America - The Official Thread

[Famine]

this economy

That shooter should go to jail indefinitely for what he did.

You... want to put a dead guy in prison for all time?

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Ugh... he got past police stationed at the school. Something's not adding up. He crashed near the school, exited his vehicle, fought with officers who were stationed AT the school, and somehow was still able to gain entry...

Something somewhere failed in that chain. That school should have been locked up tight by then.

Not a very good case for good guy(s) with a gun here if this is all true. Staggering.

 

[CodeRedR51]

As I said earlier, my kindergartener participates in active shooter drills. As I mentioned earlier, the security measures my school takes during operation were the same security measures that thwarted a would-be school shooter in California.

In short, you don't seem to know what you're talking about.

Its sad that shooter drills are even necessary. My brother insisted that schools have locked doors and armed teachers at all times. Sounds like a prison to me. Stuff like this is why I have zero plans to have kids. Don't feel like bringing anyone into this screwed up world.

 

[Blitz24]

Ugh... he got past police stationed at the school. Something's not adding up. He crashed near the school, exited his vehicle, fought with officers who were stationed AT the school, and somehow was still able to gain entry...

Something somewhere failed in that chain. That school should have been locked up tight by then.

From what was reported, he had body armor and they were unable to prevent him from gaining access.

Yeah, it should be on lockdown until the end of this year. That shooter should go to jail indefinitely for what he did. Trying to take the lives of innocent children! What an outrage!

He's kind of dead, so that would be unnecessary.

 

[Danoff]

From what was reported, he had body armor and they were unable to prevent him from gaining access.

It's that second part that I don't understand. How was the exterior not locked up by the time he got there. Sounded like they had plenty of warning. I did some scrutinizing at my school when I picked my kids up, and I think there are some exterior doors that could use improvement. I'll be chatting with the administration about it.

 

[R3V]

That seems absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to solve. Good point. [/s]

You want every school to have a full security system and personnel like a prison? Are you serious? Even if you ignore the monetary cost, this is an insane suggestion.

To keep honest people honest? You're... you're just saying random words at this point that make no sense.

You're not following, then.

My kids already participate in drills where they hide in a closet from a hypothetical shooter out to kill them.

I don't think they should be doing this either. At least not overtly. We did air raid drills at school when there was fear Saddam was going to retaliate by bombing the US Navy 5h fleet's base here. I was a teenager and still feel disturbed by it. Kids at school shouldn't be worried about anything like this. I'm sorry your kids and American kids in general have to go through it.

Do you want to help prevent dead kids or not?

Yeah. Start by having strong labor rights.

There's fat/ugly/loser/incel kids around the world and many have access to guns. American parents are overworked and spend the little time they have arguing about money or getting a divorce rather than spending time with their kids. I think this, and maybe lead poisoning is the cause of Americans being violent.

Fighting with your spouse? It's probably about this

If you argue with your partner about money and finances, join the club. It's the most common stressor in a relationship, a new survey finds.

www.cnbc.com

Money is the root of all evil. Work on eliminating poverty and reducing the wealth gap. The rest of the problems will either get fixed on their own or become easier to fix. There's no quick and lazy solution that's going to stop mass shootings from happening.


edit

From what was reported, he had body armor and they were unable to prevent him from gaining access.

The cowardly police THOUGHT he had armor and decided to wait for back up, letting him go into the school. At least from what I gathered, as I mentioned last night.

 

[TexRex]

How Republicans don't forget to breathe is beyond me. Just the absolute stupidest mother****ers.

 

[Populuxe]

Fear of majority-minority changes perceptions of race | Cornell Chronicle

The threat of demographic change may alter who white Americans perceive as racial minorities, potentially making more people vulnerable to discrimination, suggests new Cornell psychology research.

news.cornell.edu

"The threat of demographic decline, the researchers suggest, motivates white Americans to lower their threshold for assigning racially ambiguous faces to historically subordinate groups. Doing so bolsters white status by raising the bar for who is considered white, they argue."

"Overall, the research presents “strong convergent evidence,” the scholars said, that the threat of demographic change motivates white Americans to shore up white status by making it more exclusive – altering who they perceive as minorities."

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

How Republicans don't forget to breathe is beyond me. Just the absolute stupidest mother****ers.

I believe they are the experts on backdoors though.

 

[kjeldsen]

Ugh... he got past police stationed at the school. Something's not adding up. He crashed near the school, exited his vehicle, fought with officers who were stationed AT the school, and somehow was still able to gain entry...

Something somewhere failed in that chain. That school should have been locked up tight by then.

But a guy posted on the interweb that they just needed more security at schools, then **** like this would stop. I did suggest banning guns was a better option. But maybe he doesn't read the onion?

Home

America's Finest News Source

www.theonion.com

 

[Tornado]

Except it's not an option, so you're just pissing in the wind.

 

[NotThePrez]

But a guy posted on the interweb that they just needed more security at schools, then **** like this would stop. I did suggest banning guns was a better option.

Banning guns in America is 100% not an option. It is legitimately impossible to do so in an effective manner that doesn't create massive short- or long-term repercussions.

Active measures like proper security, metal detectors, etc., while I personally wouldn't be crazy about them, would be a more effective, more thorough, and much less costly option. I would definitely prefer to have measures like that implemented first.

But maybe he doesn't read the onion?

Home

America's Finest News Source

www.theonion.com

As much as I love what The Onion is doing right now, you do know that it's primarily a satirical website, and isn't exactly the best thing to use to make a strong point, right?

 

[kjeldsen]

Banning guns in America is 100% not an option. It is legitimately impossible to do so in an effective manner that doesn't create massive short- or long-term repercussions.

Active measures like proper security, metal detectors, etc., while I personally wouldn't be crazy about them, would be a more effective, more thorough, and much less costly option. I would definitely prefer to have measures like that implemented first.

As much as I love what The Onion is doing right now, you do know that it's primarily a satirical website, and isn't exactly the best thing to use to make a strong point, right?

The thing with the Onion is that they are essentially saying the same thing you are saying. "There isn't a way to prevent this" and they then add, "says the only nation where this regularly happens". Other nations had liberal or as i call them, bat**** crazy gun laws and they did succeed in banning weapons after they saw what those guns did to kids. And let's be frightening honest, if the crazy idiot with a gun can't get to his targets in school he will find another way. What's next, armoured school busses?

 

[NotThePrez]

The thing with the Onion is that they are essentially saying the same thing you are saying. "There isn't a way to prevent this" and they then add, "says the only nation where this regularly happens". Other nations had liberal or as i call them, bat**** crazy gun laws and they did succeed in banning weapons after they saw what those guns did to kids.

Umm, no. I said that it was impossible to ban guns in America without some significant repercussions, which is a matter of fact. The chief repercussion being that the people who are generally law-abiding citizens no longer have guns to protect themselves, and the people who do not care about such laws to begin with and already have guns of their own (such as potential school shooters) now have a significant power advantage over the general populace. It's really not hard to see how badly that can potentially go.

What I did not say was that it's impossible to prevent these incidents. Rather, I also went along with the suggestion of having increased security measures at schools to make the task of smuggling a gun onto school grounds much more difficult. That is an option that has greater potential for effective results while also not being nearly as costly as attempting to ban guns.

And let's be frightening honest, if the crazy idiot with a gun can't get to his targets in school he will find another way.

Perhaps, but having proper and effective active measures like the ones @Danoff suggested would make that task significantly more difficult for the would-be assailant. And if they were to somehow get past them (or forgo the gun for a different weapon), having effective active measures on the school grounds would greatly limit the potential damage that could be caused.

 

[McLaren]

Frustrated onlookers urged police officers to charge into the Texas elementary school where a gunman’s rampage killed 19 children and two teachers, witnesses said Wednesday, as investigators worked to track the massacre that lasted upwards of 40 minutes and ended when the 18-year-old shooter was killed by a Border Patrol team.

“Go in there! Go in there!” nearby women shouted at the officers soon after the attack began, said Juan Carranza, 24, who saw the scene from outside his house, across the street from Robb Elementary School in the close-knit town of Uvalde. Carranza said the officers did not go in.

Upset that police were not moving in, he raised the idea of charging into the school with several other bystanders.

“Let’s just rush in because the cops aren’t doing anything like they are supposed to,” he said. “More could have been done.”

“They were unprepared,” he added.

Meanwhile, a law enforcement official familiar with the investigation said the Border Patrol agents had trouble breaching the classroom door and had to get a staff member to open the room with a key. The official spoke on the condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak publicly about the ongoing investigation.

Carranza said the officers should have entered the school sooner.

“There were more of them. There was just one of him,” he said.

Onlookers urged police to charge into Texas school

A mass shooting at a Texas elementary school left 19 children and two adults dead, adding to a gruesome series of mass killings in America.

apnews.com

Cops sat outside & waited for a Border Patrol team to go in, who then had to have a teacher unlock the door?

 

[TexRex]

Onlookers urged police to charge into Texas school

A mass shooting at a Texas elementary school left 19 children and two adults dead, adding to a gruesome series of mass killings in America.

apnews.com

Cops sat outside & waited for a Border Patrol team to go in, who then had to have a teacher unlock the door?

Good guy with a key.

 

[GBO Possum]

It might be worth while re-asking the question why parts of America are so dangerous that the residents feel compelled to arm themselves with multiple guns. Getting to the root cause of excessive gun ownership might help.

Full disclosure. I live in Massachusetts which apparently has the lowest rate of gun ownership in America. If I leave home and then remember I forgot to lock the door behind me, I never worry about it. If I hear a loud noise, I assume something fell, or a car backfired. To the best of my knowledge, nobody in my neighborhood has been robbed. I hear that taxes are lower in states where there are lots of guns. There is that. Maybe it’s good for them.

 

[McLaren]

Good guy with a key.

#BackTheKey?

 

[Blitz24]

Good guy with a key.

Apparently the police cannot get into a locked door. I guess the door DID its job.

 

[Pupik]

I've said it before in the guns thread, and I'll re-iterate here. The first step toward fixing this problem in America is for schools to ban backpacks, a heavy coat check at the front door, and metal detectors.

Security is still lax at schools. I don't know why that's tolerated.

The same reasons that we have a weak border: (1) nobody wants to pay for it through taxes, even though it's "more jobs" (2) the public sees security generally as an added nuisance (3) added security makes many people feel like we're in a police state or going down a slippery slope (4) security is perceived as someone who does nothing during 75-90% of their shift (5) successful increased security sometimes leads to more indolence, something slips through the cracks and the cycle repeats itself.

 

[merseyxshore]

I love visiting your country, I have many friends over there and I look forward to flying over again next week. But jfc what an insane place.

 

[GBO Possum]

I love visiting your country, I have many friends over there and I look forward to flying over again next week. But jfc what an insane place.

Some parts more insane than others

 

[Danoff]

You want every school to have a full security system and personnel like a prison? Are you serious? Even if you ignore the monetary cost, this is an insane suggestion.

A prison is not a good comparison. I don't remember suggesting that kids be locked in cages. Better comparisons are the ones I already stated, places like courthouses, government offices, and airports. Hell we have security at football games and concerts. I used to work in a building that had a metal detector, I don't remember feeling like I was in a prison.

I don't think they should be doing this either. At least not overtly. We did air raid drills at school when there was fear Saddam was going to retaliate by bombing the US Navy 5h fleet's base here. I was a teenager and still feel disturbed by it. Kids at school shouldn't be worried about anything like this. I'm sorry your kids and American kids in general have to go through it.

No, they shouldn't have to be worried about anything like this, but they do have to. Because it happens. So they do drills so that they can save lives. What is with all of the denying of reality in this thread? It's not going to go away just because you don't want it to be the case.

There's fat/ugly/loser/incel kids around the world and many have access to guns. American parents are overworked and spend the little time they have arguing about money or getting a divorce rather than spending time with their kids. I think this, and maybe lead poisoning is the cause of Americans being violent.

While you're working on all of that, I'd like my kids' school to tighten security.

Money is the root of all evil. Work on eliminating poverty and reducing the wealth gap. The rest of the problems will either get fixed on their own or become easier to fix.

Not that I think you're on to something here, because I don't, but I'm not going to bank my kids' safety on the notion that the wealth gap is going to be eliminated and that will somehow make 18 year olds not want to shoot 4th graders.

There's no quick and lazy solution that's going to stop mass shootings from happening.

There are some things we can do today to improve security in schools. I'm not going to sit here and cry about inequality and hope that something gets done while kids are getting shot. This is not an impossible problem. It's not nearly as hard as protecting, for example, a shopping mall.

It might be worth while re-asking the question why parts of America are so dangerous that the residents feel compelled to arm themselves with multiple guns. Getting to the root cause of excessive gun ownership might help.

This guy wasn't some 50 year old with a collection of 20 guns. He was an 18 year old that was able to buy an AR-15 and then take that AR-15 into a school. Most of the people with big gun collections don't do it because they feel that America is super dangerous. I own 6 guns, I don't do it because I feel that America is dangerous. Only 2 of those guns can really be used in any way. I don't have it because I think something will happen, I have it because I like to be prepared.

Full disclosure. I live in Massachusetts which apparently has the lowest rate of gun ownership in America. If I leave home and then remember I forgot to lock the door behind me, I never worry about it. If I hear a loud noise, I assume something fell, or a car backfired. To the best of my knowledge, nobody in my neighborhood has been robbed. I hear that taxes are lower in states where there are lots of guns. There is that. Maybe it’s good for them.

Don't think that this can't happen in Massachusetts.

The same reasons that we have a weak border: (1) nobody wants to pay for it through taxes, even though it's "more jobs"

I don't see how security at the school takes a back seat to anything.

(2) the public sees security generally as an added nuisance

It's already a nuisance to access the school. During covid, for a while, I wasn't even allowed in the school. I think we're past that.

(3) added security makes many people feel like we're in a police state or going down a slippery slope

It's a school, not a public park.

(4) security is perceived as someone who does nothing during 75-90% of their shift

I think with school shootings we're past that.

(5) successful increased security sometimes leads to more indolence, something slips through the cracks and the cycle repeats itself.

Every incident is an opportunity to learn. Even when security is successful.

 

[Joey D]

Other nations had liberal or as i call them, bat**** crazy gun laws and they did succeed in banning weapons after they saw what those guns did to kids

A vast majority of nations don't have the right to bear arms as part of their constitutions. Currently, only Guatemala, Mexico, and the United States have something in their constitutions regarding it and only the US doesn't specify any restrictions. For the umpteenth time, you can't ban guns in the US because it's part of the Constitution. I'm guessing you don't live in the US, so I get it, the Constitution might not make sense to you, but anyone that lives here that's taken a basic intro to government course in high school should know that changing the Constitution, especially the Bill of Rights, is difficult and rightfully so.

It might be worth while re-asking the question why parts of America are so dangerous that the residents feel compelled to arm themselves with multiple guns.

Like anywhere, larger cities are going to be more dangerous, but crime can and does happen everywhere. I lived in rural Michigan and someone attempted to break into my house with my wife sitting on the couch in the middle of the day. It took the police nearly an hour to respond and when they arrived, they didn't do jack despite the guys attempting to break in being still in the neighborhood. That day I went out and bought my pistol since I was leaving town the next day for a week. I instructed my wife to shoot first and ask questions later if someone came through the door since she'd likely be dead before the police got off their ass and did something.

For me it's not so much feeling like I'm in danger, but rather I think the police are useless.

Also, considering how insane the right-wingers are getting, I'd rather be armed than not.

I hear that taxes are lower in states where there are lots of guns.

Sometimes. Gun ownership in Utah is high yet I pay out the ass in taxes.

I love visiting your country, I have many friends over there and I look forward to flying over again next week. But jfc what an insane place.

While I don't disagree some parts of America are completely nuts, for the most part, it's a good place. I haven't been to the UK in years, but I do still have family there and talk to them fairly regularly. It's amazing how skewed the view on America is over there. The number of people who think the entire country is full of armed cowboys shooting minorities for the helluva it is alarmingly high. Remember, the US has 330 million people in it, statistically, we're going to have crazy ones.

 

[Touring Mars]

Some parts more insane than others

View attachment 1154311

Here is that list color-coded in terms of whether they are typically 'red' or 'blue' states (capitals/bold indicates the 5 most heavily red or blue states in each case), purple 's' indicates 'swing' states i.e. the four least red/blue - ordered from top to bottom/least gun deaths to most gun deaths per state:

bbbbBbbBbsrrbBbsbbbbrbrbRrrrrrBrrbBbrssrrRbrrrrrRR

Yep, no pattern there at all...

 

[R3V]

Seems what I posted is somewhat confirmed. Not that I advocate for "good guy with gun" idea, as it makes things worse, but holy **** the death toll could've been a lot higher if the killer used the 40-60 mins he had until cops went in.

Onlookers urged police to charge into Texas school

A mass shooting at a Texas elementary school left 19 children and two adults dead, adding to a gruesome series of mass killings in America.

apnews.com

Did the police allow him to go shoot up the school while waiting for back up? And it took a hero customs agent going in to take him out? This is obviously a developing story, but that is a WILD if true. I know police in America in general have been anything but heroes, but this would be next-level cowardice. "Your job is to go home" said every coward ever. A policeman's job is to make sure everyone else goes home, even if it means DYING for it.

The cowardly police THOUGHT he had armor and decided to wait for back up, letting him go into the school. At least from what I gathered, as I mentioned last night.

^

A prison is not a good comparison.

The prison comparison is to having multiple surveillance cameras, fences all around the school and a dedicated security team. That is really the only way to maybe reduce the instances of this.

It's not going to go away just because you don't want it to be the case.

It's not going away with extra security either. Reinforced doors and a security guard are harmless but I wouldn't want to unnecessarily mentally strain and terrify the kids with all other extra stuff. Making everyone feel like we're living in a war zone all the time in exchange for reducing school shootings by 1 or 2 per year? It sounds harsh, but "the terrorists win" if we do that.

I think it's better to tackle the root cause(s) of this to prevent shootings from happening altogether.

 

[Danoff]

It's not going away with extra security either. Reinforced doors and a security guard are harmless but I wouldn't want to unnecessarily mentally strain and terrify the kids with all other extra stuff. Making everyone feel like we're living in a war zone all the time in exchange for reducing school shootings by 1 or 2 per year? It sounds harsh, but "the terrorists win" if we do that.

That doesn't make any sense.

I think it's better to tackle the root cause(s) of this to prevent shootings from happening altogether.

I'm interested in doing what we can now. Not just thoughts and prayers about what might be someday different. Yes, the root cause is important. It's a long term solution, and we need more than that today.

 

[TexRex]

How Republicans don't forget to breathe is beyond me. Just the absolute stupidest mother****ers.

Me: "There can't be many stupid mother****ers actually defending this idiocy."

Also me: "Oh, right. There's got to be about 72 million of them in the US alone."

Oops. Profanity in one of the screenshots in this one.

Spoiler

 

[Joey D]

Reinforced doors and a security guard are harmless but I wouldn't want to unnecessarily mentally strain and terrify the kids with all other extra stuff.

I'd rather have a mentally strained kid than a dead kid. Even then, security is everywhere now and every kid in school now was born in a post-9/11 world so they've never known a world without increased security. I mean I remember a time when anyone could go into an airport without a ticket and get back to the gates.

 

[Danoff]

I'd rather have a mentally strained kid than a dead kid.

This.

@R3V

Sol Pais hopped on a plane to denver on the anniersary of columbine with the intent to recreate the shooting. She bought a shotgun upon arriving and every school in the state went into lockdown at the news. The next day the entire state cancelled school. She was found dead in the woods, I think that day.

At the time, one of my kids was in preschool. The students did their drill, where they entered into the classroom, and packed all of the kids into what is essentially a locked closet and gave them lollipops to stay silent. My daughter at the time was 4 years old. They didn't stay in there all day, I think mostly they just practiced it. But they kept the kids inside from the playground and locked all of the exterior doors.

At the end of the day my daughter explained to me that someone dangerous was in colorado and was actually outside the window of her classroom trying to get in. The person was a wolf, she said. She had a very active imagination. I've gone through the story with her multiple times to explain that nobody was outside her classroom trying to get in, and that the girl they were worried about was off in the woods. My daughter wanted to know what happened to her, I explained that she was dead.

Sol was mentally disturbed, and was failed by... just about everything. I'm glad that she didn't harm anyone else. I'm glad that the schools went into lockdown. I'm not as glad that every school cancelled the next day. I'm glad that my daughter practiced the drill, and I don't mind explaining to her what happened. It is part of her reality. It's an unfortunate reality, but all of our kids need to know about active shooters, and practice what to do in that situation. That's regardless of all of the rest of the discussion about guns.

So the idea that a metal detector, which that same little girl has been through plenty of times at the airport and elsewhere, is somehow going to cripple her mentally is absurd.