America - The Official Thread

[Danoff]

Apparently he was elected to the senate in 2010 as a Democrat and the vast majority of the state leaned blue for him. He was previously the second Democratic governor WV had had in a row, and before that the state flip-flopped red and blue since the late 60s but had been majority blue for the entire 20th century. Even after Manchin left, the next two WV governors were also blue until 2017, after which Jim Justice switched his party to Republican during his first term. Yeah, that's right - WV elected a blue governor in 2016 who then proceeded to switch Red with the swelling of the Trumpian tide, or rather a Trump rally in WV in August 2017. West Virginians were bamboozled and they liked it. During the 2020 gubernational election, every single county went red, an approximately 70% reversal from the previous election.

WV having a history of being blue is apparently the norm. But Blues switching Red at the behest of Trump is absolutely unusual and stinks of quid pro quo, just as basically every other aspect of Trump's presidency. More evidence of the Republican prerogative to completely ignore their constituents and follow Trump's lead.

Edit: In 2018 the Republican transition of WV was nearly complete with Manchin scraping by on 49.6% of the vote to hold his Senate seat.

This suggests to me that Manchin will definitely not win his 2024 election as a Dem unless the political tides change again. I wouldn't put it past him to simply switch his party to give Republicans the majority. All of this evidence suggests he is absolutely working in lockstep with Republicans to derail Democratic efforts to accomplish anything and simply lying about it.

His stated goal is to not vote for something unless it's "bi-partisan", meaning he won't vote for it unless it has republican support... which... that does seem to make him a republican, at least in terms of policy. It's a weird statement, to arbitrarily align with the "other" side. He's not saying that there's anything wrong with a particular piece of legislation, but that it's somehow inherently wrong for republicans to not support it.

This means the democrats have no chance of passing something without republican support, and since the filibuster is in place, that's at least 10 votes. Meaning basically nothing will happen. I presume the only way the COVID-19 package got passed was because republicans voters supported it, even though none of their representatives voted for it in the Senate.

Well, democrats may not be rallied and energized by that lack of change, and anti-democratic efforts will continue in red states, but maybe some of the idiotic fear mongering won't stick either. So on the one hand, democrats may have trouble rallying the base. On the other hand, centrist voters will be harder to scare.

 

[Keef]

His stated goal is to not vote for something unless it's "bi-partisan", meaning he won't vote for it unless it has republican support... which... that does seem to make him a republican, at least in terms of policy. It's a weird statement, to arbitrarily align with the "other" side. He's not saying that there's anything wrong with a particular piece of legislation, but that it's somehow inherently wrong for republicans to not support it.

This means the democrats have no chance of passing something without republican support, and since the filibuster is in place, that's at least 10 votes. Meaning basically nothing will happen. I presume the only way the COVID-19 package got passed was because republicans voters supported it, even though none of their representatives voted for it in the Senate.

Well, democrats may not be rallied and energized by that lack of change, and anti-democratic efforts will continue in red states, but maybe some of the idiotic fear mongering won't stick either. So on the one hand, democrats may have trouble rallying the base. On the other hand, centrist voters will be harder to scare.

I don't think it's a weird statement on his part. It's genius. It is unfortunate for him that he entered this game as a Democrat - he wants to be a Republican because his constituents are now all Republicans. But he can't be - he can't switch parties because that would be an obvious partisan move. He talks about bi-partisanship to appear fair on the record but effectively he is the Republican that he wants to be but can't switch to without ruining his reputation. By "genius" what I mean is he's actively duping Democrats but to anybody who is actually paying attention - which by now is a lot of people - it's obvious as hell what he's doing and it's turning every Democrat against him. But that doesn't matter because none of his constituents are Democrats anymore. Actions speak louder than words - everything he's doing is being done on purpose. The next logical step will be for him to either switch parties mid-term or run for the other party during the next election.

He's just straight-up lying and doubling and tripling down on it. His words cannot be trusted. His constituents are Republicans and he must now be a Republican or his political career in WV is over. He has no other choice politically speaking. The past 100 years of WV's majority Democratic political history which Manchin once served officially died when Trump was elected. He didn't have the balls to switch parties so instead his strategy is to obstruct which is the stated goal of Republicans straight out of McConnell's mouth. Whatever Manchin states is hogwash - McConnell already told us precisely what Manchin is to do and he's doing it very effectively.

As for Sinema, I don't know. I think she's just an idiot.

Democrats need to focus squarely on Romney and convince him to align with Dems. At this point that's the only choice to get anything accomplished. Problem is, Romney's career will also be over because everything in Utah is Republican, even women and college graduates.

Edit: I could've sworn there was another Republican senator being chastized besides Romney. I forgot Cheney was in the House.

 

[Danoff]

I don't think it's a weird statement on his part. It's genius. It is unfortunate for him that he entered this game as a Democrat - he wants to be a Republican because his constituents are now all Republicans. But he can't be - he can't switch parties because that would be an obvious partisan move. He talks about bi-partisanship to appear fair on the record but effectively he is the Republican that he wants to be but can't switch to without ruining his reputation. By "genius" what I mean is he's actively duping Democrats but to anybody who is actually paying attention - which by now is a lot of people - it's obvious as hell what he's doing and it's turning every Democrat against him. But that doesn't matter because none of his constituents are Democrats anymore. Actions speak louder than words - everything he's doing is being done on purpose. The next logical step will be for him to either switch parties mid-term or run for the other party during the next election.

He's just straight-up lying and doubling and tripling down on it. His words cannot be trusted. His constituents are Republicans and he must now be a Republican or his political career in WV is over. He has no other choice politically speaking. The past 100 years of WV's majority Democratic political history which Manchin once served officially died when Trump was elected. He didn't have the balls to switch parties so instead his strategy is to obstruct which is the stated goal of Republicans straight out of McConnell's mouth. Whatever Manchin states is hogwash - McConnell already told us precisely what Manchin is to do and he's doing it very effectively.

As for Sinema, I don't know. I think she's just an idiot.

I think you're pretty much on the money here. When I say it's "weird", I mean it should make people start thinking like you already do, about ulterior motives.

 

[GranTurNismo]

As for Sinema, I don't know. I think she's just an idiot.

I don't think Sinema is an idiot, but she's definitely been corrupted and doesn't really have any core principles anymore.

I was reading up on Krysten Sinema, the senator from Arizona who is vehemently against the $15 min wage increase, along with 8 other democratic senators (I think the highest she'll compromise on is $11), and it seems that she has fallen victim to the DC establishment. Before her political career, she was a member of the Green Party and a self-described libertarian leftist (which is basically what I am) who gave speeches openly criticizing capitalism and the free market, believing in post-capitalist solutions such as syndicalism/worker co-ops. She was also an anti-war activist and engaged in anti-Iraq war protests, as well as supporting single-payer universal healthcare. Now, she has the second most conservative voting record out of any senate Democrat (only after good ol' Joe Manchin), and has taken large donations from defense contractors and fossil fuel companies. I'm not denying that she could have become more moderate as she got older, but I'm getting strong vibes that she is a grifter, and discarded her previous positions in the name of obtaining money and power. If that's true, than thats a real shame.

 

[TexRex]

Gov. Greg Abbott signs bill to punish businesses that require proof of COVID-19 vaccination

Texas businesses that require customers to be vaccinated against COVID-19 will be denied state contracts and could lose their licenses or operating permits under legislation Gov. Greg Abbott signed into law Monday.

“Texas is open 100%, and we want to make sure you have the freedom to go where you want without limits,” Abbott said before signing the law, in a video he posted Monday on Twitter. “Vaccine passports are now prohibited in the Lone Star State.”

Senate Bill 968 by state Sen. Lois Kolkhorst, R-Brenham, is a sweeping piece of legislation passed in the final days of the legislative session that includes a clause banning businesses from requiring proof of the vaccine from their customers.

Those that violate the ban may not contract with the state, and state agencies that oversee various sectors of business may decide to make compliance with the state law a condition of getting licensed or permitted.

Just under half of all Texans have gotten at least one dose of the vaccine. About 36.5% of Texans are fully vaccinated.

Abbott issued an executive order in April banning state agencies, political subdivisions and organizations receiving public funds from creating "vaccine passports" or otherwise requiring someone to provide proof of a COVID-19 vaccine in order to receive services.

Businesses may still implement “COVID-19 screening and infection control protocols in accordance with state and federal law to protect public health,” according to the new law, which goes into effect immediately.

Abbott’s signature on the new law comes as Carnival Cruise Line announced Monday that it would be restarting its cruises leaving from Galveston in July but only allow vaccinated passengers on board, after the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said it will allow the cruise industry to restart on the condition that 95% of crew members and 95% of customers are vaccinated. The CDC shut down cruise lines in March 2020.

Carnival Vista sails out of Galveston on July 3, followed by Carnival Breeze on July 15. It was unclear Monday how the new Texas law would affect those plans.

“We are evaluating the legislation recently signed into law in Texas regarding vaccine information,” Carnival spokesperson Vance Gulliksen said in an email, according to the Houston Chronicle. “The law provides exceptions for when a business is implementing COVID protocols in accordance with federal law, which is consistent with our plans to comply with the U.S. Centers for Disease Control & Prevention’s guidelines.”

Miami-based Carnival, Miami-based Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings and other cruise companies are still in a standoff with Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis over restarting their cruises with only vaccinated passengers in spite of new legislation that DeSantis signed in May that bans companies from requiring proof of vaccination from customers.

“We appreciate the progress and support for our U.S. restart from the CDC and other key federal agencies; however, the current CDC requirements for cruising with a guest base that is unvaccinated will make it very difficult to deliver the experience our guests expect, especially given the large number of families with younger children who sail with us,” said Christine Duffy, president of Carnival Cruise Line. “As a result, our alternative is to operate our ships from the U.S. during the month of July with vaccinated guests.”

The Florida law fines the businesses $5,000 for each customer required to do so. Norweigan has threatened to leave Florida if it is fined by the state for complying with CDC guidelines and checking vaccine status of its passengers.

Norwegian said Monday it would be restarting its cruises from Miami in August with fully vaccinated passengers and crew. The company does not currently operate out of Galveston but plans to start next year.

"Freedom for me but not for thee."

Royal Caribbean has already cracked as of Friday, complying with legislation that had already been signed into law in Florida and anticipating the Texas legislation being signed, revising its policy to not require passengers be vaccinated.

Big-ups to Norwegian for not caving to this ****ing right trash.

 

[Liquid]

Telling private enterprises what they can and can't do. How very party of business of you. Then again, the horse bolted from the stable on that one so long ago on that one that the horse's remains can no longer be carbon dated.

 

[Jezza819]

For Republicans to be so anti-regulation, they sure are enacting a whole bunch of heavy handed regulations telling independent businesses what they can't do.

 

[TexRex]

For Republicans to be so anti-regulation, they sure are enacting a whole bunch of heavy handed regulations telling independent businesses what they can't do.

This aggressive authoritarian push is highly disconcerting.

 

[Liquid]

I do find it curious how, to many hardline "Republicans", the Democratic Party is constantly held to its previous past as the domineering party of slavery, white supremacy, its links to the KKK and to other paramilitaries. It hasn't been allowed to change and be held under a contextual lens, therefore everything Democratic is bad. Yet right now, as we live and breathe, we're watching the Republican Party make that very same switch but in the opposite direction, towards a party of domineering anti-equality, pork barrel regulations, disenfranchisement and gerrymandering.

But you can throw the context monacle out of the window because we're not talking in the past, we're not talking 19th century, this is happening now and it's Republicans doing it.

 

[TexRex]

I do find it curious how, to many hardline "Republicans", the Democratic Party is constantly held to its previous past as the domineering party of slavery, white supremacy, its links to the KKK and to other paramilitaries. It hasn't been allowed to change and be held under a contextual lens, therefore everything Democratic is bad. Yet right now, as we live and breathe, we're watching the Republican Party make that very same switch but in the opposite direction, towards a party of domineering anti-equality, pork barrel regulations, disenfranchisement and gerrymandering.

But you can throw the context monacle out of the window because we're not talking in the past, we're not talking 19th century, this is happening now and it's Republicans doing it.

Confederates were conservatives, as Republicans--the party of Lincoln, who freed the slaves--purport to be, but Republicans love the Confederacy, who were Democrats, who Republicans hate. That'll knot your noodle.

 

[McLaren]

Gov. Greg Abbott signs bill to punish businesses that require proof of COVID-19 vaccination


"Freedom for me but not for thee."

Royal Caribbean has already cracked as of Friday, complying with legislation that had already been signed into law in Florida and anticipating the Texas legislation being signed, revising its policy to not require passengers be vaccinated.

Big-ups to Norwegian for not caving to this ****ing right trash.

I don't understand this approach from the states.

All these cruise lines work in an International circuit, right? What's stopping the Bahamas, Mexico, & any other location from denying those cruise lines from visiting if the cruise lines can not guarantee 95% of the ship is vaccinated? Do the ships sail anyway, but tell the customers later, "Hey, we can't actually get off b/c of you know who guests, but it's pretty from here, right?" Do they just find whoever is willing to comply? I get that the cruise lines likely have the upper hand as many of these places probably depend heavily on their tourism from the ships, but it's not a strong arm I agree with. It may work in the Caribbean circuit, but afaik, there are European cruises that depart out of Miami for the Mediterranean & I can't see Europe letting that fly if they want their cruise ships to be vaccinated.

The battle in Miami is interesting to see. Miami & the state relies heavily on tourism, but how much do the cruise lines rely on Miami for business?

 

[TexRex]

I don't understand this approach from the states.

All these cruise lines work in an International circuit, right? What's stopping the Bahamas, Mexico, & any other location from denying those cruise lines from visiting if the cruise lines can not guarantee 95% of the ship is vaccinated? Do the ships sail anyway, but tell the customers later, "Hey, we can't actually get off b/c of you know who guests, but it's pretty from here, right?" Do they just find whoever is willing to comply? I get that the cruise lines likely have the upper hand as many of these places probably depend heavily on their tourism from the ships, but it's not a strong arm I agree with. It may work in the Caribbean circuit, but afaik, there are European cruises that depart out of Miami for the Mediterranean & I can't see Europe letting that fly if they want their cruise ships to be vaccinated.

The battle in Miami is interesting to see. Miami & the state relies heavily on tourism, but how much do the cruise lines rely on Miami for business?

These aren't things Republicans are likely to concern themselves with. They clearly don't care about business and I figure they don't care about customers, either. This is and has always been about pandering to their base. It's an extension of "COVID-19 is a hoax to make Trump look bad" and they're happy to continue grabbing their ankles for him.

 

[Danoff]

I don't understand this approach from the states.

I think you might be more mature than I am. This is a very nice way to put "they have their heads in their rears".

 

[TB]

The battle in Miami is interesting to see. Miami & the state relies heavily on tourism, but how much do the cruise lines rely on Miami for business?

Based on the one and only cruise I've been on, we flew in to Miami simply because that's where the boat was. I couldn't have cared less where I flew in to.

I'm sure it's fairly difficult, but not insurmountable, to move port from Miami to somewhere that would play nice do the right thing but for Caribbean cruises, Miami was chosen for a reason. Moving port to Georgia or Alabama, assuming they wouldn't be tools about the vaccination thing (ha!) would use more fuel, make the cruises another day or more longer meaning they couldn't book as frequently. It would need to be a decent sized city with a large enough airport to support it, too.

Unless I'm missing something (likely), they kind of don't have much leverage here. They'll almost assuredly lose money either way - either from lack of customers or having to move shop or both.

 

[Danoff]

Based on the one and only cruise I've been on, we flew in to Miami simply because that's where the boat was. I couldn't have cared less where I flew in to.

I'm sure it's fairly difficult, but not insurmountable, to move port from Miami to somewhere that would play nice do the right thing but for Caribbean cruises, Miami was chosen for a reason. Moving port to Georgia or Alabama, assuming they wouldn't be tools about the vaccination thing (ha!) would use more fuel, make the cruises another day or more longer meaning they couldn't book as frequently. It would need to be a decent sized city with a large enough airport to support it, too.

Unless I'm missing something (likely), they kind of don't have much leverage here. They'll almost assuredly lose money either way - either from lack of customers or having to move shop or both.

I actually have one on the books that "sails" from Flordia. But they don't have to. That being said, as you say, there aren't a ton of options for states from which to launch Caribbean cruises that aren't bordered by cult45 anti-vax nutjobs.

I know Disney has a private island, maybe they need to install an airport.

 

[TB]

I know Disney has a private island, maybe they need to install an airport.

I was just thinking the same thing.

Edit: Norwegian Cruise Line already has their own island, too. Just slap an airport on it and tell Florida to 🤬 off.

 

[Danoff]

I was just thinking the same thing.

Edit: Norwegian Cruise Line already has their own island, too. Just slap an airport on it and tell Florida to 🤬 off.

Actually... I wonder if they could be even more clever than that. They can let you board the cruise ship in Florida without requiring vaccination, but letting you know that your cruise actually officially sails from the island. Once you get to the island, everyone gets off, and only the people vaccinated are allowed back on. You know ahead of time this is going to happen on the island, so you don't board in Florida unless you're vaccinated - because otherwise you'll be stranded on the island.

If that's too close for comfort, they could use a ferry to the island. No requirement to be vaccinated to board the ferry... but you don't get on the real boat at the island unless you're vaccinated.

 

[Blitz24]

Actually... I wonder if they could be even more clever than that. They can let you board the cruise ship in Florida without requiring vaccination, but letting you know that your cruise actually officially sails from the island. Once you get to the island, everyone gets off, and only the people vaccinated are allowed back on. You know ahead of time this is going to happen on the island, so you don't board in Florida unless you're vaccinated - because otherwise you'll be stranded on the island.

If that's too close for comfort, they could use a ferry to the island. No requirement to be vaccinated to board the ferry... but you don't get on the real boat at the island unless you're vaccinated.

While they could do this, Florida will immediately attempt to go after them and could always go after the "international waters" argument (not even suggesting they have a point, just playing devil's advocate).

 

[Danoff]

While they could do this, Florida will immediately attempt to go after them and could always go after the "international waters" argument (not even suggesting they have a point, just playing devil's advocate).

Actually... now that I'm thinking it through...

The cruise ship doesn't actually have to reach the port. They can sit outside the port in international waters. The ferry doesn't have to go to the island, it just has to get you to the boat which is sitting off the coast. After everyone has boarded, they can come in to port to get supplies.

 

[Blitz24]

Actually... now that I'm thinking it through...

The cruise ship doesn't actually have to reach the port. They can sit outside the port in international waters. The ferry doesn't have to go to the island, it just has to get you to the boat which is sitting off the coast. After everyone has boarded, they can come in to port to get supplies.

While loopholes here work, you might want to not bring the ship into port as it will be subject to Florida jurisdiction. Unless you perform the testing in international waters...

 

[Danoff]

While loopholes here work, you might want to not bring the ship into port as it will be subject to Florida jurisdiction. Unless you perform the testing in international waters...

I think all they want to do is require proof of vaccination, no testing. So you show your proof in international waters as you get off the ferry. The ship officially sails from international waters off the coast, and just makes port in Florida to pick up supplies (or not, they don't have to). They might even get away with putting your bags on the cruise ship in Florida, and not letting you get on until they're in international waters.

If they wanted to get super cute, which they probably shouldn't, they could let everyone on the boat in Florida without requiring vaccination, and then not actually "check them in" until they're off the coast. So everyone stands on the upper deck or something waiting to check in until they're outside Florida jurisdiction, and then they're checked in with proof of vaccination.

 

[TexRex]

Actually... now that I'm thinking it through...

The cruise ship doesn't actually have to reach the port. They can sit outside the port in international waters. The ferry doesn't have to go to the island, it just has to get you to the boat which is sitting off the coast. After everyone has boarded, they can come in to port to get supplies.

I've done two cruises. On the shorter of the two, I boarded the big ship from land once, on the first day, and deboarded the big ship to land once, on the last day. Between the first and last days, I traveled between the big ship and land by smaller (which isn't saying much, as massive as the big ship was) water vessel no fewer than six times. I gather this is pretty typical.

 

[Famine]

Did anyone, anywhere have on their Muppet bingo card for the day "Republican congressman for Texas asks if the Forest Service and Bureau of Land Management can change the Moon's orbit to combat climate change"?

If you somehow did, mark the card:



https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...earth-orbit-moon-climate-change-b1862732.html

 

[Rossell2]

I.... I just......



I'm off to bed....

 

[TexRex]

Did anyone, anywhere have on their Muppet bingo card for the day "Republican congressman for Texas asks if the Forest Service and Bureau of Land Management can change the Moon's orbit to combat climate change"?

If you somehow did, mark the card:



https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...earth-orbit-moon-climate-change-b1862732.html

Louie Gohmert is low hanging fruit. He's "put the light directly into the body" energy all the danged time.

 

[Touring Mars]

Did anyone, anywhere have on their Muppet bingo card for the day "Republican congressman for Texas asks if the Forest Service and Bureau of Land Management can change the Moon's orbit to combat climate change"?

If you somehow did, mark the card:



https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...earth-orbit-moon-climate-change-b1862732.html

The kicker is, he seems to be pissed off that some people seem to think that BLM stands for Black Lives Matter.

What a stupid bastard.

Seriously, with people like this in charge, I absolutely despair for the future of America.

 

[UKMikey]

I think @TB tree'd this story by about half an hour on another thread but Gohmert's defenders under that tweet are calling this "obvious sarcasm" on the basis that nobody could be this stupid.

Bear in mind that this is the guy who said that terrorists were sending women to the States to become pregnant and give birth on American soil so they could take them away and train them as terrorists that could infiltrate the US more easily.

 

[McLaren]

We're not sending our best from Texas.

 

[Keef]

Did anyone, anywhere have on their Muppet bingo card for the day "Republican congressman for Texas asks if the Forest Service and Bureau of Land Management can change the Moon's orbit to combat climate change"?

If you somehow did, mark the card:



https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...earth-orbit-moon-climate-change-b1862732.html

Because adjusting celestial orbits is like tuning a guitar, you just tighten the strings and all the colorful balls get closer together or further apart. It's easy!

The kicker is, he seems to be pissed off that some people seem to think that BLM stands for Black Lives Matter.

What a stupid bastard.

Seriously, with people like this in charge, I absolutely despair for the future of America.

He represents Texas's 1st district which includes the city of Nacogdoces (pronounced Knock-a-doe-chase in Murican). It's basically a municipal trailer park.

 

[TexRex]

Because adjusting celestial orbits is like tuning a guitar, you just tighten the strings and all the colorful balls get closer together or further apart. It's easy!

You obviously use space lasers.