America - The Official Thread

[Keef]

That's a new one. The Trump defence has always been not that he didn't do [x] but that he's allowed to do [x]. This one is not that he didn't do [x] but that the guy saying he can't do [x] isn't allowed to say that...

Cannon is a plant and can't be trusted. This needs to be appealed to somebody above her.

Edit: And the proof is that Cannon decided based on Thomas's SC footnote, despite Thomas continuining to write that the question is unanswered (and therefore should be impossible to base a court decision on).

Basically yet another bad decision by a Trump-aligned judge with the goal of delaying all of this until he's either in office or he dies and can't be prosecuted.

The song is called Hey Man Nice Shot, idiot.

 

[Fezzik]

Cannon is a plant and can't be trusted. This needs to be appealed to somebody above her.

Edit: And the proof is that Cannon decided based on Thomas's SC footnote, despite Thomas continuining to write that the question is unanswered (and therefore should be impossible to base a court decision on).

It's all irrelevant really. The whole point is to delay until November. Even if the order gets overturned by a higher court it'll just get appealed all the way up to the Supreme Court and they won't hold a hearing anytime soon.

 

[Pupik]

...all right, statistically everyone who wasn't undergoing the Ludovico Technique bat an eyelash within the 60 seconds of Trump claiming there would be WWIII if he wasn't elected.

 

[Fezzik]

Does this mean that Hunter Biden was illegally prosecuted by a special counsel as well?
Does it mean that Robert Hur was illegally appointed to investigate Joe Biden?

 

[McLaren]

Cannon is a plant and can't be trusted. This needs to be appealed to somebody above her.

I mean, hell, anyone could tell that by the sheer fact she's the one judge Trump has not said a single word about or riled up his base towards. Even when he has not specifically named McAfee, his reposting of multiple videos from Fox when they criticized McAfee b/c he denied Trump's motion to dismiss Willis caused McAfee to be a target of MAGA hatred.

 

[Tornado]

Congratulations to Aileen Cannon on her Supreme Court appointment on February 1st, 2025.

 

[Touring Mars]

Cannon should be fired, but no-one has the balls.

 

[Keef]

Cannon should be fired, but no-one has the balls.

It's not that no-one has the balls, it's that 95% of Floridians wear brown shirts and think Cannon is doing God's work. AOC introducing articles of impeachment against the SC proves it can be done easily.

 

[Joey D]

It's not that no-one has the balls, it's that 95% of Floridians wear brown shirts and think Cannon is doing God's work. AOC introducing articles of impeachment against the SC proves it can be done easily.

I think he was making a cannon pun...

 

[Sprite]

I think he was making a cannon pun...

I think the pun just flew over his head.

 

[Keef]

@Touring Mars missed me so wide I didn't even hear it whizz past.

 

[McLaren]

@Touring Mars missed me so wide I didn't even hear it whizz past.

 

[MIE1992]

My understanding is that this thread is for federal matters - you don't suppose we should we have a separate thread for state-by-state matters, should we?

 

[TexRex]

My understanding is that this thread is for federal matters - you don't suppose we should we have a separate thread for state-by-state matters, should we?

No. There has never been any such limitation imposed and state matters are discussed frequently. Also this particular discussion regards federal matters, which is why the events are occurring in federal court (which happens to be in a state because only the DC circuit and SCOTUS are not in states).

 

[Keef]

My understanding is that this thread is for federal matters - you don't suppose we should we have a separate thread for state-by-state matters, should we?

What kind of 1861 suggestion is this? Our union is strong!

I think this thread has plenty of space for all sorts of state issues like have been discussed many times. Most state issues are ultimately American issues anyway.

 

[Liquid]

Regional food and drink gets a pass in this thread. Other members bring up local issues in Ohio, Michigan and Texas. Don't oversaturate the board. This singular thread is fine.

 

[Pupik]

Cannon should be fired, but no-one has the balls.

Developing story: Canon to be shot

 

[FuriousDemon]

I think we’re ****ed whether Trump wins elections this time or not. If he somehow manages to fumble the freest election of all time, the next republican president is going to win in 4 years and then he’ll just put some more SC judges and basically have the laws rewritten little by little. Unless somehow moderate republicans abandon GOP in droves and organize another party, but it’s not gonna happen. We already have moderate right party anyway - it’s called Democrats. Anyway, hope I’m wrong, but now that trumpism is out of the box I’m not sure how we’re ever putting it back in the bottle.

 

[Danoff]

I think we’re ****ed whether Trump wins elections this time or not. If he somehow manages to fumble the freest election of all time, the next republican president is going to win in 4 years and then he’ll just put some more SC judges and basically have the laws rewritten little by little. Unless somehow moderate republicans abandon GOP in droves and organize another party, but it’s not gonna happen. We already have moderate right party anyway - it’s called Democrats. Anyway, hope I’m wrong, but now that trumpism is out of the box I’m not sure how we’re ever putting it back in the bottle.

Trumpism relies on Trump - a candidate that holds religious fervor among their constituents. The only reason Trump is able to get away with what he is, and able to seize power the way he is, is because of the number of people that are all aligned in wanting him to. They do not seem to be willing to align for any other republican figure.

Trump has created a lot of long-lasting problems, but I think the biggest one is how much he has unified support for himself. Without Trump, a lot of their proposals don't happen.

If Trump doesn't take office in 2025, we may be able to at least stop taking damage. The healing process will be long, and will require the perspective of time and subsequent generations.

Best case scenario, it's a democrat in office in 2025, and then I think it still takes 30 years to recover, if ever. I thought we were there already, because I did not think Trump could manage to run again. I definitely don't think he could manage the same 4 years from now.

 

[FuriousDemon]

Trumpism relies on Trump - a candidate that holds religious fervor among their constituents. The only reason Trump is able to get away with what he is, and able to seize power the way he is, is because of the number of people that are all aligned in wanting him to. They do not seem to be willing to align for any other republican figure.

Trump has created a lot of long-lasting problems, but I think the biggest one is how much he has unified support for himself. Without Trump, a lot of their proposals don't happen.

If Trump doesn't take office in 2025, we may be able to at least stop taking damage. The healing process will be long, and will require the perspective of time and subsequent generations.

Best case scenario, it's a democrat in office in 2025, and then I think it still takes 30 years to recover, if ever. I thought we were there already, because I did not think Trump could manage to run again. I definitely don't think he could manage the same 4 years from now.

Hm…It’s possible he’s a special case, but the next candidate could kind of follow his playbook and drum up support over a few years and make all the right deals and promises to guarantee victory. I guess we’ll see what actually happens, but in my eyes it’s a matter of when not if, even if Trump’s out of the picture. Really hope I’m wrong, but seems like we’ll need a string of miracles to recover.

 

[Danoff]

Hm…It’s possible he’s a special case, but the next candidate could kind of follow his playbook and drum up support over a few years and make all the right deals and promises to guarantee victory. I guess we’ll see what actually happens, but in my eyes it’s a matter of when not if, even if Trump’s out of the picture. Really hope I’m wrong, but seems like we’ll need a string of miracles to recover.

I think some other candidates have tried that approach and failed. I do think there is something about him that captures absurd loyalty in a way that others have not managed.

I'm not sure how many miracles we need. But mostly it's one foot in front of the other. Right now, more than anything, we need Trump not to take office in 2025. I say that contemplating that he's old and might not make it to 2025. He also can certainly lose the election, and should. If he wins the election, I'm not entirely sure that he takes office without some kind of armed conflict - because I have trouble imagining the current administration being willing to turn over the US military to the guy who is an obvious enemy of the nation. There may be some kind of armed conflict started by either side sometime this fall or in January. January 6th 2.0 if you will.

We failed to have a peaceful transfer of power in 2020. I won't be assuming that it goes peacefully the next time either.

 

[Blitz24]

Hm…It’s possible he’s a special case, but the next candidate could kind of follow his playbook and drum up support over a few years and make all the right deals and promises to guarantee victory. I guess we’ll see what actually happens, but in my eyes it’s a matter of when not if, even if Trump’s out of the picture. Really hope I’m wrong, but seems like we’ll need a string of miracles to recover.

I mean, we don't know what the next 4 years will bring, but the Republican party at this moment doesn't have someone who could be the next Trump. DeSantis isn't charismatic, Greene and Bohbert are not intelligent enough to pull it off, Jordan is too old, Cruz is too Cruz.

 

[HenrySwanson]

Something that makes you feel good about the future:

 

[Keef]

Something that makes you feel good about the future:

What I see in this video is a fairly well-educated, cultured, and universally respected man who for some reason has never had a desire to enter politics and try to make practical changes. There are a lot of really smart people out there who could do good things, or at least be good people, who have never touched politics for whatever reason.

Makes me wonder if we really need to stop voting for people who want to be in politics. In my opinion, the people who want to make decisions that effect others are often the last person who should be making those decisions, simply because they think they know what is best. That's a sign of over-confidence in my opinion.

 

[Danoff]

What I see in this video is a fairly well-educated, cultured, and universally respected man who for some reason has never had a desire to enter politics and try to make practical changes. There are a lot of really smart people out there who could do good things, or at least be good people, who have never touched politics for whatever reason.

Makes me wonder if we really need to stop voting for people who want to be in politics. In my opinion, the people who want to make decisions that effect others are often the last person who should be making those decisions, simply because they think they know what is best. That's a sign of over-confidence in my opinion.

I agree that someone needs to be strong-armed into the job.

 

[Imari]

Makes me wonder if we really need to stop voting for people who want to be in politics. In my opinion, the people who want to make decisions that effect others are often the last person who should be making those decisions, simply because they think they know what is best. That's a sign of over-confidence in my opinion.

I don't think wanting to lead the country is necessarily disqualifying, it's more about the reasons that people want the power.

There have been people who wanted to make the country a better place, and that's an excellent reason both to want and be given power. In a general sense that is how you could describe the people who are considered to have been the best leaders.

But in the culture we currently live in that so idolises "winning" at zero-sum games and viewing everyone else as a enemy or an opponent to be beaten, the people who want power mostly just want it so that they can dominate other people even harder. And the resources they have at their disposal are orders of magnitude greater than anyone who is simply in it for the greater good.

The idea that someone could want power for non-selfish reasons is almost unthinkable to us, and that's why what you say sounds like sense. In the current environment, it makes sense. It is sensible.

But what we have now is not stable. If you feel like your best shot at a decent leader is picking someone at random who doesn't really want to be there, that's a big sign that the system you have is borked. It's basically monarchy but with faster turnover.

Politics needs to not be attractive to people who are in it for the wrong reasons. It should be boring, and unglamorous, and slightly unpleasant. People who do it should do so because they believe that things need to be done or changed despite all that. But the sort of world you'd need to create anything approaching that sort of system is lightyears away from where the world is right now. Right now the advantages of power are so obvious and so completely disconnected from anything related to good governance that it's amazing anything gets done at all.

 

[GBO Possum]

Cannon should be fired, but no-one has the balls.

 

[Danoff]

Politics needs to not be attractive to people who are in it for the wrong reasons. It should be boring, and unglamorous, and slightly unpleasant.

In other words, politicians should not have much power.

 

[Meythia]

politicians should not have much power.

As long as power and money is seperated, then it would be working just fine.
A politician ideally was doing it because he desperatly wants to improve quality of life for all citizens and accepts his pay is directly tied to the median income of the country he serves.
All problems solved.

But who in the right mind would agree to a salary cut of 90%

 

[Danoff]

As long as power and money is seperated, then it would be working just fine.

If only that were possible. It is not, power itself automatically creates money.

Think of it a bit like potential and kinetic energy. If you create a new product that everyone wants to buy, but keep it for yourself, you have potential money. It hasn't been realized yet, but the demand has been created in the act of creating the product. If you bring it to market, you convert that potential money into kinetic money (if you follow my metaphor here). The same is true of power. Power is itself potential money. If you're a skilled craftsperson, you have power, the power to create a demanded product. If you choose, at any time, you can convert that power (potential money) to kinetic money simply by exercising your skill. All that a powerful politician needs to do is accept a bribe and it becomes kinetic money.

You cannot give a politician power without giving them potential money.