AI: Which game had it right?

[nangu]

Grand Prix 4, even with a few flaws, was the better AI I have driven on a sim racing game.

A good AI has to be fast, attack and defend position, and don't slam on other cars (being human or other AI), follow different lines and have different personalities. Grand Prix 4 had all of these.

GT5 AI is not a challenge. You have to down the level of the car to get a minimal challenging race in regards to pace, but you have to deal with the other inconsistencies mentioned in this thread, which are very frustrating.

The "chase the rabbit" races are the evidence of the poor AI programming GT5 has. They have to balance the challenge by having to chase the AI from the back because car to car fight is a piece of cake to the player, so not a challenge at all.

GTR2 had a good AI system too, but IMO Grand Prix was better.

 

[FiftyBelowZero]

I loved GT3's A.I. It was really competetive.

 

[dr_slump]

So, many people define a good AI by only looking at their speed?

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

So, many people define a good AI by only looking at their speed?

Apparently so. I personally prefer that they drive a bit more real, make mistakes from time to time, try to drive clean but get aggressive at times and so on. I like the AI in GT5 better than many of the games I have played and I think it is much better than it was in GT4. I also like it better than the faster AI in Forza 4.

All in all the way PD has did the AI in some of the seasonal races can be quite challenging even though they are not that fast. The AI in Forza is faster but for me the only challenge is not getting wrecked on the way past the AI and in some cases you start on the poll so even that is not an issue.

I know that in FM4 I can set a online race with the hardest possible AI settings, turn off collisions so they can't wreck me and then lap them in every race with ease on most tracks. I even give them a class up on me sometimes and still beat them without much trouble if the race is more than 5 miles

 

[Foxiol]

GTR2's AI isn't that much intelligent. It's just fast, so it isn't that great of an example on this day and age.

Forza4 is as much of an offender as GT5 is. Of course they aren't the same, as both dealt with some problems the other has.

Race 07 (better than GTR2), R3E (based in Race07 but with adaptative AI´s depending in your times) and rFactor 2 at the moment have the bests AI´s in the market.

In rFactor 2 if you put the AI´s (depending in your skills as well) at 110% and 40% aggressive it is almost like racing against real people. you hardly even notice the difference. But it also depends in how well is the "script" on each circuit.
But ISI is doing a great job with AI´s. Also collisions are very realistic with inertia and contact as well.

 

[BlazeTheCat05]

So, many people define a good AI by only looking at their speed?

There's not much of a point in having A.I. that occasionally makes mistakes if they can't keep up with an evenly matched car being driven by the player.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

There's not much of a point in having A.I. that occasionally makes mistakes if they can't keep up with an evenly matched car being driven by the player.

You have to consider that all players are different. The AI may be able to blow away some players and get lapped by others.

No AI would be able to keep up with all of us and if it could then it would be impossible for 99% of the players to win a race.

If the AI were to be much faster then they would almost have to make it adjustable or auto scale to the user playing else it would be to hard for most players especially those first time players.

 

[BlazeTheCat05]

You have to consider that all players are different. The AI may be able to blow away some players and get lapped by others.

No AI would be able to keep up with all of us and if it could then it would be impossible for 99% of the players to win a race.

If the AI were to be much faster then they would almost have to make it adjustable or auto scale to the user playing else it would be to hard for most players especially those first time players.

To remedy this situation I feel that based on your performances in the License Tests, the A.I. will be adjusted accordingly. Fail or get bronzes all the way through and you'll face beginner A.I., silvers and golds will reveal moderately skilled A.I., and golding everything will unleash brutal and very skilled A.I. This basically knocks out two birds with one stone, as not only is the driver skill situation solved, but also it utilizes the license system, a feature included but severely overlooked in GT5.

 

[NCRthree]

To remedy this situation I feel that based on your performances in the License Tests, the A.I. will be adjusted accordingly. Fail or get bronzes all the way through and you'll face beginner A.I., silvers and golds will reveal moderately skilled A.I., and golding everything will unleash brutal and very skilled A.I. This basically knocks out two birds with one stone, as not only is the driver skill situation solved, but also it utilizes the license system, a feature included but severely overlooked in GT5.

Interesting idea. I still would want to have a sliding scale with some variables. Aggression and speed at the minimum. Still, I'll be pleasantly surprised if there's any AI changes for the better.

 

[BlazeTheCat05]

Interesting idea. I still would want to have a sliding scale with some variables. Aggression and speed at the minimum. Still, I'll be pleasantly surprised if there's any AI changes for the better.

Agreed. It seems with each passing game, the A.I. become more and more of an afterthought in my opinion.

 

[ANKZ]

I'm really happy with the AI in pCars. I uploaded a video so you can see and comment what you think about it. The driving and video sucks but the AI is the point here.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4cawtSKPe38&feature=plcp

 

[MrWednesday]

Some tracks they are waaay too slow. Daytona and the loop at Cape Ring come to mind first.

I think the GT5 AI doesn't understand how to account for track camber when it figures what the maximum speed is that it can carry through a turn. They're also way too slow through the turns at Indy.

 

[TheeFrogmanlego]

I think the GT5 AI doesn't understand how to account for track camber when it figures what the maximum speed is that it can carry through a turn. They're also way too slow through the turns at Indy.

This could be fixed by a camber multiplier ..

 

[mr_serious]

None of them got it right. It was sort of challenging in GT1 for a while, but mainly due to having to drive using digital d-pad.

Since then they seem to have only been tweaking their original & totally inadequate algorithm which is easy to beat on analogue sticks and utterly useless against wheel & pedals.

 

[sems4arsenal]

If they adjusted certain parameters and fixed some boneheaded moves on some tracks, it would actually be really competitive. It was considerably better than any of the previous games in terms of player and track awareness. GT4 in particular made it so certain cars (anything FF, cars with bad brakes, cars with good brakes) lap after lap after lap would make the exact same mistakes; so GT5 is much better than that.


GT40 (and Mercedes SL, and Saleen S7, and Cizeta) at Le Sarthe would shoot off Hunaudières into the sand every time. FF cars would understeer into the walls surrounding chicanes (like on George V) every time. Cars with loose tails would spin out on certain corners every time. None of that happened in GT5 outside of specific instances, and they actually drove somewhat inconsistently lap to lap as if they were actual beings.

When I get bored I'd just follow them and watch as they do so every single lap,also the Cizeta kept sliding in every corner in the game

Edit:You can't Bold colored text ,damn it

 

[CAMAROBOY69]

GT4 had the worst AI in the series, and every game before that had rubber banding. None of them got it right.

Exactly. GT is and always has been known for terrible AI. Thus, the lack of damage in this series.

Easy test for AI. When the race starts, let the AI continue and you stay at the starting line. Park your car in the middle of the racing line, wait for the AI to come back around, guaranteed to be hit by the AI in GT1,GT2, GT3, and GT4. This has been tested many times. It was better in GT5, but still not that great compared to other games.

 

[ScouserInExile]

So, many people define a good AI by only looking at their speed?

Yeah, this is the point I made further up. If the CPU cars just follow the racing line at high speed, this could be considered "competitive". What it couldn't be considered is "good AI". Good AI should react to what is going on around them, which is something GT's CPU controlled cars have never really done.

 

[zippy_the_cat]

I think the GT5 AI doesn't understand how to account for track camber when it figures what the maximum speed is that it can carry through a turn. They're also way too slow through the turns at Indy.

It's long been obvious the AI in GT5 doesn't handle sweeping turns at all well, hence its noncompetitive nature on tracks like Cape Ring and Trial Mountain. It does better on tight-and-twisty tracks like Autumn Ring.

 

[BoneSawTX]

"Le Mans 24 Hours" on Dreamcast and PS2 is the best i've experienced.

 

[MrWednesday]

It's long been obvious the AI in GT5 doesn't handle sweeping turns at all well

Also an issue, but my perception is that there is an issue with camber independent of the issue with sweeping turns. I think the best comparison is the RH sweeper on R246, which is flat, vs. the turns in the ovals or the spiral ramp on Cape Ring, both of which are cambered. The AI is a little slow on the R246 sweeper. It's a lot slow on the spiral ramp and the turns in the ovals.

 

[Exorcet]

One of the main problems is that people overlook how they're using overpowered cars on superior tyres.

To be honest, I think that's just an excuse people have come up with. Using "fair" cars doesn't work. You need to handicap yourself. And even then, that doesn't do anything about AI blocking, brake checking, or freaking out randomly.

The question is if the AI should adapt to your car and tyres choice or if the events should get more restricted.

Neither. We need suggested restrictions, and faster AI. That's it. That would make it such that when you pick a "fair" car, the AI will be as fast as you, and you'll know what cars are fair if you want a fair race.

I personally also don't like how easily they let you pass and how often they simply walk on the brakes an let you pass without any serious effort. As if you were the king of the road.
Another thing is the lack of ability to defend their position by chosing a defensive line.

These are the real problems.

 

[The Flex]

Both GT4 & 5 had bunch of clown AIs.

 

[MrWednesday]

These are the real problems.

Most of which comes down to, basically, awareness of the line other cars are driving and understanding of how to drive alternate lines through turns. Conceptually, it's not all that hard to describe what they ought to do, but practically, it may be very difficult.

 

[CoolColJ]

Time to bring out some of LOL worthy GT5 AI vids
To be fair these were in the older versions, AI is much better now



AI Pit


AI Punt

 

[bigspleen]

Gran Turismo has embarassing AI, every racing game I have played the last 5-6 years has had way better, There is no excuse for such poorly done racing and AI in a game where you are predominantly racing.

If you are defending this AI you are a major blind fanboy or simply have not played anything else.

 

[CoolColJ]

Gran Turismo has embarassing AI, every racing game I have played the last 5-6 years has had way better, There is no excuse for such poorly done racing and AI in a game where you are predominantly racing.

If you are defending this AI you are a major blind fanboy or simply have not played anything else.

Better than some other games in certain areas

 

[Samus]

Ah yes, the good old parked car test. Because that is surely the best way to decide which is better, you know since that is the main way we interact with them. Oh wait....

 

[CoolColJ]

Ah yes, the good old parked car test. Because that is surely the best way to decide which is better, you know since that is the main way we interact with them. Oh wait....

Well if I spun out, I sure don't want the AI smacking into me like it wasn't aware I was there.
It's a sign of "intelligence", if artificial

It's just one trait of a good AI, that's all, something later versions of GT5 improved over earlier GT games.

 

[mister dog]

Well if I spun out, I sure don't want the AI smacking into me like it wasn't aware I was there.
It's a sign of "intelligence", if artificial

It's just one trait of a good AI, that's all, something later versions of GT5 improved over earlier GT games.

I've been playing Forza for almost a year now, and the AI is quite competitive. The only negative feature of Forza's AI is that they are sometime too agressive and bump you off the road (mainly during packed starts), but in general they are fast and not blind at all. Many times i had to laugh with my own errors when i left the door a tiny bit open; and the AI would catch me by surprise and pass me. Also i've been passed a couple of times on the outside of fast corners by the AI, something that would never happen in GT...

I think that's why they eventually installed that dumb "catch the rabbit" formula in GT5, just so you have a bit of a challenge as you have to pass all the bots in a couple of laps... quite sad from PD's side that in those 15 years they are tweaking their physics models like a bunch of maniacs; they totally ignored the AI amongst other things...

 

[tankuroded]

Edit:You can't Bold colored text ,damn it

Because his text is already bolded, that's why.

On topic, this phrase can describe everything about this subject: nothing is perfect, everything is imperfect.