Alpine A110 Comparison: GT Sport vs Forza Motorsport 7

[Moglet]

OK. One word of warning. I'm terrible at using Forza's Photomode, but, here goes...

As much as I love Forza it has always suffered when it comes to modelling lights on cars, especially the older patterned lenses like found on the A110. The head and tail lights both have the opacity all wrong.

 

[kseb08]

Scary how much better GTS looks especially the car model. I hope that is the og Xbox and not the X

the Xbox One X doesn't change anything, except the resolution... which doesn't change anything in the modeling of cars. Why do a lot of people think that games are a lot more beautiful on X (except resolution)?

Just Watch comparisons of Xbox One games vs Xbox One X games and you'll notice no really notable differences (except resolution).

 

[emula]

OK. One word of warning. I'm terrible at using Forza's Photomode, but, here goes...

My blurry *** 4K resolution on a 1080P monitor pictures aside; it's kind of clear that the Forza model is different from the GranTurismo version and, Turn 10 settled on "good enough" with this one.

Thank you! finally a proper comparison

It's clear that we have two different models, but is equally clear that the attention to detail is superior in GTS (despite a 40% less powerful console)

 

[SimTourist]

Thank you! finally a proper comparison

It's clear that we have two different models, but is equally clear that the attention to detail is superior in GTS (despite a 40% less powerful console)

The quality in GTS is better, but you would be hardpressed to call Forza's models bad, and again considering it's 763 cars vs 205 cars, is the tradeoff in quality reasonable? It's remarkable and great that PD goes the extra mile, but the time it takes to get there... I dunno

 

[Dopplegagger]

Honestly it is clearly inferior, although there is also the factor that what surrounds the car is modeled in 3D.

Is xbox one, xbox x or PC? That also matters, because PS4 is very inferior to xbox x and PC

I'm on PC. My resolution is 3840 x 2160 down sampled to 1920 x 1080. That's why the pictures are blurry when the full size image is viewed.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

To be honest this is the kind of comparsion / thread all the fanboys are waiting for.. and those who only own one console / game. I wont bother taking this seriously.

The only important thing? My game wins.

Unfortunately, there are some folks who just can't avoid going down that road. We can only produce the article. Some posts on here — and especially some on the associated Facebook page — really wouldn't look out of place on a Youtube video. For example: did you know Forza 7 looks like a cartoon?

That said, no need to resort to the "fanboy" thing.

I find it an interesting comparison; FM7 loses out on model quality, sure, but we're talking 90% or so of Sport's model quality, with 400% the models available. Plus the game has to run differing time of day and weather. It's the same reason a visual comparison between GT Sport and PCARS2 would favour the former. It's also fantastic to see that a GT series bugbear — the sounds — is a thing of the past. There is a much smaller gap between GT and Forza now than there was around the time of FM3 and GT5, IMO.

I can show the video to any of my non-obsessive friends and they'd struggle to tell them apart outside of the different POV and the different colour cast.

Each game is a series of compromises. Polyphony's models (and, specifically, the lighting engine) are second-to-none, but they're in a static environment with the smallest competitor fields. The bald figures for car count don't take into account all of the aftermarket modifications available in FM7 either, something neither of the other games have to worry about.

The part of me that likes taking photos loves GT Sport for its visual quality. The part of me that likes taking photos of a much wider variety of cars, potentially modified the way I want, loves FM7 for its diversity. I'd hate to be the type of person that insisted on playing only one racing game, especially under some misguided feeling of loyalty.

In Polyphony they have a lot of love for what they do, love cars and have the attention to detail that no other company has, so definitely your theory is wrong.

You're using that word wrong.

I've met both teams: the passion they all have for cars is palpable.

Also, don't double post. 👍

As much as I love Forza it has always suffered when it comes to modelling lights on cars, especially the older patterned lenses like found on the A110. The head and tail lights both have the opacity all wrong.

Yep, the materials give it away (especially those rear lights). I've said it before, and I'll say it again; Polyphony are magicians when it comes to lighting engines. The modelling quality isn't leaps and bounds better than others in the genre IMO (they're all at frankly incredible levels these days), it's that lighting engine that really elevates GT above the competition in terms of visuals. 👍

 

[Moglet]

Yep, the materials give it away (especially those rear lights). I've said it before, and I'll say it again; Polyphony are magicians when it comes to lighting engines. The modelling quality isn't leaps and bounds better than others in the genre IMO (they're all at frankly incredible levels these days), it's that lighting engine that really elevates GT above the competition in terms of visuals. 👍

The visuals in GTSport alone are making me want to buy it but I'm waiting for it to drop in price a bit first. Their lighting system is spectacular and always has been.

 

[SimTourist]

It's also easy to forget that most cars in forza also have modelled engines and trunks, some of the polygon and texture budget goes there, GT doesn't have to worry about that.

 

[danh25]

It's also easy to forget that most cars in forza also have modelled engines and trunks, some of the polygon and texture budget goes there, GT doesn't have to worry about that.

That in the game you can not see but only in forzavista where you have a polygonal model different from the one in game.

 

[Dopplegagger]

That in the game you can not see but only in forzavista where you have a polygonal model different from the one in game.

I don't think it's a different model, they probably just turn the details on and off. Forza's rolling start race countdown shows an example of this. The dashboards look terrible during that sequence, but once the camera goes to the cockpit view, the dash is rendered in detail. Probably one of those; if it's not needed turn it off, things. The model probably isn't a different car set aside just for Forza-Vista, it's the same model as the in-game car, just not being shown with all the details switched on.

Too bad FM7 isn't modable on PC. I'm sure a mod using "Forza-Vista" details at all times would have appeared if mods were allowed.

 

[TheAdmiester]

That in the game you can not see but only in forzavista where you have a polygonal model different from the one in game.

Only the engine, seatbelts, and sometimes pedals are hidden ingame. The exterior model doesn't change at all with the exception of some cars gaining a see-through grille.

 

[danh25]

Only the engine, seatbelts, and sometimes pedals are hidden ingame. The exterior model doesn't change at all with the exception of some cars gaining a see-through grille.

In a topic of the former neogaf they had shown comparisons between forzavista and the game and the difference was very clear.
If you post me some comparative photos we take away any doubt.

 

[ImaRobot]

In a topic of the former neogaf they had shown comparisons between forzavista and the game and the difference was very clear.
If you post me some comparative photos we take away any doubt.

Mind showing what you found? I think the biggest difference would be the actual lighting model, as the showroom has some ideal lighting set up compared to some tracks.

 

[danh25]

Mind showing what you found? I think the biggest difference would be the actual lighting model, as the showroom has some ideal lighting set up compared to some tracks.

after the hustle and bustle of neogaf, finding that discussion is a feat.

Rather than let me try to find it, do first you to some comparison

 

[TheAdmiester]

In a topic of the former neogaf they had shown comparisons between forzavista and the game and the difference was very clear.
If you post me some comparative photos we take away any doubt.

I'm using Horizon 3 for this comparison as I can use the debug build to manually switch LODs. Forza 7 works the same.

I'll compare the A110 since it's the focus of this thread, with the debug overlay enabled showing the active LOD of the car. LOD -1 is Forzavista, and LOD 0 is the gameplay LOD. Both sets of pictures show the Forzavista model first.

Flick between the two images and you'll see that on the exterior of the car, there's no difference. The window tint changes slightly and the passenger side wiper's curvature changes, but there's no difference in detail to be seen anywhere.

Inside the car, in the case of the Alpine, there's actually no difference at all. Again the tint has changed, but in this one even the pedals (not shown) are present in LOD 0.

So in the case of the Alpine, the only difference whatsoever is that the Forzavista model has the engine and hidden bits (such as the doorshuts) present, with no detail difference in what the player actually sees in gameplay.

 

[danh25]

Ehm a little bit more above there are the images from forzavista is the difference is clear eh:idea:

I'm sorry but it's like I said

 

[SlipZtrEm]

Ehm a little bit more above there are the images from forzavista is the difference is clear eh:idea:

I'm sorry but it's like I said

You're offering no proof, just a memory of some post on another site, but you're arguing the pictures posted from a developer build utilizing the actual LOD levels isn't proof enough?

It sounds like you're not looking for facts, just something to confirm your own previously-held beliefs.

 

[ImaRobot]

Ehm a little bit more above there are the images from forzavista is the difference is clear eh:idea:

I'm sorry but it's like I said

So point them out. It sounds like youre just blowing smoke now as you've done very little to actually describe what you're talking about. At this point, it just seems like you can't seem to accept that its not doing what you claimed.

 

[TheAdmiester]

Ehm a little bit more above there are the images from forzavista is the difference is clear eh:idea:

I'm sorry but it's like I said

I've just shown you side by side comparisons confirming what I said, how are you still disagreeing with that?

Please show proof of what you're saying, "is the difference clear" isn't making any sense here.

 

[danh25]

You're offering no proof, just a memory of some post on another site, but you're arguing the pictures posted from a developer build utilizing the actual LOD levels isn't proof enough?

It sounds like you're not looking for facts, just something to confirm your own previously-held beliefs.

My speech is clear and the photos are showing what I said that the forzavista of the model is different from what you find in the game because they are 2 different things.
And it's not bad for the game, even if you're interpreting what I'm saying as negative.

All the material is in this topic, then if you do not want to see I can not do much else for the discussion.

Then instead of turning around the speech, demonstrating with the facts that I'm doing wrong is the easiest thing to do

 

[ImaRobot]

My speech is clear and the photos are showing what I said that the forzavista of the model is different from what you find in the game because they are 2 different things.

Your speach is clear, you're correct. That doesn't mean it isn't literally wrong in what you were describing. Evidence was just shown that was incorrect, and that the detail between them was not changed, so please, point out which two things you're talking about.

And it's not bad for the game, even if you're interpreting what I'm saying as negative.

It's not taken as a negative, its taken as being factually incorrect, and a spreading of misinformation.

All the material is in this topic, then if you do not want to see I can not do much else for the discussion.

Yeah, and it was just shown to you, and yet you're still disagreeing with it without saying what is different. So please, why dont you try actually explaining what youre talking about, instead of beating around the bush.

Then instead of turning around the speech, demonstrating with the facts that I'm doing wrong is the easiest thing to do

Already done, you've even replied to the exact post. Repeating it as if it didn't already happen is ridiculous.

 

[TheAdmiester]

This forzavista model is much better than what you find in game, so there are 2 distinct models:


Let's see if what I am saying is now clear

Except the second photo is also the Forzavista model...

EDIT: And now you've edited the post to change the image to the LOD 0 model, which is identical on the exterior. No difference in the two pictures besides that the FM7 picture is in a room with more lights.

 

[ImaRobot]

This forzavista model is much better than what you find in game, so there are 2 distinct models:

Let's see if what I am saying is now clear

So outside of the Lighting on those photos, which is not exactly the model of the car, what is different from what you're seeing? You claimed the models were different, so what between these models are different? Why not just say it? It's stupid to try to have people guess what you think.

It sounds like you're just mixing up the terminology.

 

[danh25]

So outside of the Lighting on those photos, which is not exactly the model of the car, what is different from what you're seeing? You claimed the models were different, so what between these models are different? Why not just say it? It's stupid to try to have people guess what you think.

It sounds like you're just mixing up the terminology.

the headlights, the general polygon modeling, the textures there is a NET difference

How can you not notice it?

 

[ImaRobot]

the headlights, the general polygon modeling, the textures there is a NET difference

How can you not notice it?

Probably because I'm not ignoring the evidence put forth.

The difference between the two photos is just the lighting.

 

[TheAdmiester]

The only difference between the FM7 and FH3 shots is that the car is in a brighter environment with more reflections in it. If I take the car to the rainforest in FH3 where all the trees reflect on the car and match the angle closely, you'll see the model is 100% identical to FM7's.

In terms of exterior modelling, there's *no* difference between Forzavista and gameplay, no argument about it.

Is this clear enough?

 

[tofuhero]

One thing I noticed is that the GTS model lacks the side chrome trim that the real 1972 A110 1600 S has. I have seen some photos of cars that lack the trim, so I don't know if this was an optional extra or if they are examples from later years.

On the Forza side, the boot seems to incorrectly curve inward; either that, or the reflections are messed up. Also, as mentioned, I don't believe the Alpine had a dual exhaust originally.

 

[emula]

One thing I noticed is that the GTS model lacks the side chrome trim that the real 1972 A110 1600 S has. I have seen some photos of cars that lack the trim, so I don't know if this was an optional extra or if they are examples from later years.

On the Forza side, the boot seems to incorrectly curve inward; either that, or the reflections are messed up. Also, as mentioned, I don't believe the Alpine had a dual exhaust originally.

there are a lot of alpine A110 without the side chrome trim like in GTS... but no one without the rear mirror like in forza

 

[ImaRobot]

there are a lot of alpine A110 without the side chrome trim like in GTS... but no one without the rear mirror like in forza

 

[inCloud]

In a topic of the former neogaf they had shown comparisons between forzavista and the game and the difference was very clear

Past gen Forza maybe?