Aliens

[Dotini]

One witness of the NYC UFO of 10/13/10 described the object as resembling a "jellyfish".
http://tvtranscend.blogspot.com/2010/10/jellyfish-witness-description-of-ufo.html

 

[Anes]

And not one Men in Black joke...

 

[Sparty_McFly]

There is life... but it may not be intelligent. Or it may have killed itself.

 

[Teh_Loserer]

I personally find it impossible not to believe in extra terrestrial life. Ever since I saw Carl Sagan's Cosmos so many years ago and was introduced to the Drake Equation, I've been pretty much sold on the idea.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I know they're out there. But statistically speaking, I'm convinced that somewhere, somewhen, there is extra terrestrial life.

The Drake equation states that where:

N = the number of civilizations in our galaxy with which communication might be possible;
and
R* = the average rate of star formation per year in our galaxy
fp = the fraction of those stars that have planets
ne = the average number of planets that can potentially support life per star that has planets
fℓ = the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop life at some point
fi = the fraction of the above that actually go on to develop intelligent life
fc = the fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space
L = the length of time such civilizations release detectable signals into space.

The "pessimistic" example cited by wikipedia (I know, just bear with me...) proposes:
R* = 10/year, fp = 0.5, ne = 0.01, fl = 0.13, fi = 0.001, fc = 0.01, and L = 1000 years
N = 10 × 0.5 × 0.01 × 0.13 × 0.001 × 0.01 × 1000 = 0.000065 Meaning that we are almost certainly alone in our galaxy.

But think universally and multiply that .000065 by the number of galaxies. Estimates range from 80B to over 500B galaxies in our universe, but let's be conservative and call it 1 billion. You come up with 65000 communicative civilizations in our universe.

I realize it's all speculation, and that there are many variables and estimates involved, but even using skeptical, conservative numbers, you end up with a LOT of (hypothetical) life out there.

 

[Ardius]

I doubt there's many people who believe we are the only intelligent life in the universe, at least as far as those who understand how big the universe is.

As for Aliens visiting Earth in past, present or future...I find it difficult to believe they have. The sheer distances and time scales involved would require technology beyond my comprehension. I find it far more believable that all UFO sightings can be explained by other things (military aircraft, visual anomalies, even tricks of the mind).

Its on the same level as believing in God. There is little proof, only "experiences" and chances. And again, as with God, I don't believe aliens don't exist however I'm pretty skeptical of them ever even touching Earth.

I feel the subject is a little boring really, its nice to think of the fantasties and read the latest advances. But its a very slow subject, there is little we can really do about proving intelligent life exists anywhere else for a long, long time. Not that people should stop trying to prove it, but personally I'm not very interested in the subject.

 

[Joey D]

I doubt there's many people who believe we are the only intelligent life in the universe, at least as far as those who understand how big the universe is.

Those who classify themselves as religious and practising, more then likely think we are it in the universe based on their beliefs. We wouldn't be the pinnacle of creation if there was another species out there just as intelligent (or more intelligent) than humans.

 

[Ardius]

I think you are referring to those people who are fanatically religious....not everyone who is religious believes they (or humanity) are the center of the universe or are so close-minded.
Religion doesn't demand you accept humanity as being alone...usually it suggests the contrary.

Ironically, one of my chemistry teachers once put it to me that "There are so many things unexplained in the universe...as a scientist, how can you not be religious?".

 

[Dotini]

I find it far more believable that all UFO sightings can be explained by other things (military aircraft, visual anomalies, even tricks of the mind).

Hi Ardius,

You may be interested in knowing that a certain Professor Michael Persinger of Laurentian University, Canada, has performed experiments on volunteer students for many years in which he "tricks the mind" of his subjects into believing they are seeing and speaking with aliens.

Persinger does this by strapping his subjects into a special helmet studded with electrodes and wires connected to his control panel. He generates specific electromagnetic fields and directs these energies into carefully determined areas of the brain. Our planet is alive with natural (and man-made) electromagnetic fields. These permeate the atmosphere and even water and rock. Persinger thinks these natural phenomena explain a major portion of UFO sightings. I agree with him.

Respectfully yours,
Dotini

 

[Ardius]

Cheers for that Dotini, that confirms my suspicions, especially about stuff like strange noises.
Of course, as I implied in my first post, I'd like to make it clear there is nothing wrong with attempting to investigate and prove UFOs exist. But personally I'm happy with assuming the usual. Not that I don't find such articles still interesting though from time to time. 👍

 

[Teh_Loserer]

Persinger thinks these natural phenomena explain a major portion of UFO sightings. I agree with him.

Also may explain the feeling some have of the presence of God. Saw Persinger on the Science channel not too long ago, they showed some chick being interviewed after wearing the helmet. Interesting stuff! 👍

 

[tlowr4]

Nope. Nudda. Zilch. Zero. Nothin'. I'm a christian, and it clearly states in the bible that god created 'the heavens and the earth.' Nothing about aliens.


My twenty cents. Don't flame me for it though.

EDIT:

But think universally and multiply that .000065 by the number of galaxies. Estimates range from 80B to over 500B galaxies in our universe, but let's be conservative and call it 1 billion. You come up with 65000 communicative civilizations in our universe.

Space is never ending, just like time. It never started, and will never stop. You can't count how many galaxies there are in the universe. Sure we might only know of a few billion, but there are trillions apon trillions apon trillions apon trillions apon trillions apon trillions apon trillions apon trillions apon etc etc. You get the idea.

 

[Azuremen]

Nope. Nudda. Zilch. Zero. Nothin'. I'm a christian, and it clearly states in the bible that god created 'the heavens and the earth.' Nothing about aliens.


My twenty cents. Don't flame me for it though.

EDIT:

Space is never ending, just like time. It never started, and will never stop. You can't count how many galaxies there are in the universe. Sure we might only know of a few billion, but there are trillions apon trillions apon trillions apon trillions apon trillions apon trillions apon trillions apon trillions apon etc etc. You get the idea.

Way to ignore science. Or fact. Or anything.

Nothing about God not creating other planets with Earth like conditions.

 

[Alex p.]

Nope. Nudda. Zilch. Zero. Nothin'. I'm a christian, and it clearly states in the bible that god created 'the heavens and the earth.' Nothing about aliens.

You are wrong, there are SEVERAL references to extra-terestrial life, even intervening with Earths population.

Like the Nephilim, who were cross-breeds between humans and Fallen Angels (Aliens).

 

[tlowr4]

Just before I say anything, I'm not trying to initiate an argument.

I don't' ignore science, I love science. I love the discovery of new things. New planets, new break-through's in medicine and recreation, it's all science. To tell you the truth, science is one of my strongest subjects. But I have come to understand the truth. Think of this. I'm going to turn evolutionist for a minute.

Science says the earth was created by the big bang. We can say, "How did that happen?" We can go all the way back to the start of the Milky-Way. But then you say, "How did that get there?" It gets to a point where it can't be answered anymore. How could all this stuff just.....turn up, out of thin air. There must have been some greater force, to create things. I know your next question will be "Well how did God come to be?" Jehovah doesn't explain that, because what relevance does it have to our lives.

Once again, don't kill me for saying this.

EDIT: What happened to not flaming me, eh?

 

[Joey D]

I'm pretty sure even the Pope said that "aliens" do not contradict a belief in God.

 

[Alex p.]

He did, the Vatican believes now in Aliens "officialy".

 

[tlowr4]

I, and my religion, have nothing to do with the POPE. I am a Jehovah's Witness. I know lots of people don't like the Jehovah's Witnesses, so please don't despise me, just because of my beliefs.

 

[Alex p.]

I, and my religion, have nothing to do with the POPE. I am a Jehovah's Witness. I know lots of people don't like the Jehovah's Witnesses, so please don't despise me, just because of my beliefs.

That's ok I think. I have a question though, is it true that Jehovah's Witnesses do believe that the human has no soul?

 

[Azuremen]

I, and my religion, have nothing to do with the POPE. I am a Jehovah's Witness. I know lots of people don't like the Jehovah's Witnesses, so please don't despise me, just because of my beliefs.

Well any faith that has a quota for the after life based on some math regarding the 12 tribes is always positive.

That aside, science doesn't say the Universe was created in the Big Bang, it is just a popular theory at the moment.

But religion basically discourages thinking about the universe by providing you with answers you shouldn't question, because to question them is to question Faith.

 

[tlowr4]

In a nutshell, a human is a soul (fist link explains this). The soul that most religions believe in (the one that lives on for eternity after you die), yeah, we don't believe in that. If you die, you die. You are entirely gone, until after Armageddon, and Jehovah resurrects the dead. As I've only been studying for around 2 years, I haven't started going in the field ministry yet, so I'm not great with the explanation part just yet. Here's a few links on information if you'd like to read more.

http://www.watchtower.org/e/20070715/article_01.htm
http://www.watchtower.org/e/bh/appendix_07.htm

 

[Alex p.]

Well kills your religion for me. You see, how can God expect from people to live a sin-free life, when there is no punishment afterwards, that's just nonsence. (Not that I would really believe in Hell and all but still.)
Besides, I do believe in the human soul very much.

 

[Joey D]

I, and my religion, have nothing to do with the POPE. I am a Jehovah's Witness. I know lots of people don't like the Jehovah's Witnesses, so please don't despise me, just because of my beliefs.

My point was that if the world's most recognisable religious figure and institution can say they officially "believe in aliens", then it as at least reasonable to think religion and life outside Earth can coexist.

And who's to say if there is a God, he didn't get bored one day and thought, "Hey creating Earth was a real hoot! I think I'll do it again!" It's sort of like that game Spore, you just create a new game save and build another planet teeming with life.

Oh and the only thing I hate on with Jehovah's Witnesses is that you think it's a good idea to knock on someone's door Saturday morning at some early hour. I don't mind hearing about how God can help me, just not before 9 am.

 

[FoolKiller]

Nope. Nudda. Zilch. Zero. Nothin'. I'm a christian, and it clearly states in the bible that god created 'the heavens and the earth.' Nothing about aliens.

It doesn't say he didn't create anything else either. The Bible is the history of man's relationship with God. If God created other beings in the universe The Bible has no need to discuss it. I mean, I can tell you about my day, but if I don't discuss my bathroom breaks it doesn't mean they didn't happen.

Besides, none of this is mentioned, but you believe they exist:

You can't count how many galaxies there are in the universe. Sure we might only know of a few billion, but there are trillions apon trillions apon trillions apon trillions apon trillions apon trillions apon trillions apon trillions apon etc etc. You get the idea.

And it's upon.

 

[Dapper]

(Not that I would really believe in Hell and all but still.)
Besides, I do believe in the human soul very much.

So there is no mystical place above or below us, but there is a mystical thing inside your body? Do aliens have a soul? What about dogs or the fleas and ticks that suck their blood, do they have souls?

 

[Joey D]

A soul can be seen as more then just the transparent ghost of yourself that floats out of you when you die. It can be the very essence of who you are, from your actions and behaviours to your morals and ethics. At least that's how I view the soul.

 

[Dapper]

A soul can be seen as more then just the transparent ghost of yourself that floats out of you when you die. It can be the very essence of who you are, from your actions and behaviours to your morals and ethics. At least that's how I view the soul.

Like a peson's character?

 

[Joey D]

Like a peson's character?

Sure, that works too. If you look at how people view their souls then that's really what it is in a nutshell. I'd be curious to hear some who is really religious chime in on this though.

 

[Dapper]

I'd be curious to hear some who is really religious chime in on this though.

Me too. I wonder about things specific to just humans.

 

[Exorcet]

Space is never ending, just like time. It never started, and will never stop. You can't count how many galaxies there are in the universe. Sure we might only know of a few billion, but there are trillions apon trillions apon trillions apon trillions apon trillions apon trillions apon trillions apon trillions apon etc etc. You get the idea.

Not necessarily. It's finite and bounded as far as we know. It's perfectly reasonable to estimate a finite number of galaxies.

It gets to a point where it can't be answered anymore. How could all this stuff just.....turn up, out of thin air. There must have been some greater force, to create things.

You skipped a step. Science doesn't answer where "stuff" came from, yet. This doesn't imply a higher a power (doesn't imply that there isn't one either and even if science answered everything, it would not disprove God), it's simply implies the need for more research.

EDIT: What happened to not flaming me, eh?

Seems more like a discussion. This topic would be a failure if it was just people posting an opinion and then never showing up again. Threads like that are boring and complete wastes of time, much like flaming. IMO.

Sure, that works too. If you look at how people view their souls then that's really what it is in a nutshell. I'd be curious to hear some who is really religious chime in on this though.

I guess I fell into this category a long time ago. I never felt a reason to not believe in extra terrestrial life.

EDIT, sorry, I was distracted when I read your post. I didn't answer your question at all haha. I remember being taught that only humans had souls and that the souls was/is basically you. However, that seemed to conflict somewhat with the idea of the body as temple. If "you" are the "soul", then the body is just some expendable shell. I get that Christianity wants people to respect their/others' physical bodies for obvious reasons, but it seemed to also put some special sacredness in the body itself. This I did not understand when I thought about it seriously.

 

[Dotini]

Here is a brief article about famous retired US Astronaut Dr. Story Musgrave. Apparently, he is now on public record as guaranteeing alien life does indeed exist, because he and the crew of STS-80 have seen it manifesting as a 100 foot diameter disc-shaped object with a counter-rotating outer ring. This object was flying up close to his shuttle in space.

http://www.agoracosmopolitan.com/home/Frontpage/2007/11/09/01935.html

My analysis of his story tells me there is nothing inconsistent between Musgrave's and natural plasma phenomena* previously observed and documented by physicists both in the field and in the lab. http://iopscience.iop.org/1367-2630/9/8/263/fulltext

*Natural plasma phenomena, yes, but with a twist. Some of these plasmoids seem to have a sort of awareness to humans, and can react to humans.

Respectfully submitted,
Dotini