All Ford/Shelby Mustangs tested at Suzuka :)

[YZF]

Actually GT350R is faster than GT350, so no worries!

2:26.233 - Shelby GT350R '65
2:26.438 - Shelby GT350 '65 [P]


Seriously though, the main difference in the game is that GT350R has shorter gears and this is an advantage in 2 corners and that's where on average, third of a second is gained. Imho physics code, installed by PD, is the same for these two cars

 

[MidFieldMaven]

Hey, if you only did a couple of tenths better than me with your wheel, I must be pretty good for a controller user

It's a shame that the GT350R isn't recreated correctly.

 

[LS Chiou]

I'm kind of surprised that Boss 302 is slower than GT500 in this track. In my impression, GT500 is slightly more nose heavy and inert to turn.

And I remember one of them is very very nose heavy, with the f/r distribution of 65:35 or the like. Maybe it's the '07 model, I'm not 100% sure. And I'm not sure if this is a mistake of PD, say, that number is like a FF hatch back.

 

[sparkytooth]

I'm kind of surprised that Boss 302 is slower than GT500 in this track. In my impression, GT500 is slightly more nose heavy and inert to turn.

And I remember one of them is very very nose heavy, with the f/r distribution of 65:35 or the like. Maybe it's the '07 model, I'm not 100% sure. And I'm not sure if this is a mistake of PD, say, that number is like a FF hatch back.

To be fair Suzuka has a sizeable amount of straights, and this would obviously favor the much more powerful GT500.

 

[LS Chiou]

You're probably right. As I tested both of them in Ascari, Boss 302 does slightly better in that circuit which has only one not-so-long straight.

Oh, I seldom drive them in stock form, mostly tuned, more or less. That'd increase the varibles and enlarge the difference.

 

[Master__Shake_]

I'm kind of surprised that Boss 302 is slower than GT500 in this track. In my impression, GT500 is slightly more nose heavy and inert to turn.

And I remember one of them is very very nose heavy, with the f/r distribution of 65:35 or the like. Maybe it's the '07 model, I'm not 100% sure. And I'm not sure if this is a mistake of PD, say, that number is like a FF hatch back.

If I'm not mistaken, both the '05 and '07 have over 60% weight in the front. The difference is that the '05, just like it did back in GT5, can put down the power slightly better with a higher grip modifier than the '07. The same thing occurs with the '00 Z06 Corvette vs the '04, the '00 has higher grip and runs almost identical to the '04 with 20 less horsepower.

 

[YZF]

Hey, if you only did a couple of tenths better than me with your wheel, I must be pretty good for a controller user

It's a shame that the GT350R isn't recreated correctly.

I wasn't going for my best time ever, just couple laps and I don't have as much practice on Suzuka as you have I guess with a wheel your lap times would be even better.

 

[SnakeOfBacon]

Yes, you can.... until you try wheel and forget all this 'torture'

As a non-driver, I wouldn't be faster with a wheel than with a DS3, not for many months. I'll definitely make the switch one day, but I don't have the time or money to invest in a wheel and something to mount it on at the moment (or access to a car).

 

[MidFieldMaven]

I wasn't going for my best time ever, just couple laps and I don't have as much practice on Suzuka as you have I guess with a wheel your lap times would be even better.

I only aim to give controller users a competitive time to beat. I can't compete with some wheel users (though I'm not THAT far off in most cases.) Try using a controller and see how close you come to my times...Then you'll see that I'm actually above average.

With 560+ cars under my belt, I don't have the time to do more than a couple of laps anyway.

Do me a favor when you (or any wheel users) have time, test the GT500 and Boss 302? Curious to know if there's really a 3 second difference.

 

[YZF]

I only aim to give controller users a competitive time to beat. I can't compete with some wheel users (though I'm not THAT far off in most cases.) Try using a controller and see how close you come to my times...Then you'll see that I'm actually above average.

With 560+ cars under my belt, I don't have the time to do more than a couple of laps anyway.

Do me a favor when you (or any wheel users) have time, test the GT500 and Boss 302? Curious to know if there's really a 3 second difference.

I will definitely NOT use a controller. Whats the point, when i have a wheel and it is 10x better than DS3. And even if you test only couple laps with each car, the total track experience you have is really considerable. With a wheel your times would be even better.

 

[MidFieldMaven]

I wouldn't say a wheel is 10x better unless your lap times are 10x better than mine.

Anyway, I now have concrete proof that premium cars are given special treatment:

2:26.181 - Chevrolet Camaro Z28 '69 [P]
2:29.924 - Chevrolet Camaro SS '69

Z28
4.9L
289 hp / 6,000 rpm
290 ft-lb / 4,000 rpm
1,415 kg
450 pp

SS
5.7L
298 hp / 5,000 rpm
380 ft-lb / 3,000 rpm
1,401 kg
451 pp

The SS has a top speed of 115 mph while the Z28 hits 129 mph. Despite that, wouldn't the SS make up the time everywhere but the straights with 90 extra ft-lbs?

I always thought the SS was the more performance-oriented model of the two, at least in modern times? Maybe it wasn't always that way...

 

[crowhop]

I wouldn't say a wheel is 10x better unless your lap times are 10x better than mine.

Anyway, I now have concrete proof that premium cars are given special treatment:

2:26.181 - Chevrolet Camaro Z28 '69 [P]
2:29.924 - Chevrolet Camaro SS '69

Z28
4.9L
289 hp / 6,000 rpm
290 ft-lb / 4,000 rpm
1,415 kg
450 pp

SS
5.7L
298 hp / 5,000 rpm
380 ft-lb / 3,000 rpm
1,401 kg
451 pp

The SS has a top speed of 115 mph while the Z28 hits 129 mph. Despite that, wouldn't the SS make up the time everywhere but the straights with 90 extra ft-lbs?

I was going to ask how the Camaro's stack up. Looking forward to a Chevy/Ford/Dodge comparison.

You could add a custom transmission for both and make them equal. The transmission values on American cars really screws up everything.

Would also like to see a Mitsubishi/Subaru comp.

 

[Giygas]

Couldn't they just drop a Shelby engine into the Boss 302 and call it a day?

 

[STANG GT '01]

Couldn't they just drop a Shelby engine into the Boss 302 and call it a day?

It would probably be more cost effective to just throw a supercharger or turbo on the 302. The 302 is more than capable of making the 600+ hp numbers.

Irl, what makes the boss what it is is the the power curve characteristics of the 302. It's got just the right amount of torque and high revving capabilities to put the power to the ground. I have a funny feeling a boss with 660 pound feet of torque is gonna be just as much of a bear to drive as a shelby.

As for the comparison,I've always loved the '00 cobra R. In my garage it's a 500pp car with 375hp and 420 pound-feet. Super fun to drive in game.

 

[Zenmervolt]

That '07 is pure garbage (sorry Mustang fans, but it is what it is!)

In stock form it is, yes. But that's mostly because PD got the weight distribution very wrong. The actual car is 54/46 for front/rear but the GT6 version is 64/36.

If you use ballast to bring the weight distribution back to where it's supposed to be the car becomes much better.

EDIT: Got sloppy and dug up the wrong source. The '07 Mustang GT's weight distribution was 57/43. GT6 is 67/33. Because it's off by exactly 10, I truly believe that it's the result of a typo, not bad data on PD's side.

 

[MidFieldMaven]

In stock form it is, yes. But that's mostly because PD got the weight distribution very wrong. The actual car is 54/46 for front/rear but the GT6 version is 64/36.

If you use ballast to bring the weight distribution back to where it's supposed to be the car becomes much better.

YIKES how could PD get it so wrong?! This is why people don't take GT seriously. It's not a sim if the stock specs of 99% of the cars are off in some way.

 

[Giygas]

YIKES how could PD get it so wrong?! This is why people don't take GT seriously. It's not a sim if the stock specs of 99% of the cars are off in some way.

I'm not sure how PD could have messed this up. Perhaps they used a foreign-spec Mustang with an automatic or something.

It has to be one of if not their worst representations of a real car they've ever done.

 

[Master__Shake_]

I wouldn't say a wheel is 10x better unless your lap times are 10x better than mine.

Anyway, I now have concrete proof that premium cars are given special treatment:

2:26.181 - Chevrolet Camaro Z28 '69 [P]
2:29.924 - Chevrolet Camaro SS '69

Z28
4.9L
289 hp / 6,000 rpm
290 ft-lb / 4,000 rpm
1,415 kg
450 pp

SS
5.7L
298 hp / 5,000 rpm
380 ft-lb / 3,000 rpm
1,401 kg
451 pp

The SS has a top speed of 115 mph while the Z28 hits 129 mph. Despite that, wouldn't the SS make up the time everywhere but the straights with 90 extra ft-lbs?

I always thought the SS was the more performance-oriented model of the two, at least in modern times? Maybe it wasn't always that way...

The Z/28 was built for a track car back then, with the performance 302 motor for can-am racing. Despite the huge torque advantage in the SS model, the Z/28 once again has better overall grip and can put down its power more efficiently. This isn't an advantage of being premium, because there are some standard models which have better grip than premium, but its an obvious advantage that's visible in the type of racing I do. Models that had great grip in GT5 have carried over to GT6, which is almost proof in itself of how little they changed things in this game from last.

The Holden Monaro CV8 & Commodore SS are identical in stats, yet the Commodore crushes the Monaro by over a car in drags. The Commodore almost holds its own against the Pontiac GTO, which has around 150 more horsepower when fully upgraded. I suggest testing these three cars, and watch very carefully where and when the Commodore pulls ahead of the others - because that is the same place where these other cars will be faster than their counterparts.

 

[Zenmervolt]

YIKES how could PD get it so wrong?! This is why people don't take GT seriously. It's not a sim if the stock specs of 99% of the cars are off in some way.

I'm not sure how PD could have messed this up. Perhaps they used a foreign-spec Mustang with an automatic or something.

It has to be one of if not their worst representations of a real car they've ever done.

Honestly, I think it's most likely a typo in the programming. There was no version in real life that had that much of its weight on the front tires.

It's also 50 kg heavier than the "wet" weights I've seen for '07 GTs in the US, but those are cars with manual gearboxes and without full options, so the weight seems within range.

They also use the gear ratios for the automatic, not the manual, so the in-game car is geared a bit taller in each primary gear, plus the manual had the option of a 3.55 final drive instead of the standard 3.31 (the automatic had only the 3.31 rear end).

 

[HBR-Roadhog]

I wouldn't say a wheel is 10x better unless your lap times are 10x better than mine.

A wheel is definitely much more fun and realistic. I would say yes that it is 10x better but not based on lap times.

I played Forza 2 and 3 using a controller even though I got a MS wheel for Forza 2. I found that I was slower on almost every track with the wheel than with the controller. On oval tracks in grippy cars I was slightly faster with the wheel and more consistent lap after lap. I finally made the switch to using a wheel full time with GT5 as I do not like the DS controllers, they make my hands cramp and have issues with my fingers slipping on the triggers and thumbs slipping on the sticks. If I could have used the 360 controller I may have stayed with the controller rather than buying a DFGT.

After driving with the DFGT for a while and getting a really good feel for it I moved to a Turbo S I used that for GT5 and Forza 3 and 4 for a while then moved to the CSR Elite.

Even after driving with the wheel exclusively for over a year I picked up the 360 controller and was able to match my wheel time on several tracks. Of course I was also one of those who drove with a controller like it was a wheel and have had several people not believe I was using a controller due to the smooth turning inputs where a lot of people just kind of tap the stick to steer I was always smooth and fluid.

A wheel is a big adjustment. It gives you more control but is also much harder to counter steer and at first it can be very frustrating due to loosing control when the rear kicks out. A tiny flick of the thumb can correct this when using a controller but with a good wheel, 900 degree steering and strong FFB it is a whole different experience.

Now I have been using the wheel exclusively in GT5, Forza 4 and GT6. I would not want to use anything else but I could still pick up a controller and crank out times that would be very close to what I get using the wheel on most tracks.

 

[MidFieldMaven]

The Holden Monaro CV8 & Commodore SS are identical in stats, yet the Commodore crushes the Monaro by over a car in drags. The Commodore almost holds its own against the Pontiac GTO, which has around 150 more horsepower when fully upgraded. I suggest testing these three cars, and watch very carefully where and when the Commodore pulls ahead of the others - because that is the same place where these other cars will be faster than their counterparts.

--------------------------------------
2:25.689 - Pontiac GTO 5.7 Coupe '04
2:25.974 - Holden Monaro CV8 '04
2:27.126 - Holden Commodore SS '04
--------------------------------------
Monaro
327 hp / 5,500 rpm
343 ft-lb / 4,000 rpm
1,658 kg
459 pp

GTO
345 hp / 5,300 rpm
365 ft-lb / 4,000 rpm
1,690 kg
466 pp

Commodore
327 hp / 5,500 rpm
343 ft-lb / 4,000 rpm
1,658 kg
462 pp

I tried until I was ready to throw my controller out the damn window, and there's no way in hell the Commodore is better than the Monaro. It just isn't. At best, the Commodore is a 2:26 car, but the Monaro can do a 2:26 all day long, with a 2:25 on a great run.

 

[Master__Shake_]

--------------------------------------
2:25.689 - Pontiac GTO 5.7 Coupe '04
2:25.974 - Holden Monaro CV8 '04
2:27.126 - Holden Commodore SS '04
--------------------------------------
Monaro
327 hp / 5,500 rpm
343 ft-lb / 4,000 rpm
1,658 kg
459 pp

GTO
345 hp / 5,300 rpm
365 ft-lb / 4,000 rpm
1,690 kg
466 pp

Commodore
327 hp / 5,500 rpm
343 ft-lb / 4,000 rpm
1,658 kg
462 pp

I tried until I was ready to throw my controller out the damn window, and there's no way in hell the Commodore is better than the Monaro. It just isn't. At best, the Commodore is a 2:26 car, but the Monaro can do a 2:26 all day long, with a 2:25 on a great run.

That's a very interesting conclusion. On paper they seem to be identical, and I know the Commodore has more overall traction, but the Monaro clearly has an advantage on the circuit. Are there any differences in suspension between the two or limited top speed for transmissions?

 

[MidFieldMaven]

They both topped out at 134 mph on the straight.

Minimum speed in mph for each corner:

Turn 1
M - 62
C - 62

Turn 2
M - 82
C - 83

Turn 3
M - 70
C - 71

Turn 4
M - 78
C - 77

Turn 5
M - 69
C - 64

Turn 6
M - 78
C - 78

Turn 7
M - 88
C - 88

Turn 8
M - 57
C - 57

Turn 9
M - 36
C - 34

Turn 10
M - 78
C - 76

Turn 11
M - 63
C - 62

Turn 12
M - 111
C - 112

Turn 13
M - 43
C - 39

I can't check right now but the default suspension and/or gearing settings are most likely different. Turns 5 and 13 are where most of the time difference lies. I don't see how I can make up more than 1.1 seconds of time. Maybe it being a sedan affects handling?

Also, technically there are 18 corners but I only counted the "important" ones lol if you watch the video you'll see.

 

[Master__Shake_]

I can't check right now but the default suspension and/or gearing settings are most likely different. Turns 5 and 13 are where most of the time difference lies. I don't see how I can make up more than 1.1 seconds of time. Maybe it being a sedan affects handling?

Also, technically there are 18 corners but I only counted the "important" ones lol if you watch the video you'll see.

I trust your results; I just meant that the stock suspension on the Commodore may not be as stiff because its a sedan instead of the Monaro coupe, or possibly something else may be affecting it. Sometimes these manufacturers don't consider track racing when building a street car, and I imagine GM/Holden would overlook that for a 4-door. So far it's the only car that's contradicted higher grip vs alternate model.