Aliens

[SkierPS3]

IMO the existence of aliens is indisputable, but we don't kmow who they are or where.

 

[Vince_Fiero]

For that to happen, we have to:

a) Be very, very lucky - on an astronomical scale, in terms of both space and time. Water? Ha! Check out iron and stellar nucleosynthesis, then put our own prerequisites for life together again probalistically.

b) Not be in a simulation (or indeed Creation) constrained such that we are the only sentient beings in contactable range (it would be amusing if we're unique in our universe due to processing or storage constraints).

c) Avoid extinction for a sufficiently long time (through to a Singularity, perhaps? another time...), and be very patient - a hundred years isn't even the blink of an eye.

d) (IMVHO) Be open minded, and not such prigs about what we consider "life".

Indeed we have no clue what to expect, which makes it difficult to look for it. Carbon-water in our time reference seems the easiest to look for, but it might be something completely different, difficult to detect.

On d) we had this discussion before.

For a normal definition biological life needs:
metabolism
growth
stimulus
reproduction
adaptation
homeostasis

We are specist. The simple fact is that we can only judge life by what we have witnessed as life. It is quite possible that we may miss finding life because we don't recognize it as such. In that case we better hope that whatever we find is intelligent enough to communicate, or we will miss it.

Is more the conclusion I adhere too as well.

 

[RDotBWindows]

I for one believe that aliens exist, who is to say there is no other life form out there? we are yet to even see areas which are to be fair close to us. I think people who say aliens are not real are just stubborn.

 

[Ealirendur]

Indeed we have no clue what to expect, which makes it difficult to look for it. Carbon-water in our time reference seems the easiest to look for, but it might be something completely different, difficult to detect.

Looking through Nick Bostrom's stuff, I was reminded of Negentropy/Syntropy

By no means new with him, naturally. Just an additional thought along the search line.

On d) we had this discussion before.

For a normal definition biological life needs:
metabolism
growth
stimulus
reproduction
adaptation
homeostasis



Is more the conclusion I adhere too as well.

I'm glad someone didn't just tl:dr, but even that line of definition (which I had read in-thread, and was independently aware of) may get us in trouble - admittedly, more due to our possible inability to observe in enough detail or circumspection (for example, the time scale problem) to confirm any or all of the above than real problems with the definition. And Famine qualified it with normal, even so.

As an admittedly whimsical example, what if the cultural norm for the aliens was to actually reproduce (however rarely) by uplifting sufficiently interesting baby AIs from simulations? After one or more simulated lives (perhaps with simulated karma, even - which could take a long time, but nigh-immortals may not want to rush things. Reminds me of Arthur's training by Merlyn in The Sword in the Stone (book) for some reason....

Yes, they could in (wildspeculation) theory do that in our universe, even if we are actually in a simulated universe ourselves. Provided that our teenage/young adult caretaker has a powerful enough simulation/gaming rig, naturally

 

[BubbleBelly542]

I'm sure several people have said this, but think about how large the universe is. How can you justify saying there is nothing else when there are planets we've never seen?

Also, just realized last post was long ago... Sorry.

 

[Badger-X-]

Thought I'd share this find: Project Aquarius Document (pdf file)

Fantastical or not, what's compelling about Dan Burisch's document and testimonial is the amount of detail involved and it's inclusion/explanation of not just one aspect of the phenomena but everything from UFO crashes, secret government projects, abductions, ancient aliens, structures on the Moon and Mars etc. If nothing else, it's an attractive and accessible "theory" that (at least some) aliens are actually future humans.

Take it all with a grain of salt, of course , but nowadays with the amount of reports, sightings, credible witnesses & testimonies, Nasa's slow and quiet release of certain documents and photos, not to mention real science proving again and again that we have barely scratched the surface when it comes to our understanding of the universe and life as we know it, we as a species cannot afford to dismiss this as a bunch of BS, fakery, or outright lunacy.

If you don't believe or are on the fence, back up your case and do your own research. There's a ton of material on the web, most of which is garbage, but the 5 - 10% that isn't is pretty compelling evidence that something big is going on and has been for a very long time. The US is one of the last countries to maintain the shroud of secrecy (talk about a threat to national security! ) - so far 23 countries (list below) have fully or partially disclosed their UFO files to the public. This in itself is indicative of the existence of a real phenomena.

Former Legislator Henry W. McElroy, Jr testimony on Eisenhower's meeting with the "Visitors"

Respectfully,
X

List of countries that have disclosed UFO files:

1. Argentina
2. Australia
3. Brazil
4. Canada
5. China
6. Denmark
7. Finland
8. France
9. Germany
10. India
11. Ireland
12. Japan
13. Mexico
14. New Zealand
15. Peru
16. Russia
17. Spain
18. Sweden
19. Ukraine (not in English)
20. United Nations
21. United Kingdom
22. Uruguay
23. Vatican City

 

[TankAss95]

Two questions:

1) Has the possibility of silicon based life been shown implausible? I think I heard that somewhere.
2) Do we have any idea what the chances of successful abiogenesis are?

 

[Badger-X-]

Two questions:

1) Has the possibility of silicon based life been shown implausible? I think I heard that somewhere.
2) Do we have any idea what the chances of successful abiogenesis are?

As far as I know the possibility of silicon based life has not been disproven. It's just less likely. There are... complications that arise when contemplating abiogenesis with silicon such as it's lacking the ability to bond with certain types of atoms important for metabolism, or the fact that equivalent of carbon dioxide for silicon is a solid (silicon dioxide) suggesting that model would only work in extreme temperatures and/or pressure.

 

[niky]

Silicone beings could secrete to exhale, but that's a whole lot of secretion to be done every minute. Otherwise they'd have to be slow-moving, secreting oxide in one spot and leaving when it's covered... That leaves you the problem of recycling the oxygen from the secretion...

 

[Crispy]

Well I have something I've been thinking about for a while.

What if there were other humans among the stars? Possibly more technologically advanced? What if there was a big civil war which caused one side to get Earth, but turn in all technology and give away all the planets, while the others left Earth and took refuge with all the technology?

Okay I admit, that was pretty Sci-Fi, but that would be pretty cool. I really wonder if there were any other humans somewhere in the galaxy, possibly more advanced than us? That would be cool. Would they be hostile like us, or would they attempt piece with an identical species.

 

[Badger-X-]

What if there were other humans among the stars? Possibly more technologically advanced? What if there was a big civil war which caused one side to get Earth, but turn in all technology and give away all the planets, while the others left Earth and took refuge with all the technology?

Check out this link in one of my last posts. It's a good long read but chock full of those kind of "sci-fi" ideas. To be quite honest it's all pretty incredible - though at this point who really knows what's going on? One of these ideas I find fascinating has to do with the Roswell crash as well as abduction phenomena. Dan Burisch's claim is that we have been and are continually visited by - not aliens - but future humans. Apparently, according to Burisch, there was some sort of near-extinction event that splintered the remnants of human life on Earth. Some stayed behind while others moved on first to the Moon and Mars, and finally heading off towards Orion's Belt or the centre of our galaxy. The ones that left are known as P-52 Orions and are also the ones purported to have met with Eisenhower. The ones that stayed are known as P-45 J-Rods and they eventually left as well.
If nothing else, and especially if you like sci-fi or alien conspiracy theories, it's a fun read!

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Check out this link in one of my last posts. It's a good long read but chock full of those kind of "sci-fi" ideas. To be quite honest it's all pretty incredible - though at this point who really knows what's going on? One of these ideas I find fascinating has to do with the Roswell crash as well as abduction phenomena. Dan Burisch's claim is that we have been and are continually visited by - not aliens - but future humans. Apparently, according to Burisch, there was some sort of near-extinction event that splintered the remnants of human life on Earth. Some stayed behind while others moved on first to the Moon and Mars, and finally heading off towards Orion's Belt or the centre of our galaxy. The ones that left are known as P-52 Orions and are also the ones purported to have met with Eisenhower. The ones that stayed are known as P-45 J-Rods and they eventually left as well.
If nothing else, and especially if you like sci-fi or alien conspiracy theories, it's a fun read!

I heard that before from people, that they may be people from the future. However, I still am of the group that there may be a few alien races out there that are just that far in advance than us and can make the trip.

 

[AlexGTV]

More probable than the future humans is the underworld humans. That could explain the lack of melanin in their skin (greys).

 

[niky]

Then there's the whole problem of hitting a moving target when going backwards in time... a moving target that could either be light-months or light-years away, depending on what the absolute rest-frame reference is when travelling in time.

(Something most sci-fi time-travel stories convieniently ignore... with a few exceptions... one being Strontium Dog. One of his weapons is a time bomb... and when he uses it, he has to take into account the planet's rotation, as it affects where the time-displaced material rematerializes...)

 

[Jubby]

Well I have something I've been thinking about for a while.

What if there were other humans among the stars? Possibly more technologically advanced? What if there was a big civil war which caused one side to get Earth, but turn in all technology and give away all the planets, while the others left Earth and took refuge with all the technology?

Okay I admit, that was pretty Sci-Fi, but that would be pretty cool. I really wonder if there were any other humans somewhere in the galaxy, possibly more advanced than us? That would be cool. Would they be hostile like us, or would they attempt piece with an identical species.

But why in the devil would they be doing back here? I know it'd be cool, and very novel. I don't know, but with all of the crap we're doing to ourselves, the only thing we'd be useful for is slave labor or our natural resources--- what's left. Not quite the "take me to your leader" you'd look for.

If they had the chance to come here, chances are they'd have such technology they'd be able to squash us like we didn't even exist.

I want other life forms to exist, even human-like, but really? I don't think any outcome would be a really good one for us, if anything came to us.

 

[Badger-X-]

I want other life forms to exist, even human-like, but really? I don't think any outcome would be a really good one for us, if anything came to us.

I hear you but is that also because of our human perspective? Our own history is filled with atrocities. We are still petty savages fighting amongst ourselves, governed by fallible and corrupt institutions, and perpetuating an archaic monetary system that creates division and imbalance. "They" may not only be technologically advanced but also politically, socially, spiritually, etc.
If so, and their mission was not an aggressive one, they might be reluctant to even deal with us until we've grown up a little.

 

[Joel]

Sounds like the space cash episode of South Park.

 

[Dotini]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/04/03/ufo-encounter-pilot_n_1396078.html?ref=weird-news

An article published today that deserves a careful look.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[Dotini]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLx5LbA-6Ng&feature=player_embedded

Unusual objects, only feet away, videoed and commented upon by NASA astronauts on the final Shuttle mission.

Since they are described by the astronauts as "definitely not solid", and they move around, appearing to glow, blink or pulsate, it may be surmised that these objects are electromagnetic phenomena, akin to lightning, i.e., ball lightning, experienced on Earth.

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[Spagetti69]

I'm sure when aliens do land I'll find out from Steve first.

Nice one mate.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Check this out.

(Warning: Language)

 

[Badger-X-]

These have been around for a bit but I thought I'd post them for anyone who hasn't seen them yet. These are official Nasa photographs from Endeavour mission STS 88.
They're all labelled "space debris".

here are some close-ups:

 

[BubbleBelly542]

These have been around for a bit but I thought I'd post them for anyone who hasn't seen them yet. These are official Nasa photographs from Endeavour mission STS 88.
They're all labelled "space debris".

here are some close-ups:

Thanks for that. One or two look like they could be space craft. Very cool.

 

[Exorcet]

Thanks for that. One or two look like they could be space craft. Very cool.

Sometimes, space debris is a space craft.

 

[Touring Mars]

Wow! A piece of space debris!

Check this out.

(Warning: Language)

Awesome! Who would have thought that flying through a shaft of light would make things light up like that?

 

[CodeRedR51]

Yeah I saw a couple other videos about that. Although in the video I posted you can't actually see the beam of light like you can in the other videos.

 

[Dotini]

These have been around for a bit but I thought I'd post them for anyone who hasn't seen them yet. These are official Nasa photographs from Endeavour mission STS 88.
They're all labelled "space debris".

Nifty!
Here's some more analysis of that same piece of debris: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsAQB20gFPA

It appears to be significantly changing shape over the sequence of the NASA jpg's. One of the photos, STS088-724-70.JPG, clearly shows several glowing lights associated with the object. See what you think.

This piece of junk seems to have some kind of electromagnetic energy associated with it.

Respectfully,
Steve

 

[Exorcet]

It appears to be significantly changing shape over the sequence of the NASA jpg's...This piece of junk seems to have some kind of electromagnetic energy associated with it.

It just looks like a rotating piece of reflective material to me.

If this is some kind of ship or something, why is it changing shape? It shouldn't matter what the shape is when it's traveling outside of an atmosphere, and if it's trying to go into the atmosphere, the sharp edges and protrusions from the surface are all terrible design flaws.

 

[Dotini]

here are some close-ups:

I'm looking at the shot in the lower right of the above "close-ups", and seeing two large glowing lights on or near the left of the object, and 3 smaller ones on or near the right of the object, aren't you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lsAQB20gFPA
In this video, at about the 4:16 to 4:58 marks, even better closeups are seen.

In some of the other frames, some apparent smaller lights might be discerned, but these are less distinct.

As to why the thing may be changing shape, it's a puzzle. It could be rotating and wobbling, and not changing shape at all. But I have a hard time convincing myself of that. It could be flapping in the breeze, but I'm assuming the object is at an altitude where the air is very, very thin if any is there at all. But I don't really know its altitude. It seem to be orbiting somewhere near the camera, wherever that is. I think it's exceedingly strange!

Respectfully,
Steve

 

[Exorcet]

I'm looking at the shot in the lower right of the above "close-ups", and seeing two large glowing lights on or near the left of the object, and 3 smaller ones on or near the right of the object, aren't you?

The smaller lights look very much like the reflection of sunlight to me. The big blob(s) on the left look a bit weird, but they could be the same thing.

As to why the thing may be changing shape, it's a puzzle. It could be rotating and wobbling, and not changing shape at all. But I have a hard time convincing myself of that.

If it's junk I wouldn't be surprised if it's rotating. It's probably been hit by other debris while it's up there. Actually, looking at the images, the middle pair look pretty closely related. The bulge is visible in both of them (top left portion of the object). You might also possibly be seeing it in the top right photo on the right side.

It could be flapping in the breeze, but I'm assuming the object is at an altitude where the air is very, very thin if any is there at all.

If it is/was in orbit, any contact with air would probably be pretty obvious due to heating. I agree that it's probably not interacting with the atmosphere.