America - The Official Thread

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Famine
I'll wager that none of the kids were taught how to say it, made to recite it or even informed what the translation of it was.


Until the complaints that is. Now everyone knows what it means.
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They weren't provided the translation on the assignment, nor was told orally.

I hate to say this on this specific thread, but there were plenty of Christians in that class (A World Geography class for the record). Writing that specific statement should mean denying Christ. I would have gladly ate a 0 if this was presented to me in this context, but thankfully, most of my informative years was in a pre-9/11 world.
 
Sanji Himura
They weren't provided the translation on the assignment, nor was told orally.
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Then it's not really an indoctrination in anything is it? It's quite clearly presented as an example of Arabic calligraphy within the context of calligraphy being important in Islamic art due to the aniconism of the religion.

If they were taught how to say it or ordered to recite it, it would be. As it is, it's just an example of something for them to draw - not even write!
Sanji Himura
I hate to say this on this specific thread, but there were plenty of Christians in that class (A World Geography class for the record). Writing that specific statement should mean denying Christ.
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I'm pretty sure God wouldn't get angry at badly copying something thinking it's art but which, without your knowledge, is actually a statement 'denying Christ'. Or maybe he might - he's been known to be a bit petulant like that in his younger days. What if I was doing a brass-rubbing of the phrase from a piece of relief art in a ruin?

It'd be like me mumbling "Anatheistsayswhat?" and then taking the response of "What?" to mean that you're an atheist...

a-sphincter-says-what-o.gif


And whereas before the meaning wasn't obscured because it wasn't relevant, now all the kids know the meaning thanks to all the whining about it.

Then, because the phrase is in a different language with odd characters, we'll all forget. Except a handful of people who'll think that ALL Arabic script everywhere is the shahada.
 
My take on this:
Firstly, I love calligraphy and Arabic calligraphy intrigues me just as much as any other type, so to see Arabic as a way of calligraphy is pretty nice.
Secondly it cannot be an indoctrination for the simple reason that SAYING it, or writing it, does not make you a Muslim. The intention of any person there was not to become a Muslim, it was to learn art. Therefore it is not in their heart and they are not Muslim because of it.
Lastly, denying Christ? Seriously? One of the CORE beliefs of a Muslim is to BELIEVE in Jesus Christ. Yes, maybe not the same as Christians to, but to deny the existance of Jesus and the fact that he is (and yes, this is part of the beliefs) the saviour of mankind too, is against the beliefs of Islam. Don't believe that and you are not a Muslim anyway, so there is no denial of Christ there anyway.

However, there are better phases they could have used to demonstrate Arabic calligraphy. Something like "We study at ________ school" in Arabic would have sufficed. But they'd have to ask someone to write that in fancy calligraphy first...
 
prisonermonkeys
How about this part first?
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So I take it you'd have no objection then to a cursive writing class for ESL students in America, learning to write by practicing, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light".

And if some atheist claimed it was an attempt by right wingers to indoctrinate all the little ESL school kids into Christianity, you'd defend them by asking for a lesson plan, scope and sequence and the programming to back it up, and if they can't, this claim amounts to complete and utter BS?
 
Johnnypenso
So I take it you'd have no objection then to a cursive writing class for ESL students in America, learning to write by practicing, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light".
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To continue the parallel... there would need to be no translation of the text available, the passage should be a common one associated with the religion and you'd need a class of non-anglo-alphabetists who had quite possibly never even seen the form before.

Showing examples of other cultures isn't indoctrination.
 
Johnnypenso
So I take it you'd have no objection then to a cursive writing class for ESL students in America, learning to write by practicing
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No, I have objections to people making broad, sweeping claims that they don't back up with any hard evidence. Sanji Himura claimed that the point of the lesson was to teach children the supposed superiority of one religion over all of the others. What is his proof of that?

Johnnypenso
And if some atheist claimed it was an attempt by right wingers to indoctrinate all the little ESL school kids into Christianity, you'd defend them by asking for a lesson plan, scope and sequence and the programming to back it up, and if they can't, this claim amounts to complete and utter BS?
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Yes, I would.

It amounts to BS because as a teacher, everything that you do is documented, both lesson by lesson and in the wider year-long programs. It gets documented to track student development, demonstrate that teachers are achieving student outcomes, ensuring that subject content is being covered, acting as evidence of ongoing formal and informal assessment, and serving as a general outline of the academic year.

So if the point of the lesson was to teach children that one religion is superior to all others, there is going to be evidence in those documents.
 
I thought that there was another thread on this, but the "Affluenza kid" Ethan Couch has allegedly fled the country with his mother. Ethan (now 18), who was sentenced to 10 years probation after killing 4 people while driving drunk back in 2013, has gone missing since a video popped up on social media with friends playing beer pong. Under terms of his probation, he is not allowed to drive, use drugs or alcohol. A violation of probation would earn him 10 years in prison.

Prosecutors (who happen to be in Tarrant County, by the way) think that Couch and his mother fled last month when they filed paperwork to have his case transferred from the juvenile courts to the adult courts, a standard operating procedure for when a defendant turns 18. With Couch on the lam, that means that this paperwork will never be completed, and when he is caught, he would have to be sentenced as a juvenile, regardless of age.

Until he is physically back in a juvenile court room, his case will remain a juvenile court case," Tarrant County Sheriff Spokesperson Terry Grisham says. "It can't be moved with him gone, and he knew that; he has good lawyers. So, he could conceivably be gone for 20 years, come back when he's 38, and still have an active case in juvenile court. I think that may have prompted him and his mother to depart the area."

He is now in the National Fugitive Database.

During the June 2013 crash, Couch's BAC was three times the legal limit, and there is still a civil suit pending in relation to the crash.

http://www.people.com/article/afflu...n-violation?xid=socialflow_facebook_peoplemag
 
Famine
If they were taught how to say it or ordered to recite it, it would be.
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Speaking of which, when are you going to bring your kids over Stateside so they can begin reciting the greatest Pledge of Allegiance of all? You can buy a few guns while you're at it. We have MX-3s too, ya know.
 
No charges in the Tamir Rice Shooting. Press conference happening now. I'm watching by way of FOX 10 Phoenix streaming service on YouTube.
 
Sanji Himura
They weren't provided the translation on the assignment, nor was told orally.

I hate to say this on this specific thread, but there were plenty of Christians in that class (A World Geography class for the record). Writing that specific statement should mean denying Christ. I would have gladly ate a 0 if this was presented to me in this context, but thankfully, most of my informative years was in a pre-9/11 world.
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If that's the biggest reason you're upset about it, then I think you're taking religion a little too seriously.
 
Sanji Himura
I hate to say this on this specific thread, but there were plenty of Christians in that class (A World Geography class for the record). Writing that specific statement should mean denying Christ. I would have gladly ate a 0 if this was presented to me in this context
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I'm still waiting for you to provide evidence that the point of the lesson was to teach students about the superiority of one religion over another. Is there any particular reason why you haven't done this? You were very confident at the time, so I have to assume that you at least have something. If not, then the least that you could do is acknowledge it. Otherwise it's just plain rude.
 
In Legal: Ethan Couch Edition

This version of In Legal addresses the Ethan Couch case and all that it entails. Source for analysis.

(Full Disclosure: I am not a lawyer. Just someone who is interested in the legal system.)

Tonya and Ethan were in Mexico on tourist visas that expired.

Concerning Tonya Couch: She is now in US (in Los Angeles actually) and charged with "Hindering the Apprehension of a Felon." She has a $1 million bond. However, as a condition, the bond has to be paid in Texas (Fort Worth), something that she can't do legally in California.

Ethan was granted a temporary stay in Mexico as he fights extradition to the US. Tarrant County is currently underway (as they were trying to do before Ethan fled the US) to transfer his sentence to an adult court. However, this does bring some legal hurdles. The sentence for violating probation in as a juvenile carries a maximum of 120 days in jail. Since Ethan would be a clean slate in the eyes of the adult court, that would be the maximum that he would face. However, since he was sentenced as a juvenile, the sentence for violating probation would be considerably lighter, according to Tarrant County District Attorney Sharen Wilson. [Note: the sentence would force him to serve 102 days, as his 19th birthday would fall on April 11th, 2016.]

Once he is out of jail, however, he still has 8 years probation remaining on his sentence, which would most likely be supervised by the adult courts. According to Tarrant County Sheriff Dee Anderson, the restrictions for probation under the adult courts would be much more strict. Moving Couch to the adult system also holds an advantage for prosecutors. If he violates probation while under the adult system, he could be sentenced to 40 years in prison.
 
I'm bemused by the fact that he was tried as a juvenile for crimes related to driving a car, which is normally considered an adult activity. I'm assuming he had a valid drivers' license at the time.
 
BobK
I'm bemused by the fact that he was tried as a juvenile for crimes related to driving a car, which is normally considered an adult activity. I'm assuming he had a valid drivers' license at the time.
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I guess it depends on the driving age in the state, in the UK you can take different types of vehicles on the road at 14, 16 and 17 respectively.
 
TenEightyOne
I guess it depends on the driving age in the state, in the UK you can take different types of vehicles on the road at 14, 16 and 17 respectively.
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In Texas, you can learn at 15, full license at 16 to renew every year until your 18, which renews every 6 years after that. Also, to prevent underage drinking, if you are under 21, your license is designed one way with the license you get after you turn 21 designed another.
 
Sanji Himura
In Texas, you can learn at 15, full license at 16 to renew every year until your 18, which renews every 6 years after that. Also, to prevent underage drinking, if you are under 21, your license is designed one way with the license you get after you turn 21 designed another.
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Ours is almost the same except for the learning period. Ours is a permit at 16 and the ability to get your license at 16 1/2 (but you've got to get lots of hours in and obviously pass the driving test).
 
Johnnypenso
So I take it you'd have no objection then to a cursive writing class for ESL students in America...
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For your comparison to make any sense, it would need to be a calligraphy lesson where non-English-speaking Arabic students were being asked to write an English phrase, for which they were not provided a translation, in cursive. Which for them would feel like drawing instead of writing, as they would have zero familiarity with our writing system.

---

prisonermonkeys
I'm still waiting for you to provide evidence that the point of the lesson was to teach students about the superiority of one religion over another. Is there any particular reason why you haven't done this? You were very confident at the time, so I have to assume that you at least have something. If not, then the least that you could do is acknowledge it. Otherwise it's just plain rude.
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@Sanji Himura I'd actually really like to see this as well. Since you haven't retracted your statement yet, I assume you have evidence to substantiate it?
 
If you are opposed to Real ID and live in a state that hasn't complied you might soon have trouble getting past the TSA.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/29/b...e-state-drivers-licenses-for-travel.html?_r=0

It won't let me copy and paste, but the general overview is that of the non-compliant states all but five have extensions until October to come into compliance. The other fives states are either filing for extensions or subject to non-compliance and rejection at airports. The main option for travelers then will be a passport.

According to the article, it was the recent attacks in Paris and California that spurred this move. Never let a tragedy go to waste.

Federal government can make laws regarding things that are clearly state jurisdiction. The federal government and their supporters will push back on fears of encroachment by saying that it can't force states to comply. Sure, no military or federal police will march into your state capital and arrest the politicians, but they can use subversive tactics to make non-compliance a giant pain or a financial disaster.

The federal government doesn't use force, it uses lies, deception, money, and manipulation to make states complicit. No armies marching in, but a large group of armed thugs telling people they don't have the right to certain forms of travel does exist.


The worst part about this is that it is already fairly well known that the TSA is just security theater.



So, this will likely do little to help security at the airports and will mostly just force us all on to one more government registry. Why? Heck if I know. They got me on taxes, social security, any banking info, any phone records they want, and they already have records of my travel and possibly the fact that I always opt-out for a pat down.
 
FoolKiller
They got me on taxes, social security, any banking info, any phone records they want, and they already have records of my travel and possibly the fact that I always opt-out for a pat down.
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...and this is why I opted for pre-check. Give them information they (and China) already have on me in exchange for rolling back passenger screening techniques to pre-9/11? Yea sign me up.
 
Danoff
...and this is why I opted for pre-check. Give them information they (and China) already have on me in exchange for rolling back passenger screening techniques to pre-9/11? Yea sign me up.
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I've only flown three times in the past 20 years. Not worth the time/money.
 
huskeR32
@Sanji Himura I'd actually really like to see this as well. Since you haven't retracted your statement yet, I assume you have evidence to substantiate it?
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I have given up hopes of getting anything out of @Sanji Himura. I will, however, give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that if he has something, then he either hasn't understood it or doesn't know how to present it. In that case, it's hard to hold it against him; the documents that I referenced - lesson plans, scope and sequence, programming and registers - are really quite complex and are meant to be read together. If you don't know what you are looking for, don't have a syllabus document to help you, or don't know how the documents fit together, it can be very difficult to make sense of them. If nothing else, he should at least post whatever he has because then I can read them and actually tell you what they say.

But his repeated refusal to so much as acknowledge the requests for evidence is extremely rude, especially given that he has posted in this thread since those requests were made. If he doesn't have any evidence of his claims, then he should admit his error.
 
Dennisch
Mexico are now willing to send El Chapo to the USA to see if they can keep him behind bars.
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Apparently his re-capture was facilitated by his wish to have a biopic made of his life. To that end he contacted producers and was interviewed by Rolling Stone. BBC.
 

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