Alpine A110 Comparison: GT Sport vs Forza Motorsport 7

[tofuhero]

there are a lot of alpine A110 without the side chrome trim like in GTS...

Yes, but the one in GTS is specifically a 1972 1600 S.

Here is a Renault sales brochure from 1972. You can see that the Alpine A110 drawing features the chrome trim on the side. The image quality is horrible, but it seems like there were two models on offer. Wikipedia says that the 1300 and 1600 S were both offered in 1972, and that matches with the engines listed in the brochure. I don't know whether the trim was specific to one of the models, or a premium option.

Personally I think it looks much better with the trim.

 

[Tyger]

Yes, but the one in GTS is specifically a 1972 1600 S.

Here is a Renault sales brochure from 1972. You can see that the Alpine A110 drawing features the chrome trim on the side. The image quality is horrible, but it seems like there were two models on offer. Wikipedia says that the 1300 and 1600 S were both offered in 1972, and that matches with the engines listed in the brochure. I don't know whether the trim was specific to one of the models, or a premium option.

Personally I think it looks much better with the trim.

Aww you reminded me how much I like the 15 and 17, the latter of which I had a Majorette Motors die cast model of when I was a kid, in red, and I thought it was the Dukes of Hazzard car

I'd forgotten about the Rodeo too, perhaps for the best.

Back on topic, I'm way more into Forza than GT nowadays as I am a colossal car nerd and am more interested in production cars than race cars, but was very impressed by the sound in GT in that comparison, and not so impressed by the slightly faddy glass reflections and flappy windscreen wipers in Forza. Somebody earlier suggested the sound in GT at speed was just the mid range sound pitched up, but basic pitching up would increase the rev frequency overall, not just the note, which is, erm, kinda what happens in real life.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Unfortunately, there are some folks who just can't avoid going down that road. We can only produce the article. Some posts on here — and especially some on the associated Facebook page — really wouldn't look out of place on a Youtube video. For example: did you know Forza 7 looks like a cartoon?

That said, no need to resort to the "fanboy" thing.

I find it an interesting comparison; FM7 loses out on model quality, sure, but we're talking 90% or so of Sport's model quality, with 400% the models available. Plus the game has to run differing time of day and weather. It's the same reason a visual comparison between GT Sport and PCARS2 would favour the former. It's also fantastic to see that a GT series bugbear — the sounds — is a thing of the past. There is a much smaller gap between GT and Forza now than there was around the time of FM3 and GT5, IMO.

I can show the video to any of my non-obsessive friends and they'd struggle to tell them apart outside of the different POV and the different colour cast.

Each game is a series of compromises. Polyphony's models (and, specifically, the lighting engine) are second-to-none, but they're in a static environment with the smallest competitor fields. The bald figures for car count don't take into account all of the aftermarket modifications available in FM7 either, something neither of the other games have to worry about.

The part of me that likes taking photos loves GT Sport for its visual quality. The part of me that likes taking photos of a much wider variety of cars, potentially modified the way I want, loves FM7 for its diversity. I'd hate to be the type of person that insisted on playing only one racing game, especially under some misguided feeling of loyalty.



You're using that word wrong.

I've met both teams: the passion they all have for cars is palpable.

Also, don't double post. 👍



Yep, the materials give it away (especially those rear lights). I've said it before, and I'll say it again; Polyphony are magicians when it comes to lighting engines. The modelling quality isn't leaps and bounds better than others in the genre IMO (they're all at frankly incredible levels these days), it's that lighting engine that really elevates GT above the competition in terms of visuals. 👍

I would make love to this post if I could.

 

[Scaff]

In Polyphony they have a lot of love for what they do, love cars and have the attention to detail that no other company has, so definitely your theory is wrong.


Without trying to erode sensibilities and without doing Turn10 less, PD feel like artists and passionate about the motor world, and Turn10 is the reflection of the clone and that need for mass game production.

With this I do not mean that Turn10 make bad games, on the contrary, they have given lessons to GT, but they never approached the magic of PD, they are probably the most passionate studio in the industry, and that is saying a lot.

You see I just don't buy this at all.

All of the teams around have a clear passion for the products they make, they just focus that passion in different ways.

PD quite clearly aim for the most detailed and polished looking title they can, however the focus for others is around areas such as exacting recreations of Motorsport events, physics accuracy, FFB and handling models, etc.

While PD is capable of making a stunning looking product, they are however behind in the terms of physics, FFB and overall handling accuracy (and the less said about PD's 'rally' effort the better - many patches later its still only passable), nor have they made much of an attempt to recreate the feel of a race weekend or racing event.

Passion doesn't just exist because a title look pretty, and its not like the rest of the genre are using fingerpaintings!

 

[Bogie 19th]

You see I just don't buy this at all.

All of the teams around have a clear passion for the products they make, they just focus that passion in different ways.

PD quite clearly aim for the most detailed and polished looking title they can, however the focus for others is around areas such as exacting recreations of Motorsport events, physics accuracy, FFB and handling models, etc.

While PD is capable of making a stunning looking product, they are however behind in the terms of physics, FFB and overall handling accuracy (and the less said about PD's 'rally' effort the better - many patches later its still only passable), nor have they made much of an attempt to recreate the feel of a race weekend or racing event.

Passion doesn't just exist because a title look pretty, and its not like the rest of the genre are using fingerpaintings!

And I would also make love to this post.

 

[TheAdmiester]

You see I just don't buy this at all.

All of the teams around have a clear passion for the products they make, they just focus that passion in different ways.

PD quite clearly aim for the most detailed and polished looking title they can, however the focus for others is around areas such as exacting recreations of Motorsport events, physics accuracy, FFB and handling models, etc.

While PD is capable of making a stunning looking product, they are however behind in the terms of physics, FFB and overall handling accuracy (and the less said about PD's 'rally' effort the better - many patches later its still only passable), nor have they made much of an attempt to recreate the feel of a race weekend or racing event.

Passion doesn't just exist because a title look pretty, and its not like the rest of the genre are using fingerpaintings!

I always love the hyperbole in the posts like the one you're quoting. Apparently just because GT's cars look a bit better it means only PD care about what they do

 

[Knukel]

Off topic, but isn't this kind of behaviour typical towards japanese games? I mean... Stereotypical yes, but it's like critics are personal attacks for one person's passion or art... When other companies are just companies. Heh.

 

[ImaRobot]

Off topic, but isn't this kind of behaviour typical towards japanese games? I mean... Stereotypical yes, but it's like critics are personal attacks for one person's passion or art... When other companies are just companies. Heh.

I'm really not exactly sure what you're meaning.

 

[eran0004]

Yes, but the one in GTS is specifically a 1972 1600 S.

Looks like some had that chrome trim while others didn't.

 

[Knukel]

I'm really not exactly sure what you're meaning.

Sensei stuff... Well maybe not, but have noticed when searching information or reading reviews/critics there's very often that one name that pops up before developer team or game publisher. Making them seem more personal. (Could be that those companies are only size of a indie team like PD is/was)

 

[emula]

View attachment 721588
View attachment 721589

I've confused the name, I refer to the side mirror

 

[ImaRobot]

I've confused the name, I refer to the side mirror

Definitely an odd mistake.

What a horrible game, amirite?

 

[emula]

Yes, but the one in GTS is specifically a 1972 1600 S.

Here is a Renault sales brochure from 1972. You can see that the Alpine A110 drawing features the chrome trim on the side. The image quality is horrible, but it seems like there were two models on offer. Wikipedia says that the 1300 and 1600 S were both offered in 1972, and that matches with the engines listed in the brochure. I don't know whether the trim was specific to one of the models, or a premium option.

Personally I think it looks much better with the trim.

1972 1600 S whithout chrome trim on the side

 

[TheAdmiester]

Definitely an odd mistake.

What a horrible game, amirite?

Some A110s actually had no mirrors.

Hard to find, but it seems that it must've been one of these that T10 scanned.

 

[emula]

Spome A110s actually had no mirrors.

Hard to find, but it seems that it must've been one of these that T10 scanned.

in the first photo the mirror is covered by the car, the second photo is real? looks like a toy

the only alpine I've seen whithout side mirror is a prototype but the model present in FM is a 1600s not the prototype

 

[Scaff]

in the first photo the mirror is covered by the car, the second photo is real? looks like a toy

the only alpine I've seen whithout side mirror is a prototype but the model present in FM is a 1600s not the prototype

A110's were available with or without side mirrors, its neither strange or unusual for the era.

Not that I think for a second that rather clear evidence (posted by someone who used to work for the damn company that made the things) will stop the rather petty nonsense around a wing mirror!

Oh and the AUP is quite clear on the need to use good grammar and correct capitalization, so please do so.

 

[ImaRobot]

in the first photo the mirror is covered by the car, the second photo is real? looks like a toy

the only alpine I've seen whithout side mirror is a prototype but the model present in FM is a 1600s not the prototype

A110's were available with or without side mirrors, its neither strange or unusual for the era.

Not only that, but even if it actually did have a mirror, it would have clearly been visible from that angle because if the car actually was hiding it, than that would place the mirror almost 3/4.

Even looking at it some more, I see all kinds of examples with left side mirrors too, some with black trimmed mirrors, some with chrome, and about 2-3 different styles. Some even in completely different locations than the others.

 

[queleuleu]

I wonder why racing games are now a niche genre: a problem of mirror on A110, a problem with a the tyre model...

 

[Patclash]

A110's were available with or without side mirrors, its neither strange or unusual for the era.

Not that I think for a second that rather clear evidence (posted by someone who used to work for the damn company that made the things) will stop the rather petty nonsense around a wing mirror!

Oh and the AUP is quite clear on the need to use good grammar and correct capitalization, so please do so.

In France side mirrors were mandatory in July 1972 only
(before it was optional)

 

[emula]

In France side mirrors were mandatory in July 1972 only
(before it was optional)

Ok mystery solved

 

[marcvic]

Overall, both games look good. Both have silky smooth FPS.

GTS engine note has a bit more gritty undertone. The texture/lighting advances that PD have made helps pull it ahead of FM7 - having the sun glare reflect off of the metal gauge housing is a real nice touch. The reflections of the dash in FM7 is a bit over exaggerated. The extra degrees of rotation on the GTS wheel makes the movements seem more natural. It seems like there are certain points where the hands on FM7 are literally floating over the steering wheel. Some shadows on GTS still have that "flaming flicker" to them that is noticeable on the roof in the inside of the cockpit.

I wonder what inputs MG is using on each game, as the suspension seems a bit more loose in FM7 (or a bit too tight in GTS?).

 

[Scaff]

I wonder what inputs MG is using on each game, as the suspension seems a bit more loose in FM7 (or a bit too tight in GTS?).

GTS dampers have that issue, have for a long time.

They are overdone on rebound in particular, it's far more noticeable on vintage cars on when a car lands after a jump.

 

[Lukanyon]

Good thing I don't need to resort to such irrelevant details like the lack of a side mirror to defend a piece of software.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

Good thing I don't need to resort to such irrelevant details like the lack of a side mirror to defend a piece of software.

Despite the back and forth it was still a fun little history lesson.

 

[TheAdmiester]

Good thing I don't need to resort to such irrelevant details like the lack of a side mirror to defend a piece of software.

Especially when the missing mirror was actually just a variant of the car

 

[SimTourist]

Must be great to work 120+ hour work weeks just to be criticized by some lazy forum goers.

 

[ScottPuss20]

I think the Alpine A110 is brilliant. Handles great and sounds decent as well, with a rasp similar to that of the AES in GT6.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Impressive how much better GTS looks. PDI are still the masters in the genre, they've set such a high benchmark since GT5P. Probably best in terms of development efficiency. Microsoft have deep pockets though, will be interesting to see if they will invest more in the Forza series or not to catch up for next generation. Looks aren't everything but sadly IMO Forza is lagging even further behind in other departments which affect enjoyment such as loading times, track accuracy, time to attain cars, physics and controls.

 

[ImaRobot]

.

Impressive how much better GTS looks. PDI are still the masters in the genre, they've set such a high benchmark since GT5P. Probably best in terms of development efficiency. Microsoft have deep pockets though, will be interesting to see if they will invest more in the Forza series or not to catch up for next generation. Looks aren't everything but sadly IMO Forza is lagging even further behind in other departments which affect enjoyment such as loading times, track accuracy, time to attain cars, physics and controls.

Development efficiency? Yeah, no they’re far from efficient from what the industry is churning out.

They are definitely leading in the visuals department, but that gap seems to just be getting smaller and smaller as the years go by, to be honest. We probably have them to thank for lots of visual improvements we see in all the other games.

Loading times seem fairly quick on Forza, but that could be down to me being on the One X. Time to attain cars has to be another joke right? You get a free car every level, and in one race I’m jumping up about 2-3 levels so I’d say you’re a bit off there, especially with all the free cars you get from things like Forzathon and bountie rivals too. They literally throw cars at you so I’m not sure how you’d say that.

Physics reviews from people like @Scaff don’t hint at massive improvements so I’d imagine that they’re still very relatable. The inputs I heard can be a bit twitchy on GTS at times, but depending k what mode you use on Forza it can be either slow or fast. Those are things I’d have to try out when I hopefully purchase the game today.

 

[McLaren]

Impressive how much better GTS looks. PDI are still the masters in the genre, they've set such a high benchmark since GT5P. Probably best in terms of development efficiency. Microsoft have deep pockets though, will be interesting to see if they will invest more in the Forza series or not to catch up for next generation. Looks aren't everything but sadly IMO Forza is lagging even further behind in other departments which affect enjoyment such as loading times, track accuracy, time to attain cars, physics and controls.

You're another one who loves to hype up GT in this section, but this is ridiculous. PD is one of those developers who spends a considerable amount of time on a product that shows obvious areas of high preference over others. For years, it's been gorgeous graphics and long touted development time to create assets with questionable physics/sounds.

This isn't a claim to say a car modeler should be doing sounds, more so that Kaz as the head of this company is more invested in making sure his game produces highly detailed cars over how authentic they may sound. The games always have an open-window release date, so there's no reason he can't push for certain teams to have more time.