AI: Which game had it right?

[lintels123]

Haha, i may have caused a bit of this confusion. I have a good idea of what rubber banding is. I was just asking if Grid specifically had it. It seems there may be some slight rubber banding in it. If they did, its some of the best arcade racing i've ever had haha.

 

[HKS racer]

Haha, i may have caused a bit of this confusion. I have a good idea of what rubber banding is. I was just asking if Grid specifically had it. It seems there may be some slight rubber banding in it. If they did, its some of the best arcade racing i've ever had haha.

LOL! In my opionion yes it has.

 

[lintels123]

LOL! In my opionion yes it has.

Haha alright thanks. Now that i think about it... rubber banding screwed me over alot in Grid.

 

[ScouserInExile]

Everyone seems to be confusing "AI" and "difficulty". They are not the same thing and they don't really even go hand in hand. You can have rubbish AI and still be very difficult - a prime example being the Pro Vitz / Yaris race in GT3: the CPU cars blindly follow the racing line, nose to tail and never deviate from this, but they're still nearly impossible to beat because they do it at very high speed.

Decent AI should make you think you are racing against humans, not CPU controlled cars. They should react to what is going on around them, try different things at different points of the race, occasionally make mistakes... all the things you would expect a human to do. As it is, the CPU drivers follow the racing line and perform seemingly pre-set actions at pre-set points - the only differences being how quickly they do it depending on how difficult PD want the race to be. I would like to see the CPU cars early on driving badly, not just slowly and later on they should drive well, not just quickly, and preferably actually battle for position...

 

[CoolColJ]

GT5. in arcade mode with Aggression slider on max they are OK, in everything else they go into their "Drone mode" :/

Aggression slider on max


We need to be able to set the tyres the AI uses!

 

[HKS racer]

We need to be able to set the tyres the AI uses!

Would be very useful.

 

[Dodzzz]

I remember playing a game called Toca something.. (on PS2) it was sooo hard to win a race!!

 

[Samus]

GT5. in arcade mode with Aggression slider on max they are OK, in everything else they go into their "Drone mode" :/

Aggression slider on max


We need to be able to set the tyres the AI uses!

They might not back off as much but they're still far too slow. I didn't watch the whole video but you flew past two cars with ease in turn one and then going up the Kemmel straight you made two mistakes and were a fair distance behind the next car yet still managed to outbrake them and pass them into the next corner. Far too slow.

I don't see what real use setting the AI tyres would be, that's just the opposite of what we do now, giving ourselves a crutch.

 

[calahan]

GT4 A.I was crazy, it drive like someone who had 100 lives. always recklessly driving and hit another car a lot!
GT5 A.I was lot smoother and better, at least A.I managed dodge if someone wanted to hit them in the front.

 

[Jawehawk]

The AI in GT5 isn't horrible by any stretch of the imagination. It just needs to be faster. I've often wondered what it would be like if A-Spec races had B-spec AI, where they would become more compititive when you are racing close to them.

If GT had AI like Race '07, it would be amazing!

 

[TJ13]

The AI in GT5 acted very unpredictably. On most tracks, they slowed up if you were on their tail or on their side, nearly coming to a complete stop sometimes. However they swipe the walls on Daytona and Indy Super Speedway due to carrying too much speed.

To add the Daytona one they use their breaks in the corner. (on any car)

Also notice that if you are doing the GT/P they just sit in the middle of the race track after spinning. (Happened to me a few times in the FGT seasonal)

 

[NCRthree]

GT5. in arcade mode with Aggression slider on max they are OK, in everything else they go into their "Drone mode" :/



We need to be able to set the tyres the AI uses!

Arcade mode AI is much better than any other GT5 mode. I do a fair amount of driving in Arcade but there's some parameters to follow if you want it to be competitive. No passing on lap 1(I drop to last place to start), use stock vehicles, add ballast, drop a tire grade from AI, no ABS or other aids. At least they will fight for a turn and they are faster than ASpec or Seasonals. I've had many fun races trying to reel in an opponent for several laps.

One could argue that you shouldn't have to do all that and I agree.

The AI in Arcade is still infuriating in several respects:

Hitting their brakes on exits occasionally.
The field will sometimes bunch up like a train behind a slow car.
They are easy to spook. You can invoke them to "park" by getting close or touching them before a turn.
Bad lines especially at the Nordschleife.
Some tracks they are waaay too slow. Daytona and the loop at Cape Ring come to mind first.

I think the GT5 AI is better than any previous title but only in Arcade. The adjustable Aggression setting is alright but could be far more versatile. A 10 level difficulty setting with speed variance for starters.

Only other racing games I've used are Shift 2 and F1 2012. Both have a more dynamic AI than GT5.

 

[Scuderia Paul]

Asking what GT game had the AI right is pointless as GT is not renowned for competitive AI. ToCA Race Driver 3 had a decent set-up and NFS Shift, whilst slightly overly aggressive, is an example of competitive AI.

 

[CoolColJ]

They might not back off as much but they're still far too slow. I didn't watch the whole video but you flew past two cars with ease in turn one and then going up the Kemmel straight you made two mistakes and were a fair distance behind the next car yet still managed to outbrake them and pass them into the next corner. Far too slow.

I don't see what real use setting the AI tyres would be, that's just the opposite of what we do now, giving ourselves a crutch.

Only on the first lap, they were better on the other laps, after I passed the slower cars. Some of the AI are more timid and slower than the others. That RUF pretty much stayed with me throughout the race

The faster AI just pull away at the front
And there is no way I catch up to other cars in front of me

You end up having races within the race as different groups of cars start to form, just like in real life

 

[ECGadget]

I don't know... I think a combination of GT3 and GT5. I was too young to really analyse GT2's AI.

But the best AI I've ever raced against (even though the game itself is not a simulator like GT and closer to an arcade) is GRID on maximum difficulty. I've never had battles that close on GT5 before.

 

[PletdeKoe]

I remember that in gt2 the AI couldn't take the corner on top of the hill in Seatle. They always crashed the barrier to take that right turn.

 

[Tornado]

But GT5 is even worse. AI park the car as soon the player approach them and their pace is very SLOW. Seasonal events are catch the rabbit events.

As opposed to GT4, where they would instead just plow into you in all situations while still going very slow (especially in Special Events, which would net you a penalty for your trouble); occasionally crashing lap after lap if the circumstances aligned?


And GT4 had catch the rabbit events too. They were just called Driving Missions; and there were even a few in A-Spec mode that were functionally the same (Opel Speedster Cup).

 

[Scuderia Paul]

I remember that in gt2 the AI couldn't take the corner on top of the hill in Seatle. They always crashed the barrier to take that right turn.

I have seen many pile-ups at the entrance to the pit at Spa-Francorchamps in GT5. I think it has been sorted in an update as I have not seen it in a long time.

 

[Tenacious D]

I echo what NCRthree and CoolColJ said. Except for a writing break for a few months, I've been doing almost nothing but Arcade racing for more than a year. When you get past the middle point or so in the field, they seem more like humans. They hate getting passed and will fight to catch you. When you get a certain distance ahead then they tend to wimp out, but I've been caught quite a few times by them too when I thought I wouldn't see them again.

By the way, don't forget there's a huge draft channel behind every car. That's how they "rubber band," and I use it to catch them too.

I think GT5's A.I. is rather comparable to other racers, as I haven't been wowed by any of them more than another.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

Of all of the GTs, I think GT5 has the best A.I. so far. Sure, it's basically 'catch the rabbit', but it's better than the rubberband A.I. in GT1 and 2, and GT3 & 4's A.I. wasn't too bright either. I recall playing GT3, racing in the "Stars and Stripes" event and always seeing the Shelby Cobra 427 spin out in the first harpin, it did it on the second lap as well; that made that race too easy (in the game's defense though, it was the beginner league; it supposed to be easy).

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

I've read a lot of comments pertaining to Artificial intelligence is what makes a game more challenging I remember gt4 out of the whole series it had it right. So my question to you all is what game out of the series had it right. And if there's any way the PD can implement it into the next gt.

GT4? You are kidding right? I loved GT4 but there were 2 things that jumped out at me right away the sound and the AI.

In GT4 the AI drove on the line at all times without exception assuming they had not wrecked of course if you happened to be on the line and passing the AI in a corner the AI would without fail act like you were not there and bump you.

This was a very noticeable and major improvement in GT5

 

[Giygas]

If they adjusted certain parameters and fixed some boneheaded moves on some tracks, it would actually be really competitive. It was considerably better than any of the previous games in terms of player and track awareness. GT4 in particular made it so certain cars (anything FF, cars with bad brakes, cars with good brakes) lap after lap after lap would make the exact same mistakes; so GT5 is much better than that.


GT40 (and Mercedes SL, and Saleen S7, and Cizeta) at Le Sarthe would shoot off Hunaudières into the sand every time. FF cars would understeer into the walls surrounding chicanes (like on George V) every time. Cars with loose tails would spin out on certain corners every time. None of that happened in GT5 outside of specific instances, and they actually drove somewhat inconsistently lap to lap as if they were actual beings.

Haha, i remember that. Sometimes when i got bored i would race against Group C cars on Racing Super Softs, and whenever they got to the last chicane they would all drift around them. It was pretty funny to watch sometimes.

The inconsistencies of the AI in GT4 was pretty much why the NSX was one of the only cars i would let B Spec drive. Around Le Mans they would get around faster than the Viper GTS.

 

[LeMansAid]

Very strange thread. I am not a GT basher, but I cant help thinking of the mighty Type O Negative and their compilation album entitled "The Least Worst Of".

 

[CT230R]

GT2's AI are hilarious, they always seemed to spin off at the corkscrew at Laguna Seca whenever they were driving a muscle car and take forever trying to get back on to the track

 

[1241Penguin]

I am going to theorize that the reason for "catch the rabbit" races in GT5 are caused by the fact that the cars don't start in a more traditional grid formation, rather, they start in a long line, hence giving the leading car a huge advantage compared to the car in 16th place.

 

[SkylineObsession]

GT5 has the best AI as if you're parked in the middle of the track they quite obviously slow down and avoid you most of the time.

However when they did one of the first game updates they changed the AI to reduce collisions etc, which made them a lot dumber when approaching them from the side/back, where they suddenly brake to avoid you hitting them.
If PD reverted/modified that bit again then it would have improved racing a bit.

But... you adapt to it. Come to expect that thats what they'll do if you get too close, so keep back a certain distance and take the first chance you get to pass. Not that hard.

 

[ShiftingGears]

No GT game has got AI right.

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

No GT game has got AI right.

Has any racing game got it right? They all seem to be lacking a bit. GT5 the AI is not that fast but it is an improvement over GT4 and is better than many other games I have played.

 

[lintels123]

Anyone remember the A.I. in the original Flatout for ps2? Of what i remember, atleast at the time, the a.i. was very fast and didn't let up when you were running them down. Yes, the game is very arcade-ish and was based around crashing others to the point where drivers flew out of the car. Yet the racing, again of what i remember, was very tough. I remember even a 10 lap race i did where i battled it out with 2 a.i.s and lost in a 3 wide photo finish. i tried making the move on the leader while the 3rd place car dived below both of us on the last turn and took the win. Very fun game... it should be brought back to the ps store as a ps2 classic, along with the original Stuntman.

 

[IceMan PJN]

I am going to theorize that the reason for "catch the rabbit" races in GT5 are caused by the fact that the cars don't start in a more traditional grid formation, rather, they start in a long line, hence giving the leading car a huge advantage compared to the car in 16th place.

It's been a few years, almost, but as I recall they patched the starts so that many of the standing starts were replaced with rolling starts. Grid starts are the best starts in motorsports, and they shouldn't have removed most of them from GT5.