America - The Official Thread

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LOL, you guys have it hard. I had trouble believing this and looked for more info. It gets worse.

Concerned with the media's coverage of the trial of Jeff Olson, a 40-year-old man facing charges over anti-bank messages written in washable chalk on city sidewalks, San Diego Judge Howard Shore issued a gag order Thursday prohibiting him and others involved in the case from speaking to the press.

I don't know exactly what a "gag order" is and what rationality may be behind it. The laws I know around here have no similar rule, of course judges, jury, prosecutors, police, witnesses, may not discuss the criminal cases they are responsible of in public. But the accused can never be prohibited to say whatever he wants, wherever he wants, about the case he/she is facing.

Poor banks, spending thousands of dollars to wash chalk. Chalk-washing in America must be a very profitable business :lol:
 
I don't know exactly what a "gag order" is and what rationality may be behind it. The laws I know around here have no similar rule, of course judges, jury, prosecutors, police, witnesses, may not discuss the criminal cases they are responsible of in public. But the accused can never be prohibited to say whatever he wants, wherever he wants, about the case he/she is facing.
The purpose is to avoid the accused from tainting the potential jurors by talking publicly about things that aren't permissible in court, but a jury couldn't be expected to not have in their minds. It's kind of senseless because the attorney will mention freedom of speech at some point, the judge will threaten him or lock him up overnight for contempt (if he warns them in advance) and then direct the jury to disregard the statement. Of course, the jury can't just delete it from their memory and the lawyer knows that, making a night in jail worth it.

The other issue, which is more likely in this case, is if any statements can harm a third party. Here, the defense can make public statements against the banks, blaming the banks, and affecting their business. Some gag orders can be limited to specific topics, such as the identity of a rape victim to prevent intimidating them, but in this case the act was about banks, done in front of banks, evidence is from bank security cameras, and he was reported by the banks. Basically, I suspect this is to avoid the banks raising a defamation complaint. Although, the way this judge has been ruling things I wouldn't be surprised to find he or someone putting pressure on him is connected to the banks in some way.

Poor banks, spending thousands of dollars to wash chalk. Chalk-washing in America must be a very profitable business :lol:
It's called rain.

And statements like this are likely why the judge is forcing the defense into silence. Problem is, the nature of the case is already known. All he is doing is minimizing the damage.
 
OK, I understand he was joking and it was sarcasm, but why joke about death and killing? I know I'm not notorious with this stuff, but lets say you said you were going to bring a gun to school. If the person you told had heard this and you were not in favor, they would tell someone with higher authority. Then, the principle would yell at you and you would say "I was just joking". That still does not wash away everything. It came out of his mouth and he shouldn't have said it in the first place.
 
OK, I understand he was joking and it was sarcasm, but why joke about death and killing? I know I'm not notorious with this stuff, but lets say you said you were going to bring a gun to school. If the person you told had heard this and you were not in favor, they would tell someone with higher authority. Then, the principle would yell at you and you would say "I was just joking". That still does not wash away everything. It came out of his mouth and he shouldn't have said it in the first place.
Wait, aren't you the person who the other day said that a news story you didn't bother reading makes you want to shoot yourself in the head?

You should immediately be incarcerated in a secure hospital to prevent you from doing harm to yourself. After all, you're a potential suicide.
 
Joking on an online game and bringing and gun to school are not even in the same ballpark.
You wouldn't get yelled at either, you'd get arrested.
 
OK, I understand he was joking and it was sarcasm, but why joke about death and killing?
Because he is a teenager. Remeber thise days, where nothing you dud was actually smart? Why don't you just ask why teens have unsafe sex snd do drugs. If you seriously believe this is worth criminal charges and needs to be reported I suggest you start watching Twitter. You could become the international vigilante hero of thought policing. You could wear a spandex outfit and call yourself the Poor Taste Monitor.


I know I'm not notorious with this stuff, but lets say you said you were going to bring a gun to school. If the person you told had heard this and you were not in favor, they would tell someone with higher authority. Then, the principle would yell at you and you would say "I was just joking". That still does not wash away everything. It came out of his mouth and he shouldn't have said it in the first place.
Your fake example is far different from.

Teen 1: Dude, your crazy.
Teen 2: I know. I'm going to shoot up a school. Lol jk
Teen 1: lol
Nosey old hag with no life: POLICE!!!!!!


Let me readdress this.
OK, I understand he was joking and it was sarcasm, but why joke about death and killing?
With this.

Quick! Arrest Ron Livingston and Mike Judge. They made a joke about shooting up an office.





In other news of over zealous law enforcement.
http://mobi.dailyprogress.com/progress/pm_5199/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=QD76VKml

When a half-dozen men and a woman in street clothes closed in on University of Virginia student Elizabeth Daly, 20, she and two roommates panicked.

That led to Daly spending a night and an afternoon in the Albemarle-Charlottesville Regional Jail. Her initial offense? Walking to her car with bottled water, cookie dough and ice cream just purchased from the Harris Teeter in the Barracks Road Shopping Center for a sorority benefit fundraiser.

A group of state Alcoholic Beverage Control agents clad in plainclothes approached her, suspecting the blue carton of LaCroix sparkling water to be a 12-pack of beer. Police say one of the agents jumped on the hood of her car. She says one drew a gun. Unsure of who they were, Daly tried to flee the darkened parking lot.

"They were showing unidentifiable badges after they approached us, but we became frightened, as they were not in anything close to a uniform," she recalled Thursday in a written account of the April 11 incident.

"I couldn't put my windows down unless I started my car, and when I started my car they began yelling to not move the car, not to start the car. They began trying to break the windows. My roommates and I were ... terrified," Daly stated.

Charlottesville Commonwealth's Attorney Dave Chapman read Daly's account and said it was factually consistent.

Prosecutors say she apologized profusely when she realized who the agents were. But that wasn't good enough for ABC agents, who charged her with three felonies. Prosecutors withdrew those charges Thursday in Charlottesville General District Court, but Daly still can't understand why she sat in jail.

Hey ABC, identify yourself immediately whrn you are in plain clothes or expect more of this crap. Be glad she didn't carry. Complete idiots putting themselves and the public at risk by creating a panic. Any injuries to the agents were their own fault and a deserved lesson.
 
Wait, aren't you the person who the other day said that a news story you didn't bother reading makes you want to shoot yourself in the head?

You should immediately be incarcerated in a secure hospital to prevent you from doing harm to yourself. After all, you're a potential suicide.

:lol: I didn't read the story and took Slashfan's word for it.
 
haha i read the article of.the.arrested kid, that's one of the most idiotic things that i've read in a lot of time.
How can somebody get arrested for saying something in a game!

Poor kid :(
 
:lol: I didn't read the story and took Slashfan's word for it.

But you still joked about death, in this particular case your own - which is the exact thing you just decried as being stupid, thoughtless and should be taken seriously.. I'm confused..
 
Congratulations, 'Murica. You've fallen to the level of China and Middle East in terms of freedom of expression. Happy now?

People like MW, who blindly support the kid's prison sentence, aren't exactly making it better either.
 
Ergo, you should be placed on suicide watch immediately.

:Facepalm: You guys tell me that he was being sarcastic, yet I was obviously not serious about shooting myself in the head. When I say that, I mean that what happened made me upset. I took Slashfan's word and did not read the article.
 
What did Slashfan tell you exactly?

___________

Tracking your car, collecting and storing the data on where it is when and with pictures.

http://cironline.org/reports/license-plate-readers-let-police-collect-millions-records-drivers-4883

The paperback-size device, installed on the outside of police cars, can log thousands of license plates in an eight-hour patrol shift. Katz-Lacabe said it had photographed his two cars on 112 occasions, including one image from 2009 that shows him and his daughters stepping out of his Toyota Prius in their driveway.

That photograph, Katz-Lacabe said, made him “frightened and concerned about the magnitude of police surveillance and data collection.” The single patrol car in San Leandro equipped with a plate reader had logged his car once a week on average, photographing his license plate and documenting the time and location.

At a rapid pace, and mostly hidden from the public, police agencies throughout California have been collecting millions of records on drivers and feeding them to intelligence fusion centers operated by local, state and federal law enforcement.

A snip from the article, it's a good read.
 
:Facepalm: You guys tell me that he was being sarcastic, yet I was obviously not serious about shooting myself in the head. When I say that, I mean that what happened made me upset. I took Slashfan's word and did not read the article.

We're taking your word and NOT reading the signs...Now Shhhh! You're on suicide watch.

Back in the rubber room.
 
Bloody hell, Ireland has blasphemy laws and even then it's starting to look more free than America.
 
:Facepalm: You guys tell me that he was being sarcastic, yet I was obviously not serious about shooting myself in the head.
Yes. Allow me to furnish you with the point that you are desperately missing.

You say that this kid deserves to be locked for a sarcastic comment about shooting people made with no sense of seriousness simply because it makes him a potential threat to life. Meanwhile, elsewhere, you made a sarcastic comment about shooting yourself made with no sense of seriousness simply because it makes him a potential threat to life. Thus, by your own argument, you deserve to be locked up.

Or your entire point is rendered facile and neither of you deserve to be locked up for words that carry no weight or meaning.

Take your pick, Mr. Saavik.
 
DK
Bloody hell, Ireland has blasphemy laws and even then it's starting to look more free than America.

i don't think that the US is an example of freedom.
Maybe it was like 100 years ago.

1 example:
It's the country with more people jailed in the world.
 
i don't think that the US is an example of freedom.
Maybe it was like 100 years ago.

1 example:
It's the country with more people jailed in the world.

I agree, but not with your example. High amounts of prisoners doesn't correlate with eroded freedoms. It has to do with population size and other factors within the society.
 
Congratulations, 'Murica. You've fallen to the level of China and Middle East in terms of freedom of expression. Happy now?

People like MW, who blindly support the kid's prison sentence, aren't exactly making it better either.

Oh, because I make such a difference, right?!
 
The U.S. is home to 5% of the world's population yet we incarcerate 25% of the world population, over 20% of those are for drug related charges. When you add in the number of people on parole or probation it's quite staggering.

I agree it's not a direct indication of eroding freedoms, we have failing social policies to address, such as our education system, entitlement programs, war on drugs, and elitist suppression tactics.

EDIT: Just realized I worded that poorly to say the least. we incarcerate 25% of the world's prison population of course.
 
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Oh, because I make such a difference, right?!

"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it."
-Ayn Rand


"Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting submission.

How did this happen? Who's to blame? Certainly there are those who are more responsible than others. And they will be held accountable. But again, truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty you need only look into a mirror.

I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't you be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you. And in your panic, you turned to the now High Chancellor Adam Sutler. He promised you order, he promised you peace, and all he demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent."
-V from V for Vendetta.




You see, despite what our dear leaders in Washington would have you believe, we still live in a Democracy. Their only power to oppress us is in what we allow them to do. The coerce and lie to convince us all that there is a threat around every corner. They paint an enemy and tell us that we must give up some freedoms to stop it by hey give us the false choice of death or loss of liberty, but then tell us the lost liberty isn't actually much of anything. They will try to scare you, accuse those who don't scare of being heartless, cruel, or sympathizes of the enemy, or even the enemy itself. Whether it is fear of a false enemy or fear of retribution, they try to make you let them do what they wish out of fear.

The only way to stop them is to not give in to fear and challenge them.
 
http://original.antiwar.com/thomas-...nt-people-should-fear-the-nsas-prism-program/

Why Innocent People Should Fear the NSA’s PRISM Program
by Thomas R. Eddlem, July 01, 2013

The use of warrantless surveillance by the NSA has brought a wave of naïve statements from a segment of Americans who claim they have nothing to fear from NSA surveillance of their telephone calls and internet traffic because they’ve done nothing wrong.

Obviously, the NSA and its employees are capable of using any violation of law to intimidate or blackmail a voter or public official, such as the millions of Americans who have experimented with illegal drugs. In fact, the past three Presidents – Barack Obama, George W. Bush and Bill Clinton – would basically be ineligible for office on illegal drug use charges, based on their own published statements. And as Senator Rand Paul (R-KY) said in a June 24 op-ed for USA Today, the three would be "barely employable" under our current drug laws.

The NSA would also obviously be able to intimidate/blackmail anyone who has had an extra-marital affair, which could be a corrupting influence on a future Bill Clinton in office.

But what if you, like many who have said in recent weeks, have not broken the law or engaged in an extra-marital affair in recent years? What do you have to fear?

In fact, there’s quite a bit to fear. Not everything embarrassing which can be used for blackmail or intimidation requires that a person have serious moral failings or to have committed crimes. In short, you have much to fear if you or anyone in your family have:

* seen a psychiatrist or counselor;
* a personal medical issue, such as cosmetic surgery, an eating disorder, take medication related to erectile disfunction, bowel or urinary tract issues, warts, sexually transmitted diseases, etc.;
* had an abortion;
* viewed pornography of any kind;
* closeted homosexual views;
* said anything negative about a friend, relative or boss behind their back;
* experimented with alcohol under the legal age;
* arguments between spouses, or between parents and children when passions are at their highest;
* had financial difficulties, such as a bankruptcy or home foreclosure;
* had poor grades in high school or college;
* had employment difficulties, such as disciplinary letters in your file or have been fired.

The list could go on much longer, but the point is that even innocent people have many things about their lives they do not want exposed.

And hundreds of thousands of people currently have access to this data. Consider that the NSA employs an estimated 40,000 people. Add a percentage of that number to the many officials in other federal security agencies (such as the CIA, FBI, DHS, U.S. Secret Service) and branches of the armed forces who would have access to the information. But that’s only the tip of the iceberg. Consider that NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden didn’t even work for the NSA; he was employed by Booz Allen Hamilton, one of many technology subcontractors hired by the NSA. Tens of thousands of people who don’t even work for the federal government, who instead work for private contractors, also have access to the information.

Ultimately, hundreds of thousands of government officials and private citizens would have access to the private information on every American citizen, and have the potential to blackmail and intimidate both innocent and guilty. All it would take is one – just one – of those several hundreds of thousands of government employees and contractors to have a grudge against you, or against an organization or political party you support.

Edward Snowden’s revelations were a warning in a way that perhaps he did not intend. The takeaway from the Snowden scandal is that the NSA is already incapable of keeping its data secret from wayward employees. Snowden exposed this terrible power to the public, though he did so as a public service. But suppose the next employee who leaks is not so publicly-minded. Suppose he sends the personal files of leading Republican politicians to dirty Democratic Party operatives (or he’s a Republican ideologue who sends files on Democratic politicians to leading Tea Party organizations).

The potential for abuse of this private information is not limited to grand political conspiracies, though the IRS scandal targeting Tea Party organizations is more than ample evidence that government officials have and are doing this (as was Richard Nixon’s "enemies list" and Watergate scandal). Access to this data is available to people in many communities across the nation. What if a neighbor has access to the data and bears a grudge against you, punishing you with a controlled leak of embarrassing information about you or a family member throughout the neighborhood or to your employer?

Some people would say – despite the IRS scandal – that the cost and risk is worth it for increased safety from the threat of terrorism. But is the United States really safer by searching the phone records of grandmothers and corn farmers? The Fourth Amendment – which bans warrantless searches of the type in which the NSA is engaging – should be seen as a guideline for effective police and intelligence work.

The Fourth Amendment bans "unreasonable searches and seizures," and then defines what is meant by unreasonable:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

In essence, the Fourth Amendment requires that searches have 1. a warrant from a judge, 2. evidence of probable cause, 3. the warrant signed by an official under the penalties of perjury, and 4. the warrant describes what officials are looking for and where they expect to find it.

Searches without probable cause are – by definition – searches of people who are probably innocent. And that’s a tremendous waste of law enforcement/intelligence manpower and resources.

Perhaps the best example of this is the case of the Boston Marathon Bombing. Alleged Boston Marathon Bombers Tamerlin and Dzhokar Tsarnaev had been under the watchful gaze of the FBI in the years before the bombing, but the FBI did not devote sufficient resources to surveillance of these brothers, despite Tamerlin’s increasingly radical rhetoric on-line. FBI surveillance of these likely suspects, despite diplomatic communication from Russia that they could be Islamic terrorists, was met by the wall of limited resources … tens of billions of dollars in resources that had been diverted to watching hundreds of millions of Americans who are not terrorists. The FBI simply didn’t have the manpower to watch likely suspects because the NSA was spending that money checking up on unlikely suspects, like cataloging and storing your mom’s emails and GPS data about her trip to the grocery store.

The question for Americans is not whether the the government can check up on all possibilities; that kind of analysis could never happen in a world of limited resources. The question is where anti-terrorism resources are best directed. The Fourth Amendment at least guarantees that tax dollars for preventing terrorism will be spent effectively, i.e., toward people where there is "probable cause" of criminality, while at the same time preventing the horrific kind of surveillance state that once plagued East Germany.
 
Go team America! Invading internet privacy like a boss!

Supposedly, many of our leaders in government, business, media and academia are convinced we are at war - war with terrorism and potentially a war of civilizations with Islam*. So if we live in a jungle, we must live by the law of the jungle and be the meanest beast in the jungle. Even though we really believe might makes right and the ends justify the means, we normally want to paint ourselves in the piety and righteousness of high causes like democracy and human rights. Sometimes, like now with Snowden, the facade drops away, our mascara runs, and ugly truths are revealed.

*I disagree. I think war is a racket.
 
The only way to stop them is to not give in to fear and challenge them.

"An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must NEVER let them take it from us."
 
In spite of all the negativity, one of the things I appreciate about being American is just how much strangers are willing to help each other in desperate times of need. We're currently dealing with large wildfire out here in Arizona, many people have lost their homes, and some have lost their lives (r.i.p. to the 19 fallen fire fighters). The picture below is a small testament to the saying "United we stand, divided we fall..." This is the first load of water that has been donated by three families and a local business.

1013833_10200674231990442_808654764_n.jpg
 
In spite of all the negativity, one of the things I appreciate about being American is just how much strangers are willing to help each other in desperate times of need. We're currently dealing with large wildfire out here in Arizona, many people have lost their homes, and some have lost their lives (r.i.p. to the 19 fallen fire fighters). The picture below is a small testament to the saying "United we stand, divided we fall..." This is the first load of water that has been donated by three families and a local business.
When it comes to helping others Americans seem to be quick to do the right thing. We see it time after time in every disaster. The citizens have a good heart.

It's when FEMA shows up that it starts to go wrong.




As this week is 4th of July (US Independence Day for you forners who don't know the significance to us 'Mericans), I present to you a little Independence Day rap.

 
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No, it's the 4th of July for us too.

I'm just explaining why we get out of work, eat incredibly unhealthy food, and play with fire on the fourth day in July.

Unless you all celebrate the 4th of July too, but that seems odd, particularly for the British.

I'll add clarification in my post.
 
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