine other developers would also get the tracks certified if marketing gain is that big.

He didn't say it was easy, he said it was meaningless. Which it is.

Don't see them statements anywhere near as bold as the statement for GT SPORT.

Really, you don't think claiming that your game will change the genre forever is bold?

 

[Saidur_Ali]

So what are the requirements for an FIA certification? What did PD do above and beyond other games with laser scanned tracks?

You can see some of that criteria in last post, so far only developer that has achieved the certification. That is pretty much all me know.

He didn't say it was easy, he said it was meaningless. Which it is.

If difference is literally nothing between an uncertified laser scanned track and a certified track, surely it will be easy to get it certified? You may think it is meaningless but I don't. Kaz thinks it is the "biggest accolade the game has received in its history."

Makes a huge difference for me track quality being at a really high level. Going from say pCARS to Assetto Corsa regarding Circuit de Barcelona-Catalunya, the difference is like night and day. Having all the references spot on as I imagine FIA certification will help ensure makes it a great tool to learn tracks in more detail. It is meant to be a simulator so the more accurate it is, the better for me.

Really, you don't think claiming that your game will change the genre forever is bold?

It is not claiming to be the most realistic, changing the genre forever maybe in a good or bad way.

 

[Samus]

You can see some of that criteria in last post, so far only developer that has achieved the certification. That is pretty much all me know.

If difference is literally nothing between an uncertified laser scanned track and a certified track, surely it will be easy to get it certified?

No, because those two things are not directly connected are they? Just because you don't apply for a certification it doesn't mean your track is any less accurate. The GT tracks didn't get any more accurate between them being finished and being certified, they were already accurate, and so are other laser scanned tracks.

You may think it is meaningless but I don't. Kaz thinks it is the "biggest accolade the game has received in its history."

So how did it change your game when you knew those five tracks were certified? What does it even mean for a virtual track? The real world certification is stating how safe the track is for different levels of motorsport. When you're just created a virtual version of those same tracks, what are you rating? Just how similar it is? Guess what, laser scans are extremely similar.

Makes a huge difference for me track quality being at a really high level. Going from say pCARS to Assetto Corsa regarding Circuit de Barcelona-Catalunya, the difference is like night and day. Having all the references spot on as I imagine FIA certification will help ensure makes it a great tool to learn tracks in more detail. It is meant to be a simulator so the more accurate it is, the better for me.

pCARS Barcelona is not laser scanned, so a moot point. The difference between two different laser scanned tracks is virtually nil, as it should be. Do you think a PD laser scanned Barcelona, certified by the FIA, would be automatically more accurate than the AC one?

 

[Saidur_Ali]

No, because those two things are not directly connected are they? Just because you don't apply for a certification it doesn't mean your track is any less accurate. The GT tracks didn't get any more accurate between them being finished and being certified, they were already accurate, and so are other laser scanned tracks.

If marketing gain is big for PD, surely it will be in the interests of the developers who are less well known? They may well be even more accurate in certain areas, all we know is PD are the only ones that have managed to get tracks FIA certified.

So how did it change your game when you knew those five tracks were certified? What does it even mean for a virtual track? The real world certification is stating how safe the track is for different levels of motorsport. When you're just created a virtual version of those same tracks, what are you rating? Just how similar it is? Guess what, laser scans are extremely similar.

Makes me more interested in trying this tracks out on PS4 to experience the detail and also knowing what I learn from these tracks will be similar to what it might be like in the real world.

Laser scans can be very different.

pCARS Barcelona is not laser scanned, so a moot point. The difference between two different laser scanned tracks is virtually nil, as it should be. Do you think a PD laser scanned Barcelona, certified by the FIA, would be automatically more accurate than the AC one?

I know it isn't but shows the differences that can be achieved as level of accuracy increases. The difference between two different laser scanned tracks can be quite large. Firstly depending on when it was done, secondly on how it was implemented and thirdly with the level of accuracy track was scanned. It may be more accurate in some areas and less accurate in others.

 

[Samus]

How do you know that other games could get their tracks certified, even if they wanted to and they were up to standard? This is clearly a marketing deal between the two, which is great for them, but there is nothing to suggest this is something anyone could apply for.

There is zero evidence that PD scan tracks in any higher detail than anyone else and nor is there any evidence their tracks are more accurate. All we know is they are "FIA certified" and since there is no published criteria for that we have nothing to determine how they compare to other laser scanned tracks, or what that certification even means.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

How do you know that other games could get their tracks certified, even if they wanted to and they were up to standard? This is clearly a marketing deal between the two, which is great for them, but there is nothing to suggest this is something anyone could apply for.

There is zero evidence that PD scan tracks in any higher detail than anyone else and nor is there any evidence their tracks are more accurate. All we know is they are "FIA certified" and since there is no published criteria for that we have nothing to determine how they compare to other laser scanned tracks, or what that certification even means.

There is nothing to suggest this is exclusive.

We just know it is at a standard the governing body for world motor sport are happy with relative to their own track data.

 

[McLaren]

See these as reasons why they are ahead of the competition, much prefer FIA certified tracks than not for example. Really don't see them ignoring any flaws, rather actively trying to improve things. An example is the new sound system they have been working on, yet to hear it but they likely have been working on it for over 5 years. There is always ongoing research going forward with them and Sony and looks like something good is coming from it so games such as GT don't reach a saturation point. Also the PS4 will likely help make things easier to run as intended for the current generation.

Really? That's why the physics are falling further behind? Promised features since GT5 are finally being implemented? Why the game uses PS2-era assets? Why the accuracy of the vehicles' sound has been utterly atrocious since GT4?

Yeah, let's keep adding in content with our partnerships. That will surely keep the fans happy while these other issues remain visible.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Really? That's why the physics are falling further behind? Promised features since GT5 are finally being implemented? Why the game uses PS2-era assets? Why the accuracy of the vehicles' sound has been utterly atrocious since GT4?

Yeah, let's keep adding in content with our partnerships. That will surely keep the fans happy while these other issues remain visible.

PD best get the modellers also working on the physics, features and sound then.

Let's hope they manage to improve the game magically as they are ignoring the flaws in the game and that seems only way they will be addressed.

 

[McLaren]

PD best get the modellers also working on the physics, features and sound then.

Let's hope they manage to improve the game magically as they are ignoring the flaws in the game and that seems only way they will be addressed.

Never said a word about the people who model the cars. PD seems more focused on partnerships & extra content than addressing the flaws.

Your grasping for what little argument you have left.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Never said a word about the people who model the cars. PD seems more focused on partnerships & extra content than addressing the flaws.

Your grasping for what little argument you have left.

Yeah they probably magically add extra content to the games, right?

 

[McLaren]

Yeah they probably magically add extra content to the games, right?

Still assuming I think modelers are responsible for everything & continuing to miss the point that PD is far more focused on external than internal.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Still assuming I think modelers are responsible for everything & continuing to miss the point that PD is far more focused on external than internal.

How do you think they add extra content? Do you think the people that work on core parts of the game are twiddling their thumbs due to partnerships being formed like with FIA?

 

[McLaren]

How do you think they add extra content? Do you think the people that work on core parts of the game are twiddling their thumbs due to partnerships being formed like with FIA?

I know how they add extra content. How about the modelers focus on bringing more of the PS2-era cars up-to-date than a fantasy car?

Since you want to keep being daft & keep your blinders focused on the modelling staff. The point remains none of this matters if PD concentrate more effort on other parts of the game. It does not matter who does what, this is a fault that falls on the management team to remain focused on overly detailed vehicles & graphics, and not finding ways to improve the physics or bring on extra staff to deliver on other features.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I know how they add extra content. How about the modelers focus on bringing more of the PS2-era cars up-to-date than a fantasy car?

Since you want to keep being daft & keep your blinders focused on the modelling staff.

Why not do both? The Vision GT cars help market the game well too.

I'm not focusing on modelling staff but seems that is what you want to focus on at the moment. Why not mention what you think the people that work on core parts of the game are doing as you seem to think that these external activities are so much that they are focused on ignoring flaws of the game.

I see you added more to your post. That is your assumption they are not trying to improve the physics or adding extra staff to deliver on features.